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SMALL ADDITION TO THE LOW 2-C

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LoliNeverforlife said:
@Agnaa is absolutely right 2-C low is an infinite 3D multiverse Because it's a new axis beyond the 3 axes.
Click to expand...
“Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.”

The part he is using is referring to High 3A
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system the VS Battles Wiki utilizes to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats and the varying scopes that they can affect or create/destroy. Though Destructive...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
“Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.”

The part he is using is referring to High 3A
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system the VS Battles Wiki utilizes to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats and the varying scopes that they can affect or create/destroy. Though Destructive...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...
know I'm talking about the number of points in a 4D structure. Since one point to another is countless.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Oh while on a good day, I will ignore you, this is not a so good day so yes sure
While there while tons of post or things you said in the thread this one is the perfect example

Post in thread 'BLEACH LOW 2C REMOVAL' https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-low-2c-removal.127041/post-4277195
Click to expand...
And what's wrong with what I said?

Pain_to12 said:
Then akm will be wrong on that aspect then, as destruction of two universes without the entire timeline is still high 3A
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You're trying to tell me you're more knowledgeable on the teiring system than 1 of the founders?
T
Pain_to12 said:
And yhwach was mentioned to be destroying time?
Like I said I really comprehend you guys, dangai was once called a space time so its destruction is low 2c, but for **** sake every universe is a space time its destruction does not have to be low 2c
Click to expand...
Time doesn't need to be mentioned as AKM already clarified why destruction of 2 universes simultaneously grants 2-C and yes every universe is a spacetime but destruction of such depends on context.
 
LoliNeverforlife said:
My fault I put it like H3A in context. sorry for the grammar too my english is bad.
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It is fine.

Now that is out of the way, shouldn’t the Tier High 3A description being a “discrepancy” by @Agnaa been addressed in a different thread? The original purpose of this thread is relating to Tier 2’s clarification and a small potential addition to Tier 2 anyway.
 
Teezar said:
Time doesn't need to be mentioned as AKM already clarified why destruction of 2 universes simultaneously grants 2-C and yes every universe is a spacetime but destruction of such depends on context.
Click to expand...
First, the 2 universes must be confirmed to be causally separated or don't share a timeline or their timeline isn't simultaneous to each other which reading from the bleach removal crt its clear that they are separate from each other and the need for mention of affecting past present future is unnecessary with relevant context about it as a system

on another note

as long as 2 universe is Spatiotemporally separated you will need a range to affect 2 universes including the entirety of their spacetime
because it would be impossible to reach a universe that is spatiotemporally separated if you're only destroying the physical content or a snapshot. your action no matter how infinite it is will still be contained in a single snapshot of that spacetime and at best grants you High 3-A hence to be low 2-C you need to be able to break through all the snapshots and affect the entirety of spacetime.
And to be 2-C you should have enough potency and range to affect 2 universes entirety of spacetime.
there is literally no need for a mention of past present future being destroyed because of the fact that your attack already managed to reach another timeline that is causally separated from one another.

there is nothing wrong imo with the wording for low 2-C but something should be more elaborated on FAQ section and so far staff are slowly applying that strict standard for low 2-C which already happened to alien X and some other so I don't really see the need to complicate it just to add a redundant past present future when it's already obvious and stated in the spacetime (unless you're someone who dwells too much on pedantic and semantics then that is your problem)
 
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TheGreatJedi13 said:
First, the 2 universes must be confirmed to be causally separated or don't share a timeline or their timeline isn't simultaneous to each other which reading from the bleach removal crt its clear that they are separate from each other and the need for mention of affecting past present future is unnecessary with relevant context about it as a system
Click to expand...
Precisely, Thank you.

Yhwach actually qualifies for possibly 2-C.
 
as long as 2 universe is Spatiotemporally separated you will need a range to affect 2 universes including the entirety of their spacetime

This is incorrect. Interdimensional range is really common in fiction; where you can affect other universes with their own time but can't effect everywhere in space-time.

Not all characters who can create portals to other realms have time travel.

because it would be impossible to reach a universe that is spatiotemporally separated if you're only destroying the physical content or a snapshot. your action no matter how infinite it is will still be contained in a single snapshot of that spacetime and at best grants you High 3-A hence to be low 2-C you need to be able to break through all the snapshots and affect the entirety of spacetime.

That's incorrect, the energy required to cross the gap between timelines is unquantifiable, it is not Low 2-C. It's pretty easy to imagine a blast that travels across the spatial dimensions of both universes, the spatial gap between them, but not the temporal axis.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
It is fine.

Now that is out of the way, shouldn’t the Tier High 3A description being a “discrepancy” by @Agnaa been addressed in a different thread? The original purpose of this thread is relating to Tier 2’s clarification and a small potential addition to Tier 2 anyway.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I don't think it will do any good.
 
Agnaa said:
This is incorrect. Interdimensional range is really common in fiction; where you can affect other universes with their own time but can't effect everywhere in space-time.

Not all characters who can create portals to other realms have time travel.
Click to expand...
That is true. but I'm specifically talking more about conventional methods that don't include both portal creations and not having time travel. I'm aware of the Interdimensional range being common in fiction but I'm talking more about someone who is already on low 2-C tiers rather than 3-A or high 3-A on this one. sorry if that was unclear
Agnaa said:
That's incorrect, the energy required to cross the gap between timelines is unquantifiable, it is not Low 2-C. It's pretty easy to imagine a blast that travels across the spatial dimensions of both universes, the spatial gap between them, but not the temporal axis.
Click to expand...
if that is the case unless it was stated that the attack affects also the entirety of spacetime then at best it would only have an interdimensional range?
Guess an explicit statement of affecting spacetime is necessary then. FAQ really do need to be elaborated properly then and high 3-A definition
 
I'm talking more about someone who is already on low 2-C tiers rather than 3-A or high 3-A on this one.

Fair enough. I'd expect characters that are already tier 2 to have lower burden of proof for their feats. If someone's known to have nuked one timeline in its entirety (implying all of time is effected), then threatens to destroy the multiverse, I'd be happy to infer that latter feat as effecting all of time as well.
 
Teezar said:
And what's wrong with what I said?
Click to expand...
Everything
"bleach universe is stated to be a spacetime. So yhwach wanting to destroying it qualifies for possible low 2-C you don't need see past,present and future again since spacetime is already mentioned."

Like literally everything you think and said the reason why he qualifies is because it was called a space time
Teezar said:
You're trying to tell me you're more knowledgeable on the teiring system than 1 of the founders?
T
Click to expand...
Not more knowledgeable but yes AKM can be wrong
Teezar said:
Time doesn't need to be mentioned as AKM already clarified why destruction of 2 universes simultaneously grants 2-C and yes every universe is a spacetime but destruction of such depends on context.
Click to expand...
Destruction of 2 universes without the timelines affected is just High 3A
Agnaa said:
No, 2-C is 2 to 1000 timelines. High 3-A's description literally says it includes feats of destroying infinitely many universes. Destroying 2 universes should not be > destroying infinitely many.
Click to expand...
So if you don't understand what he said here
You can read the tiering page for 2C, where it didn't say universes but specifically "space-time continuums" so yes 2 -1000 space time continuums I.e. timelines.


TheGreatJedi13 said:
First, the 2 universes must be confirmed to be causally separated or don't share a timeline or their timeline isn't simultaneous to each other which reading from the bleach removal crt its clear that they are separate from each other and the need for mention of affecting past present future is unnecessary with relevant context about it as a system

on another note

as long as 2 universe is Spatiotemporally separated you will need a range to affect 2 universes including the entirety of their spacetime
because it would be impossible to reach a universe that is spatiotemporally separated if you're only destroying the physical content or a snapshot. your action no matter how infinite it is will still be contained in a single snapshot of that spacetime and at best grants you High 3-A hence to be low 2-C you need to be able to break through all the snapshots and affect the entirety of spacetime.
And to be 2-C you should have enough potency and range to affect 2 universes entirety of spacetime.
there is literally no need for a mention of past present future being destroyed because of the fact that your attack already managed to reach another timeline that is causally separated from one another.

there is nothing wrong imo with the wording for low 2-C but something should be more elaborated on FAQ section and so far staff are slowly applying that strict standard for low 2-C which already happened to alien X and some other so I don't really see the need to complicate it just to add a redundant past present future when it's already obvious and stated in the spacetime (unless you're someone who dwells too much on pedantic and semantics then that is your problem)
Click to expand...
Some of the things you say is right, while some that are wrong agnaa already addressed
 
Pain_to12 said:
Everything
"bleach universe is stated to be a spacetime. So yhwach wanting to destroying it qualifies for possible low 2-C you don't need see past,present and future again since spacetime is already mentioned."

Like literally everything you think and said the reason why he qualifies is because it was called a space time
Click to expand...
A space-time continuum is a 4D construct and destruction of it grants low 2-C. And I gave example above as AKM already stated destruction of 2 separate space-time continuum grants 2-C and yhwach wanted to destroy dangai which contains 2 other space-time continuum so that's likely 2-C infact.
Pain_to12 said:
Not more knowledgeable but yes AKM can be wrong
Click to expand...
He can be but he isn't especially as his one of the founders of the teiring system itself so he knows what his saying.
 
AKM isn't one of the founders of the tiering system. Our tiering system's based on the Anime Characters Fight wiki, a Russian wiki who DarkLK is a prominent member of. DarkLK brought it over and it was implemented through the help of the staff members and users at the time. I think DontTalkDT was of particular help with this.

The tiering system had a lot of minor revisions over the years, but semi-recently had a major one mainly formed by Ultima, DontTalk, and Aeyu/Dee, debated by many staff members and users, such as myself.
 
Teezar said:
space-time continuum is a 4D construct and destruction of it grants low 2-C. And I gave example above as AKM already stated destruction of 2 separate space-time continuum grants 2-C and yhwach wanted to destroy dangai which contains 2 other space-time continuum so that's likely 2-C infact
Click to expand...
NO
 
Anyway since I'm waiting on the other staff members to say if what Agnaa said should be added to the FAQ, afterwards well I have a lost of CRT to make
 
Agnaa said:
AKM isn't one of the founders of the tiering system. Our tiering system's based on the Anime Characters Fight wiki, a Russian wiki who DarkLK is a prominent member of. DarkLK brought it over and it was implemented through the help of the staff members and users at the time. I think DontTalkDT was of particular help with this.

The tiering system had a lot of minor revisions over the years, but semi-recently had a major one mainly formed by Ultima, DontTalk, and Aeyu/Dee, debated by many staff members and users, such as myself.
Click to expand...
I see.
 
This thread is just a bunch of "no that's too strict" and it's embarrassing.

Damn near nobody here knows what a space-time is and they keep copying and pasting the same arguments of what Low 2-C is.

And I'm stunned that people keep saying that Pain_to12 is trying to "change the standards" when nothing is being changed, this is what it's been
Pain_to12 said:
sigh, it is pointless to argue this with you. this has always been the standard no one is trying to change i just said they should clarify it better

anyway this is derailing as no one is trying to change the standards, you not understanding the standards and not trying to understand it is no one's fault
Click to expand...
Like come on now

All I see is a bunch of stonewalling on the elaboration of "space-time". People keep calling it needlessly strict when they don't even understand the concept for itself, and the only issues with it are
  1. Ohh my verse won't be able to qualify, this is needlessly strict, disagree
  2. Too many verses will get affected, noooo
We even had someone say
Lormac_CC said:
Proposal is ok but way too strict, many verses will be affected, it isn't wrong but just too strict
Click to expand...
Like what?

Unfollowing
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Also space-time has already been called low2C structure in our own Tier System page.
Reiterated by mode above.
I fail to see what we did wrong
Click to expand...
If you don't mind I will tell you what you guys said wrong

  • A space time is of course a low 2c structure
  • any universe is a low 2c construct
  • a destruction of a universe can range from 3A to low 2c

If we are to follow your logic of it is called a space time it means to destroy it would mean that you are destroying it across time even without providing proof. That would mean there wont be a need for 3A or H3A.

What you did wrong is the fact that you don't understand that you only need to be 3A to destroy even a low 2c construct.
 
dont act as if you know better than us

3-A is destruction of a universe, without the context of a space-time continuum being present

Low 2-C is the destruction of a universe with the context of a space time continuum being present

there is literally no need to provide further proof that you are destroying all of time when time itself is a term that encompasses all of time

"proof that you destroyed past, present, and future" is just drabble that makes things more complicated than it should be
 
I don't understand why people don't understand that 2-C is a new axis being added to the 3D structure that would be so representative. affecting finite or infinite 3-A structures is just 3D.

RoZ8l1V.png



a good movie that represents these larger dimensions is interstellar.
 
another thing is that basically everyone here misinterprets why Bleach god tiers are Low 2-C, and it infuriates the shit out of me

its not the "fact" that Yhwach was going to destroy the Bleach universe, because that wasn't his intention to begin with. he has Low 2-C because he has as much power as the Soul King who created the Tier 2 cosmology of Bleach and was simply going to just undo it

He was using the power of the Soul King for an inverse effect compared to Soul King creating the Tier 2 cosmology
 
Scottycj256 said:
another thing is that basically everyone here misinterprets why Bleach god tiers are Low 2-C, and it infuriates the shit out of me

its not the "fact" that Yhwach was going to destroy the Bleach universe, because that wasn't his intention to begin with. he has Low 2-C because he has as much power as the Soul King who created the Tier 2 cosmology of Bleach and was simply going to just undo it

He was using the power of the Soul King for an inverse effect compared to Soul King creating the Tier 2 cosmology
Click to expand...
didn't soul king power just split the universe in 3 though?
 
Scottycj256 said:
dont act as if you know better than us
Click to expand...
i do know better than you specifically
Scottycj256 said:
3-A is destruction of a universe, without the context of a space-time continuum being present

Low 2-C is the destruction of a universe with the context of a space time continuum being present

there is literally no need to provide further proof that you are destroying all of time when time itself is a term that encompasses all of time
Click to expand...
okay so let me ask, is there a proof your said yhwach was destroying the whole space-time continuum?
Scottycj256 said:
"proof that you destroyed past, present, and future" is just drabble that makes things more complicated than it should be
Click to expand...
except that is the standard, space time continuum literally means all of past, present and future of a space, so how is it making it more complicated?
its like saying i am making the a term lets say "key" more complicated by saying that it should be added to definition that "ït is metal and it is used to open a door"

i am not trying to change the standards or complicate it, i am just saying explain it better
Scottycj256 said:
another thing is that basically everyone here misinterprets why Bleach god tiers are Low 2-C, and it infuriates the shit out of me

its not the "fact" that Yhwach was going to destroy the Bleach universe, because that wasn't his intention to begin with. he has Low 2-C because he has as much power as the Soul King who created the Tier 2 cosmology of Bleach and was simply going to just undo it

He was using the power of the Soul King for an inverse effect compared to Soul King creating the Tier 2 cosmology
Click to expand...
lol the soul king is also not a low 2c and none of his feat is low 2c, so dont wory about that
 
the Soul King's power split the universe into 3 universes separated by a separate space-time continuum, that being the dangai.

the fact that Yhwach was going to undo the dangai, which is a separate spacetime continuum, is why he's Low 2-C
 
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