Should pilots of mechs in general scale to the speed of characters they fight against?

[Theuser789]

Making this thread because of this one, it was about an upgrade to Dr.Eggman via piloting machines that can fight against Sonic, I argued he didn't scale simply for piloting those mechs, and he needed feats without them, the opposing side argued otherwise, but due to the lack of set standards about this topic the debate went nowhere. So, would someone who pilots machines scale in reactions to the people they fight against, or do we treat as if it's only a feat for the machine itself and they need their own feats without the mech?

 

[ElixirBlue]

To start with, considering what this is about

Him not scaling relatively would be Dr. Eggman frozen in this fight.

 

[Theuser789]

The Sonic Movie also has Eggman explicitly get amped the moment he started his machine, so the idea of Eggman being frozen while piloting his machines isn't a thing in the series


Even then this is a general thread for people to give their opinions on it, not just "Eggman debate MKII", so don't bring the same topics and let people give their takes on the general concept

 

[ElixirBlue]

Using the movie for any prior interpretation of Eggman is retconing, or, backscaling. It really wasn't a concept in Sonic till Paramount. Its also well known Movies tend to portray weaker versions of characters compare to their source material.

 

[Theuser789]

Doesn't matter, this thread isn't about him, that was an example of the concept in fiction like the link of the Eggman discussion

 

[ElixirBlue]

Yes, but Movie Sonic has its own interpretation of Eggman's piloting. Other continuities, like Archie, still portrays the relatively same speed Mech fights while also having Base Eggman/Robotnik scaling to Sonic's Rage-powered Speed. Game has no explanation to Sonic's speed, other thann he does, and Base Eggman is party character in Sonic Chronicles.

 

[Theuser789]

Even then this is a general thread for people to give their opinions on it, not just "Eggman debate MKII", so don't bring the same topics and let people give their takes on the general concept

 

[Theuser789]

Bump

 

[Shadyboi0]

Unless proven that they get a boosted reaction time,or are unable to react, I think they should.

 

[Confluctor]

Unless it's explicitly stated that their speed and reactions have increased dramatically, yeah why not? They can see and maneuver the mech to fight their opponent, so yeah definitely should scale to it.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Vehicles are pretty much the perfect (IRL) example of why reaction speed =/= travel speed no?

A car can reach speeds of hundreds of mph while certain jets can break the sound barrier yet humans don't get reaction buffs for being able to react at those speeds (Despite traveling far faster than they ever could by themselves) add in the fact Dr Eggman is FAR from an ordinary human and well the writing is on the wall so to speak.

Now that I have a clearer understanding of the CRT that this Q&A started, unless it's explicit that a character(s) reaction is being boosted by the vehicle, equipment, technology, etc they're using we're essentially walking into assumption territory tbh.

 

[Theuser789]

Bump, I would like opinions from some staff members

 

[Theuser789]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Well basically, if he can do any complex motions with the machine, such as, grabbing something fast, he should scale to that fast things speed. Take eggman. If his reaction speed didnt scale to sonic, there would be no way any mech he controls would remotely come close to being a threat to sonic.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Bump

 

[Theuser789]

Bump

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

A car can reach speeds of hundreds of mph while certain jets can break the sound barrier yet humans don't get reaction buffs for being able to react at those speeds (Despite traveling far faster than they ever could by themselves) add in the fact Dr Eggman is FAR from an ordinary human and well the writing is on the wall so to speak.

Just wanted to talk about jets.
Jets have sophisticated sensory, targeting and acquisition systems to aid pilots...along with the fact that dogfights don't happen like normal fights, hell in modern jets dogfight is very rare....most fights happen out of visual range with RADARs. Even dogfights that do happen aren't at all similar to large mechs fistfighting. Planes take very long to turn even at low speed so maneuvering isn't same as in a cqc fight. Not to mention different rules of terrain and mobility for mid air fights.

So the examples don't hold well in comparision I think.

 

[KLOL506]

Just wanted to talk about jets.
Jets have sophisticated sensory, targeting and acquisition systems to aid pilots...along with the fact that dogfights don't happen like normal fights, hell in modern jets dogfight is very rare....most fights happen out of visual range with RADARs. Even dogfights that do happen aren't at all similar to large mechs fistfighting. Planes take very long to turn even at low speed so maneuvering isn't same as in a cqc fight. Not to mention different rules of terrain and mobility for mid air fights.

Pretty much this. Humanoid mechs fistfighting with superfast, superhuman individuals are not at all comparable to aerial maneuvers or car driving. Equalizing them makes no sense, PERIOD.

Mechs on average will perform considerably more complex maneuvers and their pilots would be able to consistently see their superhuman opponents coming at them while remaining at a standstill in order to react to or block their attacks, if Evangelion has anything to say on the matter.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Just wanted to talk about jets.
Jets have sophisticated sensory, targeting and acquisition systems to aid pilots...along with the fact that dogfights don't happen like normal fights, hell in modern jets dogfight is very rare....most fights happen out of visual range with RADARs. Even dogfights that do happen aren't at all similar to large mechs fistfighting. Planes take very long to turn even at low speed so maneuvering isn't same as in a cqc fight. Not to mention different rules of terrain and mobility for mid air fights.

So the examples don't hold well in comparision I think.

Pretty much this. Humanoid mechs fistfighting with superfast, superhuman individuals are not at all comparable to aerial maneuvers or car driving. Equalizing them makes no sense, PERIOD.

Mechs on average will perform considerably more complex maneuvers and their pilots would be able to consistently see their superhuman opponents coming at them while remaining at a standstill in order to react to or block their attacks, if Evangelion has anything to say on the matter.

 

[Teezar]

Making this thread because of this one, it was about an upgrade to Dr.Eggman via piloting machines that can fight against Sonic, I argued he didn't scale simply for piloting those mechs, and he needed feats without them, the opposing side argued otherwise, but due to the lack of set standards about this topic the debate went nowhere. So, would someone who pilots machines scale in reactions to the people they fight against, or do we treat as if it's only a feat for the machine itself and they need their own feats without the mech?

I see such as PIS tbh and it happens in almost all franchise that deals in such.

 

[Urshani]

i agreewith klol and giver

If you try to CQC a MFTL+ monster with Average Human reactions in a MFTL+ mecha you're not gonna hit the monster no matter what.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

i agreewith klol and giver

If you try to CQC a MFTL+ monster with Average Human reactions in a MFTL+ mecha you're not gonna hit the monster no matter what.

yeah that make sense