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Shonen Heroes vs Villiains (3 vs 3)

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Can you prove to me that it's even actually treated this way, or give me a scan that's evidence for it? Cause I'm asking YOU. The one making the claim. Don't just direct me to another place. Defend YOUR point, or say "I dunno, that's just how the cite handles it." After all, if you're gonna use that point, you should understand why it's even true.
 
you are the one that doesn't know how reiatsu crush is handled here .

reiatsu is soul manip , it affect the soul directly as proven by , i don't know , the whole bleach serie ?

if the characther don't resist soul hax to a enough potency as the opponent soul hax ,they are done . that is how it work here
 
Amexim said:
Can you prove to me that it's even actually treated this way, or give me a scan that's evidence for it? Cause I'm asking YOU. The one making the claim. Don't just direct me to another place. Defend YOUR point, or say "I dunno, that's just how the cite handles it." After all, if you're gonna use that point, you should understand why it's even true.
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reiatsu crush never affected any building,for example

it crushes characters with mountain/island level durability,but a mere TABLE doesn't get crushed, or house, or building,you get the point

thats why its a general consensus here ,that Reiatsu Crush affects only souls ,or souls inside vessels (like bodies,or artificial bodies)


BTW i am voting team Villians : Aizen uses KS to make Goku kill both Ichigo and Jotaro,and then Golden Frieza sneaky kills Goku
 
KS wouldn't work on goku. His willpower would break him out of it, as vegeta did with babidi, and babidi has way stronger mind hax than aizen.


Frieza wins. Frieza kills everyone.
 
Well, it seems that the discussion about Reiatsu Crush affecting Goku is done. Aizen still passively kills both Jotaro and DIO.

KS needs to target while Goku is immensely faster, but considering he's in-character he'd do some stupid thing like giving Aizen some time to react for fighting him in base.

KS or not, Aizen's basically immortal here. His Regen is too much for Goku and Ichigo.
 
The Calaca said:
Well, it seems that the discussion about Reiatsu Crush affecting Goku is done. Aizen still passively kills both Jotaro and DIO.
KS needs to target while Goku is immensely faster, but considering he's in-character he'd do some stupid thing like giving Aizen some time to react for fighting him in base.

KS or not, Aizen's basically immortal here. His Regen is too much for Goku and Ichigo.
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You realize that goku can Hakai, right? Current goku is manga goku.
 
I mean, that aint wrong? The manga is further ahead. By like most an entire arc.
 
Amexim said:
Is this Soul Crush or Reiatsu Crush. Because Reiatsu crushing is raw power gap in terms of AP, and Aizen is not AP crushing Goku when they both have Chi/Spiritual Energy based powers. More than enough to equalize. If it's some other type of hax, that's fine, but Reiatsu Crush is an AP gap thing. Plus, if you can survive attacks aiming to erase your soul, you can probably survive massive pressure on it too.
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^This.
 
Dio gets stomped by Ichigo passively

Either way, worst case scenario is Aizen assists Frieza in beating Goku, as Ichigo can't put him down
 
Reiatsu crush isn't AP based, so not really sure why AKM commented "This." Depsite there being multiple threads explaining how Reiatsu Crush works. It's not something AP based.
 
As far as I'm aware, it can be nulled by characters having bigger spiritual energy and verse equalization would allow that to happen. I remember it being brought up on one of Kukui's threads.
 
AKM sama said:
As far as I'm aware, it can be nulled by characters having bigger spiritual energy and verse equalization would allow that to happen. I remember it being brought up on one of Kukui's threads.
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having more energy isn't the requirement for resisting reiatsu.

a 10-A resisted( barely survived but still) the soul rip in the 100+ and the casual reiatsu of an 7-A(soon high 6-C) because she have good soul manip resistance .

the level of energy have nothing to do with it , it's your resistance to soul manip that counts.
 
An incredibly draining and time-consuming Hakai, yes. Manga Goku is much weaker than Anime Goku and Frieza has several feats of tanking Hakai and even controlling a Hakai. Frieza's resistance to EE and ability to control it would just backfire and enable Frieza to Hakai at least one of the heroes.

It's probably best to keep this as Anime Goku and Anime Frieza. Manga Goku is horribly outclassed against Anime Frieza.

I honestly don't believe Jotaro can do much to Frieza, and I doubt Aizen. Time Stop is great and all but Frieza can tank Broly for over an hour and Aizen is a 5-B with mad hax.

DIO might be extremely dangerous to Ichigo, Jotaro and maybe even Goku, assuming he uses Absolute Zero against the three. To add further, it may be possible for DIO to reposition his opponents so they are tagged by Frieza's AP or Aizen's Hax. Of course, Jotaro could do the same but Jotaro, to my memory, has a hard time spamming Time Stop due to his human body and can only Time Stop for half that of DIO's Time Stop.. Jotaro is pretty much going to be forced to focus on stopping DIO from putting Ichigo and Goku in harm's way but if Jotaro makes a single misstep due to his lower stamina and shorter time stop, he will be crushed by Frieza and/or Aizen.

Due to Jotaro and DIO being busy with eachother, this is basically Goku & Ichigo VS Frieza & AIzen. I have no idea how strong Ichigo is, or his hax (same for Aizen) so I will leave that debate to Bleach fans.

Frieza would almost certainly win a 1v1 against Goku, due to Frieza having the endurance to handle Broly for over an hour (who is likely over 40x the power of Goku) which should scale to his AP. It seems like Goku would have to even the playing field with Kaio-Ken X20, but continual use of X20 would strain Goku's body and gradually weaken him over time.

So, I'd give Frieza the advantage against Goku. If Goku goes down, Ichigo is the only way that the Heroes will be able to win. So the results of this battle hinges on Ichigo and Aizen, I think.

tl;dr - Frieza probably beats Goku. DIO has vastly superior Time Stop to Jotaro and has allies that can enable him to recover if he becames damaged. I think Goku and Jotaro are both at a massive stamina disadvantage against their villainous counterparts, resulting in this being based on Aizen and Ichigo, what hax they have and how well they can use it to tip the battle into their favor. I know Aizen has some nutty powers but I know absolutely nothing about Ichigo's endgame powers.
 
if reiatsu could be resisted with just power , she would have died as the difference between a 10-A and a 7-A is massive.

reiatsu is soul manip, as soul rip is .

tatsuki resisted a 100+ soul rip and if i understood correctly , soul hax potency is based on numbers affected on this wiki , just like mind hax .

yammi casual reiatsu affected her more than the soul rip did . she later even resisted out of chysalis aizen casual and supressed reiatsu for a bit, wich he was surprised about in terms of soul manip

anyway, yammi's casual/supressed reiatsu scale above 100+ soul rip easily and he is giga fodder to both aizen and ichigo for this match .

Dio , jotaro , goku and frieza don't have resistance nor are they higher dimensional beings so they get yeeted by passive reiatsu from both ichigo and aizen.

aizen then toy with ichigo and win the fight .
 
I'm still completely disagreeing with that. Tatsuki survived because she has above the normal human amount of Reiatsu.
 
On top of that, the entire concept is based on it overloading your senses with the raw size and vastness of your power. This trope is the exact same as other ones. The Bleach wiki— while not an official source, it's a cite dedicated to being as factual about just 1 verse out of the thousands we cover as possible— says this about Reiatsu stun: "High level of spiritual power can cause those of lower power to be stunned by simply being in the presence of a high level spiritual being."

This Soul Manip stuff is headcanon.
 
> using the Bleach wiki as a soruce


Kay and considering that Imade has explained the mechanics of Reiatsu crush multiple times who's the most knowledgeable user regarding Bleach. No offense but I'm gonna take his words ( which have already been accepted ) over someone's words who isn't as well versed as he is. You cant really argue that its a trope whenever it's a literary basic power in the verse.
 
This Soul Manip stuff is headcanon. Kay

>Bleach wiki

The same wiki who say Hachi has EE barrier, lol

The same wiki who say this which is literally a headcanon and not stated anywhere in the manga

>Ten years in the future, Yhwach attempts to use The Almighty to destroy the future by infiltrating it with his Reiatsu, but due to Ichigo defeating him ten years prior the Reiatsu vanishes altogether

Same wiki who say bleach novel is non canon depsite kubo himself say otherwise. you get the point.
 
Amexim said:
I can show you a trope in other verses that works the exact same as Reiatsu Crush. Imma just share this stuff. https://w10.mangafreak.net/Read1_My_Wife_Is_A_Demon_Queen_44Page 9 of 12.
The exact same thing, right down to the characters without mystic energy not being able to stand, almost dying of shock. Heart attack and shit. Come on bro.
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dude , this is what we call Overwhelming Aura , do you know anything of this site ?

Dragon ball for example , despite their huge power doesn't have it , normal humans have no problem standing next to goku in SSJ , beside maybe being blown away by the wind released ? they are not paralysed , gasping for air , on the verge of death or dying from it.

Overwhelming Aura often carry hax that need to be resisted . you don't resist the hax , you're done .
 
.... Saying that her soul is being crushed by a spiritual energy based overwhelming aura isn't proof of soul manipulation. That's st best poetic language that directly goes against the mechanics of the power. I recognize Bleach Wiki isn't the best source, but I don't feel like going through hundreds of volumes of shit just to prove to you what is obviously true by everyone. You act like this wiki is the arbiter of rational thinking on EVERY Verse when we often go through hoops to wank the **** out of verses. Like that "proof" you just posted. You use a flimsy statement to get the most hax out of an idea that has very little basis in the verse itself. We all know how Reiatsu Crush works. It's the most famous thing in Bleach. If you want me to buy your shitty "proof" with one scan that can't be directly interpreted to be "Soul Manipulation" and all available information lending towards it being AP based, good luck. Overwhelming aura hax is a case by case thing, with all things, and Reiatsu Crush is AP based. What the hell is going on? Lmao
 
Still siding with Amexim here. He understands a rule that even the non-research based One Minute Melee understands, which honestly is sad for us.
 
>Saying no proof
>Give proof
>Oh no shitty proof

Gud shit lmao, but bark all you want because nothing will change unless u create a crt.
 
The real cal howard said:
Still siding with Amexim here. He understands a rule that even the non-research based One Minute Melee understands, which honestly is sad for us.
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It's sad that you are still salty over this tbh.
 
Either way reiatsu crush is counted as being separate from AP and being hax here so all of that talk was for nothing unless they make a CTR and give prof of it not being hax.
 
Some context for those who want extra info. That statement come out after tatsuki has survive from an actual soul hax after Yammy doing his soul sucking over a large area, hence this is not some random soul statement out of nowhere.
 
Amexim said:
.... Saying that her soul is being crushed by a spiritual energy based overwhelming aura isn't proof of soul manipulation.
Click to expand...
"Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications."

Bleach's whole thing is using the power of their souls to influences others souls , how the hell isn't it Soul manip again ?

Soul manip is a hax and without resistance you will get affected .

can you guys stop trolling ?
 
Even if you guys are unequivocally, 100% right with no chance that anyone else would disagree with you, calling what he's doing trolling is blatant misinformation.
 
Everyone please calm down. Don't get hostile over this topic again.

Reiatsu Crush has been accepted as soulhax. Verse equalization doesn't protect you from being affected by it.

If you have something to say about the mechanics of it, please put them into a Content Revision Thread and not in this Versus Thread that has nothing to do with it. But be aware that we had multiple threads about this already and the consensus is that Reiatsu Crush affects you as a soulhax rather than a power-related attack.
 
i dont agree with goku and them would resist KS simply because they resisted babadis mind control and i damn sure dont think aizen is soul crushing goku, like bringing goku to his knees like he did to grimjow???
 
I'll be as vocal as I need to be to get my point across (no disrespect to you of course, other Cal). I'll happily make another CRT on it if need be but if I'm going to call a spade a spade no matter what board it's in. And we all know what I'm calling this spade. KS is perfectly valid but I will argue against RC until the day I leave this site.
 
The real cal howard said:
Even if you guys are unequivocally, 100% right with no chance that anyone else would disagree with you, calling what he's doing trolling is blatant misinformation.
Click to expand...
reiatsu have been accepted as soul manip and yet , despite you guys knowing about it , are derailing every thread with bleach matches that are won with reiatsu just because you're unhappy with the results or don't like hax .

make a crt and change the accepted status quo if you don't want to be called trolling .

that would like me arguing that a 10-A can beat a high 1-A just because i don't agree with higher dimensionality : it doesn't matter , it have been accepted as such and i'm trolling if i'm doing it

edit : ninja'd
 
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