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Sinbad Vs Kaido
- Thread starter OriginFox
- Start date
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- Tags
- kaido magi one piece sinbad (magi)
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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That's only for future sight which Kaido doesn't have, he doesn't resist the precog Kaido could use or the other abilities granted from observation haki.
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- Thread starter
- #9
Observation haki that Kaido has seems like a combo of analytical prediction + enhanced senses. What other things does observation haki provide that could be a threat to Sinbad?
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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Non future sight versions of precognition work by letting the user know their opponent's next actions by reading their emotions/mind.
Kaido should be capable of that alongside the enhanced senses listed on the page, instinctive reactions etc.
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Then it won't work since Sinbad is already half fallen into despair. This means that Sinbad's rukh is black and is separate from the regular flow of rukh. Fallens are unaffected by Sinbad rewriting the rukh which affects the Mind, soul, and fate.
Instinctive reaction shouldn't be a problem for AoE attacks for other haxs
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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Nothing you said proves that reading someone's emotions like with observation won't work.
Yeah and Kaido has no hax or resistances to deal with that, so this is a stomp
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Kaido has 5x AP and he can boost this with Advanced Haoshoku, Armament and his Devil Fruit. Kaido can boost speed with Hybrid form and has Kenbunshoku Haki to guarantee him sufficient evasion of enemy attacks by predicting them. Kaido is also used to taking internal blows at a potency well above what Sinbad is capable of generating with Magoi. All of this adds up to result in almost absolute security for Kaido from Sinbad's physical attacks. Also, a great lethality of his attacks, which Sinbad would not have been aware of (Differently, Kaido would know the AP difference between them, due to Kenbunshoku notifying him about the opponent's strength).
Sinbad never starts his battles with a specific Djinn, however he is more likely to lead with Baal, especially without any knowledge, he tends to bet on its massive attack power. It is logical to say that Sinbad, after noticing the futility of his blows due to the difference in AP of the two, would immediately try to use a hax (That's of course after trying another stronger move, like his Maximum Magic, as was against The Medium), as a mind control, as this is the only effective way he has in his arsenal to negatively affect Kaido.
The problem for Sinbad's victory lies in two facts: Kaido is superior in all attributes, and Sinbad can't use more than 1 Djinn at once. Kaido wouldn't just stand by and receive Sinbad's attacks (As much as he tends to do this in-character), there would come a time when Kaido would just take his Kanabō and finish the opponent, and that would probably be before Sinbad become disappointed for his inability to win by violence and try to attack the mind (Which would take a whole process like: Deactivate Baal > Activate Zepar > Close in > Hit Kaido with sound waves > Finally control the mind); judging by the massive AP difference, he wouldn't need more than three attacks to defeat Sinbad and honestly, he wouldn't have a problem hitting him, not only for his range but also for his precog.
Voting for Kaido.
Sinbad never starts his battles with a specific Djinn, however he is more likely to lead with Baal, especially without any knowledge, he tends to bet on its massive attack power. It is logical to say that Sinbad, after noticing the futility of his blows due to the difference in AP of the two, would immediately try to use a hax (That's of course after trying another stronger move, like his Maximum Magic, as was against The Medium), as a mind control, as this is the only effective way he has in his arsenal to negatively affect Kaido.
The problem for Sinbad's victory lies in two facts: Kaido is superior in all attributes, and Sinbad can't use more than 1 Djinn at once. Kaido wouldn't just stand by and receive Sinbad's attacks (As much as he tends to do this in-character), there would come a time when Kaido would just take his Kanabō and finish the opponent, and that would probably be before Sinbad become disappointed for his inability to win by violence and try to attack the mind (Which would take a whole process like: Deactivate Baal > Activate Zepar > Close in > Hit Kaido with sound waves > Finally control the mind); judging by the massive AP difference, he wouldn't need more than three attacks to defeat Sinbad and honestly, he wouldn't have a problem hitting him, not only for his range but also for his precog.
Voting for Kaido.
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Also for this he either starts with Baal or with Focalor. With Baal he can counter Kaido's boro breath, but in close range he uses Focalor, which he can use to redirect attacks and counter with winds. It won't take much to realize he has a massive disadvantage in AP, and resort to hax
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Um... Doesn't kaido just reduce Sinbad to ash?
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With what?
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Sin doesn't need to deactivate an equip to turn on the next one- against Kougyoku he went from Focalor to Zepar without reverting, I think. He still has to ACTIVELY summon them by calling them on, though.
Acausality 4 doesn't resist Kenbunshoku. Kenbunshoku isn't the usual "future seeing" like Katakuri or Shyrley. BUT that doesn't change much here to begin with.
Doesn't Kid Sinbad's casual "Barq" blast quantify at near country level? "Barq" isn't like Bararaq Saiqa or Inqerad Saiqa and can be spammed without much Magoi being spent.
Sinbad Barq spams until Kaido's fried fish. But if Kaido gets close enough to tap Sinbad in any of his Djinns, Sinbad's getting cooked. Kaido can switch from human to hybrid and go from> invisible air slashes, boro breath, to Kanabo-based advanced conqueror's techniques in a snap, while Sinbad has to actively summon another equip rather than use multiple abilities at once. He has AOE as well with DT and DT demolition Breath.
It's in character for Sinbad to go with BAAL for his offensive abilities (as seen against the Medium, and against Ithnan.) It could go either way.
I don't see speed equalized, so if Sinbad's FTL rating is higher than Kaido's, then he should be able to avoid Kaido's closer range attacks- which is integral to avoid Advanced Conqueror's and armament based attaks that close the X5 gap if not go over it.
Both use lightning, wind, flight- Kaido has regen advantage and the lack of need to switch out of a form to use techniques. Sinbad is far more limited in what he can use in one go. Kenbunshoku deals with Sinbad's speed/attacks because of it being unaffected by Sinbad's acausality-
Voting Kaido. Too many things stacked against Sin unless I'm missing something.
Rez
He/Him- 4,778
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What about sin's mind hax
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Kaido's Kenbunshoku and the fact that he has flight as well and can close the distance. That's what I took into account right after considering "Sin spams barq"
I re-read the entirety of Magi last week and I don't recall a single instance outside of Kougyoku where he used them. I won't make the assumption that he can against anyone as strong as himself, or someone with senses as high as Kaido's. Kougyoku and Kaido are VASTLY different.
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I still have Sinbad No Bouken to read, though- If he used it against a far stronger character with high senses or the like, then I don't know. The best you can scale Kaido's kenbunshoku offf of without assuming it's Luffy tier is old WB, who could intercept Ace via his killing intent while he was ASLEEP. No reason Kaido's should be any lower when it's far better than a WB who couldn't catch Squardo's cheap shot.
As far as I read, Zepar's sound ability is likened to an "order" that forces the opponent to sleep. It's very much so LIKE Conqueror's ability that KO's you with a wave if your will is lesser.
The mind CONTROL bit is what's let hanging. On one hand, even if Kaido's senses are controlled, Kenbunshoku would still detect danger and snap him out of it, or even allow him to fight without the rest of his senses. On the other hand-- Sinbad can just have Mind Hax that ignore everything ever because Sinbad being broken is nothing new. Either he used it on her when she was knocked out, or the scream working is what allows Zepar to enter your mind. It's a vague ability.
He's not a King Vessel like Alibaba who can hold up extreme magic for a while.
As far as I read, Zepar's sound ability is likened to an "order" that forces the opponent to sleep. It's very much so LIKE Conqueror's ability that KO's you with a wave if your will is lesser.
The mind CONTROL bit is what's let hanging. On one hand, even if Kaido's senses are controlled, Kenbunshoku would still detect danger and snap him out of it, or even allow him to fight without the rest of his senses. On the other hand-- Sinbad can just have Mind Hax that ignore everything ever because Sinbad being broken is nothing new. Either he used it on her when she was knocked out, or the scream working is what allows Zepar to enter your mind. It's a vague ability.
Extreme Magic can't be "spammed". It can only be used once then bye bye Magoi. He only ever used it for Inqerad Saiqa then the fight was done, but as far as the implication goes, it's the limit of one's Magoi.
He's not a King Vessel like Alibaba who can hold up extreme magic for a while.
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Rez
He/Him- 4,778
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Hax has nothing to do with strength
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I never said strength. I said mind defenses.
Kaido's senses are at least on old WB's if not better, and the latter can senses danger (and react to it) while in deep sleep. There is no way to know HOW Zepar was implanted in Kougyoku, but if it was during the scream attack, then that shouldn't work on Kaido.
The scream is a radius thing, and according to Sinbad it has effect on "EVERYONE AROUND" him. Everyone there who was KO'd with the exception of the target, was fodder. Base Alibaba flinched, but he was conscious after it.
If the assumption is Zepar's scream>implants Zepar if the target is KO'd
Then Zepar's mind hax wouldn't work on Kaido.
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Quoting Sinbad, he says: "I told her mind to 'Sleep'. This is Zepar's power." But later on it's revealed that he uses sound waves to send his Rukh into others' mind to control them. The only time Sin did that was when Zepar's command worked on Kougyoku via the scream, which we know at that same moment didn't work on Alibaba either.
So A: Alibaba's got better fortitude than Kougyoku, which means Kaido DEFINITELY DOES both through FAR higher senses and CoC that negates other CoC, which do literally the exact same thing Zepar does via forcing their will onto another's instead of Sound.
Or B: Alibaba has an unnamed ability which is the far bigger reach since nothing was ever noted about that
If the scream doesn't work on Kaido, neither do the mind hax because they require the scream to work first.
So A: Alibaba's got better fortitude than Kougyoku, which means Kaido DEFINITELY DOES both through FAR higher senses and CoC that negates other CoC, which do literally the exact same thing Zepar does via forcing their will onto another's instead of Sound.
Or B: Alibaba has an unnamed ability which is the far bigger reach since nothing was ever noted about that
If the scream doesn't work on Kaido, neither do the mind hax because they require the scream to work first.
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Proof?
Rez
He/Him- 4,778
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It works via sending Rukh into their body so nope strength has nothing to do with it. Also alibaba and other's who have somewhat fallen to depravity resists mind manip.
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Kenbunshoku users should not have precognition, precognition is seeing the future, kenbunshoku users do not see the future, they predict it. They should have analytical prediction instead.
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We know he uses Kenbunshoku, no? Or was it confirmed that he only has CoC and Busoshoku? If he uses Kenbunshoku and it's below a WB that couldn't predict an attack from Squardo, then you're saying WB, who knew Luffy's attack was going to be dangerous and actively dodged, even warranting Luffy to say "Why did you dodge? You knew it'd hurt", somehow has less sensory than WB, then that's you. Kaido isn't going to GUESS Luffy can suddenly bypass his dura and hurt him when he's been taking every attack head on beforehand.
Was Alibaba fallen into depravity then?
And it says SPECIFICALLY "HE USES SOUND WAVES TO SEND RUKH into someone's brain."
Again, the initial command has to first work on you, like it did on Kougyoku. And BEYOND Kougyoku and other characters that don't compare to Sinbad himself, it worked on nobody. If you wanna NLF it, then feel free.
Sin's only definitive wincons are range spam and possibly higher speed. x5 AP advantage isn't enough to take Kaido down, while Kaido can amp his AP higher with Kenbunshoku, and much higher with Haoshoku coating to close the gap and outright pass it.
Rez
He/Him- 4,778
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Nothing here implies it can be resisted via having good senses. That's exactly how genjutsu works too.
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Some Kenbunshoku users have analytical prediction. That's low tier Kenbunshoku that predicts a course of action. Higher Kenbunshoku ranges from >foreseeing your action based on your emotion
To >Flat out future seeing like Katakuri
To>Luffy's future seeing where he foresees your intent on Katakuri's level, but only limited to the one's he's fighting, not everything around like Kata.
I'mma assume you either don't read OP or ignored the Haki page entirely to call ALL of Kenbunshoku analytical prediction.
Rez
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how are analytical prediction and good senses gonna stop having your brain being directly controlled? Kaido doesn't resist mind hax
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I read all of one piece.
I'm talking about the low tiers, the only ones who have true precognition are luffy and katakuri levels of future sight and that's all because those two are the only ones who've displayed it. The rest should only have analytical prediction.
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Nothing implies it works on anyone beyond characters Sinbad can outright stomp either. It's a COMMAND. Characters who can resist CoC should resist the scream itself.
If you say it flat out works then there's no evidence, and if I say it can be negged, there's no evidence either.
It's out of character to begin with since Sinbad considers it classless and wouldn't use it unless he wants to actively control your mind. He always starts off via offense by Focalor or Baal.
WB can sense danger while asleep. Worn out exhausted and starving Luffy could still sense and hear Nami while in the world of books, which as far as we know is hypnosis. (Since it only targetted Luffy, not everyone else's sight like a typical illusion)
If I agree with the no limits fallacy of "he can do it trust me", then even if under mind control Kaido would STILL sense Sinbad regardless, and the danger of his attacks.
But I'm still on the stance that Zepar's scream isn't even going through Kaido because of his will. Zepar literally ONLY WORKED ON THOSE MENTALLY VULNERABLE. Or unnamed fodder.
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It isn't ENTIRELY, though. Luffy's first taste of baseline Kenbunshoku was literally foreseeing his arms getting cut off. That isn't "prediction", that's full on precognition. (even if for an instant)
Rez
He/Him- 4,778
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That's not how hax is treated here unless the said hax has specifically show a certain weakness it will work on anyone without a resistance. Also how is kaido's will gonna stop him from hearing?
