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Should there be separate Mario pages?

Pls could we just do (Base|Super Mario Galaxy series|Paper Mario series) and add tabbers to mario's profile for paper instead of arguing about it over and over
 
Ryukama said:
@Dino even if Paper Mario has experienced events as their counterparts, I believe Ever is saying that Paper Jam supports that they are different entities. Also the main factor for separate Goku pages is that even though they are part of the same canon, they exist within different series, have far too many stats, vastly differing stats, and abilities to the point where a single page to neatly have. On top of regular Dragon Ball Goku being notable enough with his own stats and being put in VS matches separately. Putting DB Goku is a separate page does not confuse anyone canon wise or create the notion they are non canon from each other. Plus the fact that not only does Paper Mario have different powers than regular Mario not just stats, but also there are to be more stats for the other Paper Mario games, which will fill up a singular page even further.
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That's like saying Bowser and Dry Bowser are seperate entities just because of Mario Party: Island Tour. In other words, no. Co-existence of alter egos in the Mario verse are quite common, it's absurd to assume they are different characters altogether just because Nintendo wants to experiment with gameplay or expand the roster. I already told you that the lack of refrences or exclusive events in the past games in Paper Jam as well as the ties in the Paper Mario series has in other game prior makes claim invalid to support. Again, Mario is not an anime character. Goku's stats are reliant on progression as he grow both physically and as a character. Mario, however, has no such storytelling and his stats are reliant solely based on what happen in the games, taking the best one out of the bunch. Mario's powers in the PM series are hardly any different. He jumps, hammers, and ground pounds like in every other game. The sole difference are the artifacts he used which aren't his powers to begin with. There's nothing clutter about Mario's page. 3 categories and you're done. But instead, we have to use the mutiple pages approach as if it's the LOZ series. Poor solution as it makes the page for the Mario Bros all over the place, confusing the canon of the verse when it's confirmed the series has none, and disorganised. Irony.
 
First of all I wasn't saying that I believe thy are separate entities (if you read my comments you can see I think the contrary) just explaining that is where he was going with it. Also Goku's stats being reliant on progression is really irrelevant to this discussion. The point is that despite being within the same continuity, Teen Goku has different stats, different abilities, notability on his own with VS debates and adding him on one page is would add too much clutter. And nobody gets confused or thinks these two have a separate continuity. Also Paper Mario is getting more categories and stats for his other games, so it isn't as simple as "3 categories."
 
Paper Mario is a separate character from the original Mario, confirmed in Paper Jam... but there are references in Paper Mario 2 (Super Mario World is mentioned for example), but we don't know HOW those events played out considering that the verse has different "physics".

So, I agree with Ryu.
 
Ryukama said:
First of all I wasn't saying that I believe thy are separate entities (if you read my comments you can see I think the contrary) just explaining that is where he was going with it. Also Goku's stats being reliant on progression is really irrelevant to this discussion. The point is that despite being within the same continuity, Teen Goku has different stats, different abilities, notability on his own with VS debates and adding him on one page is would add too much clutter. And nobody gets confused or thinks these two have a separate continuity. Also Paper Mario is getting more categories and stats for his other games, so it isn't as simple as "3 categories."
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......."And nobody gets confused or thinks these two have a separate continuity." And yet looked at the comment right after you said that. The fact the pages never implied this futhers prove my point.You guys brought up Goku to begin with, I was explaining why he has several categories into the point he needs another page. Mario, however, doesn't need such. The first two PM games involved Planet Level feats and that's solely contributed to the artifacts. There's no "mutiple" categories to begin with. You just have 3 categories and that's it. All you are doing is making things complicated.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
......."And nobody gets confused or thinks these two have a separate continuity." And yet looked at the comment right after you said that. The fact the pages never implied this futhers prove my point.You guys brought up Goku to begin with, I was explaining why he has several categories into the point he needs another page. Mario, however, doesn't need such. The first two PM games involved Planet Level feats and that's solely contributed to the artifacts. There's no "mutiple" categories to begin with. You just have 3 categories and that's it. All you are doing is making things complicated.
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I was referring to in Goku's case the lack of confusion. Yes people mistake them being separate entities virtue of the crossover game, not due to a separate page or lack of a separate page. Adding in a note at the bottom or just reading what is in Paper Mario's description can help clear up some of that confusion. Not only that but once again there isn't just 3 categories. There is Paper Mario, TTYD and the other Paper Mario pages that are planning to be made.
 
@ryu @dino Base|Super Mario Galaxy series|Paper Mario series could we just do that and add tabber photos for paper mario and put them in Mario profile back again? I know you guys have info for the character being seperate continuity or not, but if you think about it its just a one time thing. It's sorta similar to "Sonic Generations" having 2 Sonic's and 2 eggmans. I'm pretty sure that the mario and luigi game will not bring back paper mario into it again. Oh and there is a New paper mario game for the Wii U so be in a lookout for that
 
Ryukama said:
Dino Ranger Black said:
......."And nobody gets confused or thinks these two have a separate continuity." And yet looked at the comment right after you said that. The fact the pages never implied this futhers prove my point.You guys brought up Goku to begin with, I was explaining why he has several categories into the point he needs another page. Mario, however, doesn't need such. The first two PM games involved Planet Level feats and that's solely contributed to the artifacts. There's no "mutiple" categories to begin with. You just have 3 categories and that's it. All you are doing is making things complicated.
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I was referring to in Goku's case the lack of confusion. Yes people mistake them being separate entities virtue of the crossover game, not due to a separate page or lack of a separate page. Adding in a note at the bottom or just reading what is in Paper Mario's description can help clear up some of that confusion. Not only that but once again there isn't just 3 categories. There is Paper Mario, TTYD and the other Paper Mario pages that are planning to be made.
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Which again, is unnecessary because you can just do that in a single page clarifying this. Most people will choose to ignore this lore as seen from above. For so called "mutiple" categories you keep claiming, they both have the same stats barring SPM, which is solely contributed due to artifacts, not Mario's own powers. Sticker Star is hardly brought up or scaled because of the lack of feats that can be quantified and Color Splash will likely be as well going by the gameplay. In other words, you are just wasting pages. Now thanks to you, people are back in being confused in the Mario verse.
 
"Most people will choose to ignore this lore as seen from above." "Now thanks to you, people are back in being confused in the Mario verse."

Uh you know you just contradicted yourself pretty bad right? If you are saying that people were already confused and that they will still ignore clarification, then how did I contribute to further confusion or cause people to "go back to being confused"? Also Scrub, others and I were looking for some other stats for Paper Mario, TTYD, Sticker Start besides the artifacts.
 
Ryukama said:
"Most people will choose to ignore this lore as seen from above." "Now thanks to you, people are back in being confused in the Mario verse."
Uh you know you just contradicted yourself pretty bad right? If you are saying that people were already confused and that they will still ignore clarification, then how did I contribute to further confusion? Also Scrub, others and I were looking for some other stats for Paper Mario, TTYD, Sticker Start besides the artifacts.
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Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was they won't be aware of this detail due to Paper Jam solely existing. All creating a page will do is futher support their incorrect view as they might think the page exist because of the said game, not for expansion. As you can see, several people only support the page because of the game.

Well, you are wasting your time. In the PM series, Mario in base is only Building level with City level durability via Moon launch feat from TTYD, which is no different from his stats in the other series futher proving how redundant making a different page is.
 
@Dino People will always be confused about the Paper Jam thing. Clearly having the same page hasn't helped that case all much. A separate page as long as it is clarified that this is the same won't further confuse, or at least not cause anymore confusion than already exists. And Building Level with City Dura does differ from regular Mario stats. There are also speed stats, stuff from Sticker Star and possibly the next PM game to look into as well.
 
Ryukama said:
@Dino People will always be confused about the Paper Jam thing. Clearly having the same page hasn't helped that case all much. A separate page as long as it is clarified that this is the same won't further confuse, or at least not cause anymore confusion than already exists. And Building Level with City Dura does differ from regular Mario stats. There are also speed stats, stuff from Sticker Star and possibly the next PM game to look into as well.
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Majority are solely support this because of Paper Jam so all this is doing is the opposite. If Paper Jam will always cause this confusion, there's no reason there's no reason to unintentioanlly support this. A singular page is more than enough.

How does it differ? Mario's has Building and City level stats in other games and for speed in the PM, he's only has a Supersonic feat via dodging and outrunning attacks from Boombox. Again, nothing different from other games. And I already told you there's nothing to scale from Sticker Star as the game lacks any feats reliable to scale from. I played the game and watch the walkthrough, so I know. Again, you are just wasting pages and making things complicated. With all this being said Ant, I like to request to unlock the main Mario page. Considering the highest stats Mario gets are from the artfacts he use, the strongest one having it's own page, I'll just be making three categories for the Attack Potency.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
Majority are solely support this because of Paper Jam so all this is doing is the opposite. If Paper Jam will always cause this confusion, there's no reason there's no reason to unintentioanlly support this. A singular page is more than enough.

How does it differ? Mario's has Building and City level stats in other games and for speed in the PM, he's only has a Supersonic feat via dodging and outrunning attacks from Boombox. Again, nothing different from other games. And I already told you there's nothing to scale from Sticker Star as the game lacks any feats reliable to scale from. I played the game and watch the walkthrough, so I know. Again, you are just wasting pages and making things complicated. With all this being said Ant, I like to request to unlock the main Mario page. Considering the highest stats Mario gets are from the artfacts he use, the strongest one having it's own page, I'll just be making three categories for the Attack Potency.
Click to expand...
The only people who were in support of this who mentioned Paper Jam were Ever and 69, with Ever only listing Paper Jam as one of his reasons, not "soley because of it." Also right now Mario is at least Small City Level, likely Island, which differs from Building Level with City dura. On top of Paper Jam, the possible next game and even if there might not be much for Sticker Star we'll at least check first. Also once again I can understand you thinking these pages are unnessesary, but nothing gets further confused canon wise.
 
Paper Mario series is definitely canon. Paper Mario 64 contains a major character development for Bowser (which is a rare thing in the series). Before Paper Mario, Bowser only wanted to take over the MK. In Paper Mario, the Star Spirits think that since Bowser is invincible, he's starting to want more than just this. Then in Paper Mario 2 Bowser complains he can't take over the world. Then in Mario Galaxy and its sequel, Bowser manages to try taking over the world. In a main series game. So, yeah, Paper Mario (and by logic Paper Mario 2 and SPM) is canon.

For Super Mario Galaxy, the universe is destroyed and remade at the end, but that doesn't mean the events were erased (this isn't Sonic '06). In SMG2, everything points at SMG not having happened, but this is only in the English version - other versions don't point at anything, while the Japanese version actually points at SMG HAVING happened.

For The Lost Levels, I guess it doesn't really matter, but in it Mario and Luigi have settled in the Mushroom Kingdom (I assume the fortress you see at the very start of the game is Mario / Luigi's house) so, yeah, it's not an "alternate universe" version of SMB.

For the Mario & Luigi series... well it's obvious Nintendo doesn't ignore it (Baby Peach appearing in Mario Kart, Bowser's punch attacks being back in SMG2) so it being canon wouldn't hurt anything.


Why would any game not be canon anyway ? Aside from games that aren't real stories (Mario Party 2 is a play in Mario Land, Mario Party 6 is a pop-up book based on Mario characters) and the Mario vs DK series (Pauline is Mario's girlfriend in it. Um.), the stories don't cause problems so they have no reason to not be canon (and, again, Paper Mario is actually a major point).

I like talking about mario. :0] but I'm tired. Maybe you two @dino and @ryu and the admins can work something out because this is gonna be a long argument. L8r
 
Ryukama said:
Dino Ranger Black said:
Majority are solely support this because of Paper Jam so all this is doing is the opposite. If Paper Jam will always cause this confusion, there's no reason there's no reason to unintentioanlly support this. A singular page is more than enough.

How does it differ? Mario's has Building and City level stats in other games and for speed in the PM, he's only has a Supersonic feat via dodging and outrunning attacks from Boombox. Again, nothing different from other games. And I already told you there's nothing to scale from Sticker Star as the game lacks any feats reliable to scale from. I played the game and watch the walkthrough, so I know. Again, you are just wasting pages and making things complicated. With all this being said Ant, I like to request to unlock the main Mario page. Considering the highest stats Mario gets are from the artfacts he use, the strongest one having it's own page, I'll just be making three categories for the Attack Potency.
Click to expand...
The only people who were in support of this who mentioned Paper Jam were Ever and 69, with Ever only listing Paper Jam as one of his reasons, not "soley because of it." Also right now Mario is at least Small City Level, likely Island, which differs from Building Level with City dura. On top of Paper Jam, the possible next game and even if there might not be much for Sticker Star we'll at least check first. Also once again I can understand you thinking these pages are unnessesary, but nothing gets further confused canon wise.
Click to expand...
Even the person who made this and you are working with on this thread made the suggestion because Paper Jam. You even explained it twice and people STILL think of fallacy. No matter how you see it, majority are only aboard on this is because of Paper Jam. There's no sugar coating it. That's hardly different from Mario stats, especially when they are overall lower then what Mario displayed in other titles. This will only be an issue if the stats are higher, which they only are via artifacts which one already has a page. I already told you that I played and examined Sticker Star. There's no event or feats we can use to scale the characters because the game lacks it. Why else I haven't made a thread on this?

I have some work to do and finals to study for, which will take alot of my time, so I will be gone for a while. If you are so convinced that creating the page won't cause confusion about the series' continuity and is only serves for organisation, then prove it. I'll let the page stay for now but you must revamp the page and clarify the canon in the Mario series(I suggest calling the page Mario(Paper Mario series) instead). Once I get back however, if the page only supports the incorrect view, I'm making a change and issue a take down. There's no point of mutiple pages for a character to exist when it was never cluttered to begin with and the character is still confirmed to be the same character. Good night.
 
@NotAMarioFan I have a lot of respect for the time you took to write that and support your points, however canonicity isn't really an issue atm. I do agree with waiting until some admins come over to further discuss this.
 
@Dino we were referring to the people who agreed with the thread. Even counting Scrub the majority still doesn't agree with this for Paper Jam. The pages already clarify the canon but if you want it spelled out even further for people then fine. I guess however since the only real current and active opponent of this thread won't be continuing this for now, it is best to not continue this thread until your later return or if any admins have anything to say.

Good luck with your finals m8. Best of wishes.
 
Well, I actually agree with Dino Ranger Black about that having so many Mario pages is quite messy.

Perhaps it would be better to merge them all into one profile, and include a tabber for the header images of how he looked in each game? The movie version should obviously not be included.
 
Also, please stop quoting each other back and forth. It makes the thread unnecessarily long, and harder to read. You can use the "@" sign instead.
 
@Ant Well as it currently is we need Base Mario, Super Mario Galaxy Mario, Super Paper Mario, 64/TTYD Mario, M&L Mario, Manga Mario and SMRPG Mario. I think that is way too much to fit into one profile. Due to their general low quality I think M&L, Manga and SMRPG can be taken out. I believe that two pages isn't quite bad in comparison to one crowded page isn't as bad, but of you and Dino can come up with someway to condense all these stats better it'd be great. I'll transfer stats back if needed.
 
Well, maybe we could simply treat the highest feats from most of them in base (except, I suppose, manga Mario) as regular Mario's statistics, if all of the games are within the same continuity, and add extra keys for power-ups.
 
@Ant Mario has no canon. It's just a collection of games. So in a sense nothing is really "non canon" nor "in the same continuity." The manga page is extremely poor quality with most of its stats not being justified. I think that one should be take off. Perhaps we make 2-B in Mario's base as a "2-B with Pure Hearts". Then Galaxy and M&L. It's not much that I am gungho about a separate page just want something to help with potential clutter and I think 2 slightly less cluttered pages is far better than one really cluttered page. If there is a neatness soultion that doesn't require a separate page I'm glad to hear it.
 
So, does anybody else think that we should delete the Mario Manga, Mario & Luigi, and SMRPG pages?
 
Yea I agree but the manga is still continuing though. The tabbers is what I was trying to get to them two arguing but other than everything else I guess so but the movies idk @Ant
 
@Ant

I do, they're of generally poor quality with virtually no stat justification.
 
Okay then.
 
I have deleted the 3 pages in question.
 
I did not delete the Paper Mario page.
 
So is PM still going to be a thing because I thought it would be a great Idea if we can add a part that explains the star sprits.
 
It depends on what the members here agree upon. I do not think that it is so bad with just two okay quality Mario pages.
 
Yeah 2 pages shouldn't be much of an issue.
 
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