• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

SMALL ADDITION TO THE LOW 2-C

Status
Not open for further replies.
Under same logic, I fail to see why a universe in fiction determined explicitly to be a Spacetime continuum be treated to different standards and be unfairly given 3A upon their destruction.

My problem is this contradiction in logic for both cases. My intention was to demonstrate this exactly...and my request is either we acknowledge this descripency and carry on as it is...by giving cadid reasons on FAQ page for this logical contradiction....or we do something to address this inconsistency in logic.

I thought I made it abundantly clear earlier that if "universe" or any other label is identified to explicitly refer to the entirety of the spacetime continuum and never (or almost never) to any subset of it, then it wouldn't be held to those standards.

That's how cosmological terms tend to work. But "universe" specifically is fairly problematic as, by conventional default usage, it doesn't exclusively refer to the entirety of the spacetime continuum. Which is why one would be far more generous with statements such as "destroyed the timeline", or "destroyed the grabknarb" where "garbknarb" is a consistent cosmological description.
 
Agnaa said:
AKM would be wrong on that, then. Destroying the matter in 2 universes simultaneously is just 3-A, and can be even be calced. High 3-A's description even explicitly mentions destroying infinitely many universes. Wouldn't it be weird for destroying 2 universes to be 2-C, but destroying infinitely many to only be High 3-A?
Click to expand...
It's the reason why beerus and champa are 2-C so you can ask him that. Plus destroying infinite universes is 2A with time being destroyed while destroying an infinite universe is just 3A with no mention of time being destroyed or proof the destruction affected all of time(past,present and future).

But let's be honest we have seen several verses say a character destroyed a space-time continuum but no proof it affected all of time so if it were this way I'm pretty sure 98% of low 2-C verses would be made 3A or High 3A.
 
Agnaa said:
I thought I made it abundantly clear earlier that if "universe" or any other label is identified to explicitly refer to the entirety of the spacetime continuum and never (or almost never) to any subset of it, then it wouldn't be held to those standards.

That's how cosmological terms tend to work. But "universe" specifically is fairly problematic as, by conventional default usage, it doesn't exclusively refer to the entirety of the spacetime continuum. Which is why one would be far more generous with statements such as "destroyed the timeline", or "destroyed the grabknarb" where "garbknarb" is a consistent cosmological description.
Click to expand...
I wish that were true....or maybe it is...but its rarely seen enforced.

My proposal to add the edit will make some positive improvements in this problem is what I feel. It can make people ask more questions in CRTs and with your above mentioned assurance in mind, I feel the verses which deserve low2C will get it more fairly.
Thats all I implore.
 
Teezar said:
But let's be honest we have seen several verses say a character destroyed a space-time continuum but no proof it affected all of time so if it were this way I'm pretty sure 98% of low 2-C verses would be made 3A or High 3A.
Click to expand...
I don't see why you would require extra proof if you are destroying a spacetime continuum.
That feels redundant.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
I don't see why you would require extra proof if you are destroying a spacetime continuum.
That feels redundant.
Click to expand...
you are mixing this up on purpose, read the previous messages
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Their shared feat is 2C...they downscale to low2C individually.
Click to expand...
actually they have tons of justifications, this one is a minor supporting feat the major one is IZ and others, as like it was said on the tiering page,
Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A.
Click to expand...
so yes if you divide a 2C feat by 2, it will still be 2C and low 2c times 2 is not 2C
 
Pain_to12 said:
you are mixing this up on purpose, read the previous messages
Click to expand...
Am I?? Mods themselves say Space-Time Continuum destruction is low2C. I don't see what I did wrong.

Pain_to12 said:
actually they have tons of justifications, this one is a minor supporting feat the major one is IZ and others, as like it was said on the tiering page,
Click to expand...
There are only 3 Tier 2 feats for DBS. IZ, BeerusChampa and Zeno.
Zeno feat is his own....thus we are only left with 2 feats.
IZ is baseline low2C. Beerus is Atleast Low2C for being unquantifiably above baseline low2C...he is almost "2C".
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Am I?? Mods themselves say Space-Time Continuum destruction is low2C. I don't see what I did wrong.

Click to expand...
I said you are mixing this up on purpose, or you are stonewalling, as lots of people have said millions of times that all universe by default is a space time, so destruction of a universe can be 3A or low 2c depending on the context of the destruction
If it was destroyed without the entire time aspect then it is 3A but if it is destroyed with the entire time aspect then it is low 2C.
If it was said that a universe was destroyed without further context then it is safe to assume that he only destroyed the present universe I.e. the universe as it is at the moment, but if it was stated that he destroyed a universe with the entire time, timeline e.t.c., then it is low 2c.

So please stop stonewalling and just read and understand.
Destruction without stating that the past and future was also destroyed =/= low 2c

Destruction with statement or implied that the entire time or timeline was destroyed = low 2c

It's not that hard
And for the last ******* time all universe are a space time, so a verse mentioning a universe is a space time does not mean Jack shit as any three dimensional space with time, is a space time.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
There are only 3 Tier 2 feats for DBS. IZ, BeerusChampa and Zeno.
Zeno feat is his own....thus we are only left with 2 feats.
IZ is baseline low2C. Beerus is Atleast Low2C for being unquantifiably above baseline low2C...he is almost "2C".
Click to expand...
Well I guess you can try upgrading them of they indeed performed a solid 2C feat, anyway it is irrelevant to this thread. Thank you
 
Pain_to12 said:
I said you are mixing this up on purpose, or you are stonewalling, as lots of people have said millions of times that all universe by default is a space time, so destruction of a universe can be 3A or low 2c depending on the context of the destruction
If it was destroyed without the entire time aspect then it is 3A but if it is destroyed with the entire time aspect then it is low 2C.
If it was said that a universe was destroyed without further context then it is safe to assume that he only destroyed the present universe I.e. the universe as it is at the moment, but if it was stated that he destroyed a universe with the entire time, timeline e.t.c., then it is low 2c.

So please stop stonewalling and just read and understand.
Destruction without stating that the past and future was also destroyed =/= low 2c

Destruction with statement or implied that the entire time or timeline was destroyed = low 2c

It's not that hard
And for the last ******* time all universe are a space time, so a verse mentioning a universe is a space time does not mean Jack shit as any three dimensional space with time, is a space time.
Click to expand...
Stop being aggressive towards me when all I have done is defend the two alternate proposals I have made. I fail to find how debating something relevant to the topic is derailing.
I have already acknowledged whatever the hell you have said...and I have already made a proposal to write down in FAQ regarding that.
I have full right to defend my point of view and have a fruitful discussion, thats all I have done.
And stop enforcing your opinions on me, and stop demonizing me.

If anything it is you who has derailed this thread with discussions about Bleach not me.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Stop being aggressive towards me when all I have done is defend the two alternate proposals I have made. I fail to find how debating something relevant to the topic is derailing.
I have already acknowledged whatever the hell you have said...and I have already made a proposal to write down in FAQ regarding that.
I have full right to defend my point of view and have a fruitful discussion, thats all I have done.
And stop enforcing your opinions on me, and stop demonizing me.

If anything it is you who has derailed this thread with discussions about Bleach not me.
Click to expand...
Okay I apologise
But if you have any question open a QnA thread, not here
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Am I?? Mods themselves say Space-Time Continuum destruction is low2C. I don't see what I did wrong.


There are only 3 Tier 2 feats for DBS. IZ, BeerusChampa and Zeno.
Zeno feat is his own....thus we are only left with 2 feats.
IZ is baseline low2C. Beerus is Atleast Low2C for being unquantifiably above baseline low2C...he is almost "2C".
Click to expand...
how is Beerus Low 2-C when the "12 universes" aren't separate space-time continuums?
 
Have there been any new conclusions here since I last checked in?
 
Frey6678 said:
how so? What would destroying the past, present and future be classified as then?
Click to expand...
as they have said, that is already included on the requierments

what this proposal is asking is for characters to have a "i will destroy the past, present and future" statements which is way too strict as 90% of verses do not mention all of that and simply say "space and time" etc.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
as they have said, that is already included on the requierments

what this proposal is asking is for characters to have a "i will destroy the past, present and future" statements which is way too strict as 90% of verses do not mention all of that and simply say "space and time" etc.
Click to expand...
Yes I guess you're right.
 
Frey6678 said:
how so? What would destroying the past, present and future be classified as then?
Click to expand...
Destroying time = destroying Past present and future. Adding a note about "you need to destroy Past, present and future" is unnecessary. Why ? Read through this thread.

Basically it is saying "if you eat food and live you don't actually eat it unless you can prove you properly chew it with your incisors, molars and premolars, and you'll have to prove the food went straight into your stomach"

Too much unnecessary and most importantly strict.
 
Antvasima said:
Have there been any new conclusions here since I last checked in?
Click to expand...
well just agnaa has replied and he is fine with it i guess, but i am waiting for others too.
as i linked the thread in which most members did not even understand the low 2c requirement
Frey6678 said:
So what's this? Will the requirements for Low 2-C change now?
Click to expand...
Arc7Kuroi said:
No, at the moment staff consensus is rejection of the proposal.
Click to expand...
for the record i am not trying to change the standard, i am just trying add notes to clarify it better but well half of the staffs think it will be redundant since a wiki page is already linked, but then no one reads that linked page ever
Frey6678 said:
What would affecting the past, present and future be then?
Click to expand...
still low 2c
Teezar said:
Yes they are and it still grants 2-C.
Click to expand...
they have at least low 2c on their profiles not 2c
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
as they have said, that is already included on the requierments

what this proposal is asking is for characters to have a "i will destroy the past, present and future" statements which is way too strict as 90% of verses do not mention all of that and simply say "space and time" etc.
Click to expand...
i am not asking for it as that is already the requirement that is what "space time continuum means, cant any one of you at least read and comprehend this?? this is why i made this a staff thread to avoid things like this
read and understand
LordGriffin1000 said:
I agree with adding the whole "past, present, and future" thing to either the Tiering System page or the FAQ page, whichever majority decides. This is something that needs to be done so we won't have any confusion regarding why a Low 2-C character got downgraded to 3-A or High 3-A despite destroying "space and time" without any further elaboration.
Click to expand...
DontTalkDT said:
"Spacetime continuum" in the explanation already has a link that explains what spacetime means. Isn't that enough?
Click to expand...
Ogbunabali said:
Seems redundant?

Especially since it says the same thing in the sentence prior to the new addition.
Click to expand...
AKM sama said:
I remember someone also made a thread about it earlier. A spacetime continuum has always meant all of space and all of time. When you are destroying a spacetime continuum, you are destroying all of time as well, i.e. the past, present and future of the universe. The conclusion of the last thread was that we already follow these rules on the books, but we have been lenient with enforcing it in practice (which needs to be taken care of).
Click to expand...
AKM sama said:
Every universe by default is a space time continuum though, even if nothing is said about it. It doesn't need to be defined as such. It's destruction is only 3-A by default, unless proof of time being destroyed is also there (it being called a space-time continuum in the same sentence that talks about its destruction would probably count as evidence in that case but it also depends on context). I don't see a problem with that.
Click to expand...
KingPin0422 said:
A spacetime continuum, by its definition, includes all of space and all of time. Space definitionally encompasses up/down, left/right, and forward/backward, and time definitionally encompasses the past, present, and future. There can be more directions than three spatial and one temporal, but the point is, the past-present-future of the universe is already covered under the spacetime continuum. No need to spell out something that should be obvious to most of our users.
Click to expand...
So as you can see, none of them said the standards is not destruction of the entire "space-time continuum" but that adding that was meant by space time continuum is "past, present and future of a space-time" is redundant which i agree, since space-time continuum already mean all of the past, present and future of a particular space. but what do we do when majority dont know that? we add a little note. and please read the OP i am not trying to change the standards.


With that said i am referring to everyone now, i am not trying to change the standards, as this is already the standards, i am just saying that we should give our members that what we mean by "Space-time continuum" is "past, present and future" of a certain space-time or universe. and if how people already argued in this thread did not convince you that most members dont know what was meant by space-time continuum in the low 2C section, i beg of you to please go through this thread
 
Scottycj256 said:
basically meaning this thread is completely pointless since its trying to make semantics about the tier rating needlessly complex
Click to expand...
Scottycj256 said:
which is something we ALREADY COVERED in the Bleach downgrade thread that got rejected

Jesus ******* Christ stop
Click to expand...
From a Wiki accepted POV: Next time you post in this thread without permission or say something provoking, I will report you

Now from my own personal POV: Stfu and learn to read and stop acting like a kid maybe you are but that does not give you the liberty to act like one every ******* time.
As I am sure.you cant even process a single thing said here other than it will downgrade my fav verse
And No this thread is not irrelevant cause there are kids like you out there who don't understand that a universe been called a space-time is nothing special as a universe is a space time and destruction of the said universe can be low 2c or 3A, and whether this thread passes or not like I already said but since you can't ******* read you wont know that, i am not trying to change the standards, as this is already the standard I am just saying it should be explained better cause people like you will never understand that "space-time continuum" means "past, present and future of a space-time " as seen when you argued that yhwach destroying the universe which was once called a space time 100 chapters prior means he was also destroying the whole space time continuum. Since it is like this by your logic anyone destroying any universe or dimension should be low 2C as a universe is always a space-time.
So please stop been dull as it is derailing
And for the last ******* time I am not trying to change the standards read the damn OP already
 
A space-time continuum would be like that, wouldn't it?

KOjgwEx.jpg
xnnlImk.jpg
 
Lormac_CC said:
Proposal is ok but way too strict, many verses will be affected, it isn't wrong but just too strict
Click to expand...
This is the current standard I am not changing anything
Did you guys not read the OP?
I am not changing anything just saying we should define what we meant by space-time continuum
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
as they have said, that is already included on the requierments

what this proposal is asking is for characters to have a "i will destroy the past, present and future" statements which is way too strict as 90% of verses do not mention all of that and simply say "space and time" etc.
Click to expand...
I suggested something different than that;
If that's what you're worried about, the wording would need to get across something like "Just because a series has a multiverse that contains multiple spacetimes, does not mean that the destruction of it is necessarily tier 2, as each universe could simply have its contents destroyed at one point in time, without affecting the past and future."
Click to expand...
And the OP agreed with that.

But now I've found out that AKM and DT disagree with that, so I'll be talking to them about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Wankbreaker
  • Locked
Tier 2 hotfix.
Replies
25
Views
3K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Goshtama
Low 2-C | Finite or Infinite Timelines?
Replies
1
Views
900
Richard5128pm
Richard5128pm
Reiner04
  • Locked
Time dimension standard elaboration and a bit of change (whatever guess yourself)
2 3
Replies
83
Views
10K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Ikhvagracia
Low 1-C Mikumoverse
Replies
2
Views
582
Miril
Miril
MightyFrogBeyond
How to Keep infinite branching timelines as Low 2-C??
Replies
2
Views
280
MightyFrogBeyond
MightyFrogBeyond
Back
Top