Skinner returns for a rematch

[Buttersamuri]

Alrighty. This fight had been done before. But both have gotten different updates in skill, power, and other such things. As well, the reasons before had a few issues. So a quick rematch to discuss it with new details.

Speed is equal

Both start in range

That's all, who wins?

Principal Skinner:

Chelshia:

Inconclusive/Draw:

 

[Jackythejack]

This feels like it plays out a similar way imo. A lot of my points from previously seem to still stand, just now Chel has better AP to back it up.

 

[GoCommitDi]

do homer instead

Jk don't

 

[Buttersamuri]

Well. Some of the points don't work well anymore. Or as well. Specifically, range, Skill, and experience that I currently recall. Definitely not more experienced, not more skilled, and range still works. But is far more capable of dodging. But Chel is also a lot stronger now. So the fights got difference

 

[Jackythejack]

I feel like you can afford to not start them at range tbh but eh. Chel has ways of leaving a gap in between the two of them. Chel has higher stamina, higher range and way to really abuse it, some good versatility, and a way to just not let Skinner hurt her at all. Skill was never really an argument I made though tbf.

Chel has fought smarter opponents and those with more experience than her so again, eh?

the original thread was special because now you never agree with me on anything

 

[Jackythejack]

Also caught me at a bad time unfortunately I do have to sleep soon

 

[Buttersamuri]

I kinda have been doing that sub consciously on my fight threads. Her higher range is higher. But not so much higher, and not her preference to use. The game more is about melee. She does have her way of avoiding damage. But enough skill could handle it. As well, Skinners smart enough to know to pay attention to the giant rock arm. Which as I've brought up before. Is sort of a red flag to where the worst damage will come from.

The PP argument is right and wrong. (The one from before) It wouldn't work on her rock arm, but he strikes the neck/shoulder area on a screen. And other pressure points he knows or would know would use the head or body. Not arms. Plus LS is easily able to restrain now.

Chel has fought smart opponents in the sense of book/building smart. Nobody who is combat smarter. And you know why the experience point is mute. We already have talked about that more than once. Her experience wasn't in combat at all. Where Skinners got years of service in his background, and fighting shown these days.

I mean, with more context I wouldn't have agreed

And this threads been out for a while. so you caught this thread at a bad time

But alrighty.

 

[Jackythejack]

Nah I'd say Ellena was pretty battle smart considering she's never lost a battle before and Mimi is pretty smart in apppying her magic which is a subset of combat. Skinner might've been in the military but that can only get one so far and we don't know how well he excelled in it, to my knowledge? Not everyone in the military is incredibly skilled, not to diss the military. I'm just saying without concrete feats it's hard to judge.

also if still think Chel would abuse her range if she knows her opponent has none, which is obvious from looking as Skinner. The game isn't necessarily revolving around melee, and in fact the saucy shot is one of the best tools in her disposal so there's no reason why she wouldn't just abuse it. LS was able to restrain before was it not? I think transforming into her chest form would help considerably with the whole being grabbed thing, but eh.

also to further the military point, well, my uncle served in Iraq for a while. Not to disrespect him but he doesn't seem like the peak of fighting prowess. Depends on which wars they're in and what they amounted to in them but I still don't think being in the military automatically equals being incredibly skilled.

 

[Jackythejack]

Gonna slep now

 

[Jackythejack]

Actually one quick question. What skill feats does he show on screen. Don't care about backstory just tell me what we've see

 

[Buttersamuri]

Fighter with Bart and matching him blow for blow is probably the most notable one since Bart's got the most knowledge in fighting aside from one time characters like that agent, or homer himself. Backstory does matter as we even see flashes to the past of him fighting as a soldier. So we aren't gonna just ignore that and pretend it didn't happen. It's not like it's vague about it. We get plenty of flash backs to it, as well it's very consistent in his character.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Never lost a battle doesn't amount to Too much without the context. We can't assume that's automatically better than a General sergeant in the army who is capable of standing in one on one combat with Bart, who's knows several martial arts, mixed martial arts and boxing I believe, karate, and other stuff I'm likely missing. Like the special agent teaching Bart how to fight. And The Mimi thing has already been debunked as being actual skill. It was random, her experience didn't suggest or say she used her magic in combat, simply that she taught it and knew about it well. But never in her years had shown or suggested she used it in combat. We know Skinner was a good one. He was a sergeant. The man even was able to go back and lead squads by himself the moment he got there. They don't hand that to any rookie who doesn't know what they are doing. He definitely was a good soldier. And the fact he stands against bart in combat who actually displays a lot of martial arts skills and knowledge on screen, plus the stuff stated such as Mastering 6 martial arts while at military camp. We can say Skinners more skilled, and he was likely a good soldier.

That's an I Think argument with no real arguments to back it up. The game is centered more around melee combat. Not range. Using range is an option. But considering how slow range is, and how the game is made, melee combat is what's intended. She just has the capability of fighting at range. Isn't even like a Mario game where Mario's fire balls come out when he shoots. She has to charge to shoot. So yea. The games more about melee, and she is more likely to fight with melee. She just has the capability of using range weapons. But that doesn't mean she is going to just sit back and snipe from a distance. Saying you think she would doesn't make it true. Before hand I don't think it was s good option since she was superhuman. Which meant even at Class 1, she wasn't far off. Now He absolutely pretzels her if he wants to. And even as a chest. He still is able to restrain that. Even the sheer weight of the chest wouldn't stop him. He could easily lift it up if needed.

And yet he still shows to have skill. And even goes back to the military at one point in the show, fought with Bart, And talks about his years in Vietnam. There is no way a man is in war that long, gets sergeant position, and isn't skilled. Especially since he shows he is skilled literally on screen

 

[Jackythejack]

Didn't even say good night smh.

cant believe how mean you are

 

[The_Impress]

Chel has better abilities, more variety, AP advantage and sufficient enough confidence with her attacks, voting her.

 

[Buttersamuri]

She doesn't have the AP advantage

 

[The_Impress]

Her berserk mode is a different tier mate. I'm referring to that

 

[Buttersamuri]

Jacky has noted in multiple threads that's not something she likely would do. Seems like it's a more rare thing or something that's a last resort. Likely due to the double damage she takes.

And I'm starting to question how Standard this form actually is. Looking at it, it doesn't seem like she can swap into it on the fly.

 

[Jackythejack]

I don't say it's not something she wouldn't do. I just say it's not a requirement for her. A lot of the things Chel does is just because she feels like it anyways.

and it's hard to qualify how easy to use it is outside if game mechanics

 

[Buttersamuri]

You've made note specifically that she isn't too likely to use it. I didn't say that she wouldn't use it. Just she isn't likely.

And I'm starting to doubt she can just swap into it at any point. I'm not seeing how

 

[Jackythejack]

What's making you doubt this

 

[Buttersamuri]

The fact I have been watching Gameplay and you can only switch to this mode at the Title Screen. Not mid fight or mid level. Which means her swapping to it mid fight is a big No No.

 

[Jackythejack]

Changing to it via the level selection screen is obviously game mechanics though

 

[Buttersamuri]

That's still a no no. She can't do it mid fight or mid level. She doesn't show she can. Doing it pre to every level means she either starts with it, or doesn't. She can't hope into it at any time. Also, I'm only seeing you able to choose this mode on the title screen. Not the level map. Regardless to that. It's still a Not usable. She starts with it, or she doesn't have it. It isn't both.

 

[Jackythejack]

You can't do anything on the title screen dude the hell are you talking about. Choosing it on the level screen is clearly game mechanics and it's literally like, a costume?? It's stupid to say she can't get into it simply because game is game.

 

[The_Impress]

No, that's headcanon in your part, Butters, nothing implies that is canonically how she accesses it.

Don't downplay like that dude... this is legit feeling like a spite thread...

 

[Buttersamuri]

The head cannon is saying she can swap into it when she literally can't inside the level. When you play the level, you either have it on, or you don't have it. Not you have it, and you can switch while playing the level. You can't do that.

Us not knowing how she does it actually worsens your case cause the burden of evidence is you to prove she can. All we know is at no point in the level can she actually suddenly swap into it. In between levels has time changes. We don't know what happens. That's the only time she can do it. The area outside of the level you play doesn't suddenly stop existing. Choosing levels is game mechanic sure, but doing from level to level, there still ground that exists between them. You just don't play on them.

 

[Jackythejack]

Where the bell are you getting the idea that there are time changes?

 

[The_Impress]

Not really, the burden of proof is entirely on you as nothing within reasonable doubt provides she can't.

Also you're literally explaining game mechanics here tbh.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Honestly I had more to say. But wiki destroyed my comment. So I'll just sum this up.

No. The burden is on you. The proof against it is the fact she never displays switching mid level or fight. She is not capable of doing. It's not something you can activate while on a level.

Regardless. I'll make a CTR knit to separate them into keys. The argument can continue there.

 

[Jackythejack]

Chel still probably wins gonna be real with you