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The release of series such as Avesta Visual Novel and Aditya will affect Shinza greatly (in a good way), profiles can be made at least in a few years (estimated 1 or 2).
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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~
- Thread starter Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
- Start date
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- Tags
- shinza banshou
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Imagine if the eventual installment with Mercurius as the protagonist depicts Nerose’s world as a type 4 multiverse.
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That should be the next project, right? Avesta covered Muzan's rise. Adatiya will cover Mitra's. There are only 3 choices here: stop with Adatiya, Mercurius or move directly to Pantheon. Still, Mercurius story would be more logical than moving to Pantheon.
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Before Pantheon, they also need a story detailing Hajun’s life under the 5th heaven iirc.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
- 5,999
Which sukuna?
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PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
- 5,999
So far as it is not JJK sukuna cause he will get some good home training ass whooping
Domain Expansion: Malignant Tumor Apoptosis
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Tenma one. Basically Shirou vs Machina - Tenma edition
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After avesta visual novel and aditya, I think shinza will return in at least 1 year (umineko and nasuverse's nightmare)
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Has anyone here actually read Avesta? Or are we just waiting for the VN
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Yes, there must be people who read Avesta, I think Pein read it and Rave is rereading it, but Rave is banned from vsb, it will probably be unbanned before Shinza profiles are created.
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Why'd he get banned?
I didn't know Pein read it. Interesting. We need a lot of people who have read it in order to get anything substantial for Avesta profiles
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I believe it’s she, but they called some1 the n word
Nice to see ya btw Tarang. It’s been a while. I wasn’t aware you were still here. Neat. If Yuri was still here then the circa ‘21 shinza squad would’ve been reunited.
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Lmao
Yeah I originally wasn't here for a while because I forgot my login and some weird stuff regarding the site, but yeah I'm back pretty much
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I have a random question.
Okay so, going back to the cosmology threads in 2021, I noticed a degree of debate over whether or not singularity layers held qualitative superiority, and the general consensus seemed to be that they don't.
However, the difference between singularity layers has been called a "phase gap," which is verbatim said in K3 to denote a reality-fiction difference. Doesn't that seem pretty straightforward?
Okay so, going back to the cosmology threads in 2021, I noticed a degree of debate over whether or not singularity layers held qualitative superiority, and the general consensus seemed to be that they don't.
However, the difference between singularity layers has been called a "phase gap," which is verbatim said in K3 to denote a reality-fiction difference. Doesn't that seem pretty straightforward?
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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There are no layers in the singularity to begin with, it's a void of nothingness.
Each God singularity just has different depth depending on their taikyoku number. Singularity depth only matters in the struggle for the throne.
Each God singularity just has different depth depending on their taikyoku number. Singularity depth only matters in the struggle for the throne.
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the whole "phase thing" in the singularity is mentioned only once
「あと薄皮一枚。その程度だろう。俺としてはそれが唯一の無念だが、あるいはこれで良かったかもしれない。おまえたちが真に切り開くと言うのなら、お膳立てはここまでだ」 "One more thin layer. That's probably about it. That's the only disappointment for me, but maybe it's for the best. If you guys are really going to cut through, then the sky's the limit."
むしろその視線は俺の背後、ここであってここではない、何処か別の位相へと向いているようで…… Rather, his line of sight seems to be directed to some other phase behind me, here and not here...
and although there are mentions of the same difference being "the distance between 2 dimensions" and such, R>F can have different meanings based off the context, take for example Varhran who is disconnected from the shinza world in a way worse than Hadou Gods are as he is outside the throne system and yet he only views them as "fictional stories" but in this case, he cannot force himself into the story and thus uses conversion to bring them to his side(Zero which is beyond guys such as Hajun and the Naraka rangers)
「あんたはできる。できすぎて、逆に恥ずかしくなったんだ。負かした相手から奪い続けてきたのは、人並みになりたかったからだろう」"You can do it. You're so good, you're so good, you're ashamed of yourself. You've been robbing the people you beat because you wanted to be as average as anyone else."
血みどろになっても怯まず攻めるマグサリオンの猛撃が、再びワルフラーンに傷を与えた。今度は頬で、やはり皮一枚にすぎなかったが、異形の勇者は業火に触れたかのごとく過剰に反応して距離を取る。Magsarion's onslaught, which attacked without fear even in blood, wounded Varhran again. This time it was in the cheek, still only a skin wound, but the deformed hero overreacted and moved away as if he had been touched by karmic fire.
「寂しがってると言ったのは、そういう意味だ」"When I said you were lonely, that's what I meant."
逃さじと追いかけるマグサリオン。彼の指摘がワルフラーンという男の真実だった。規格の違う才能と、“零”に通じる異端の視点を持って生まれた。なるほどアフラマズダが評した通り、生きている階層がそもそも違う。ワルフラーンにとっては、世界が物語と変わらぬものに見えたはずだ。まるで本でも読んでいるような気分。目の前にある笑顔も、涙も、活字や挿絵と変わらない。それは紛れもなく一方的に優越した、超越者の立場だろう。しかし考えてみるがいい、断絶した関係なのはお互い様だ。読者が物語の登場人物にどうしたって芯から寄り添えないのと同じく、“みんな”もワルフラーンには寄り添えない。そこには狂おしい孤独がある。たとえどれだけ“みんな”を愛し、彼らと共に生きたいと願ったところで叶わない。同じ温度の夢を見ることが不可能で、突き詰めれば分からないし分かってもらえない。だからワルフラーンは自らの才を恥じた。一人だけ卑怯な反則をしているみたいで、公平に生きるための戒律を組み上げた。勝者の特権――負かした相手から、もっとも大事な武器を奪う。単純な強さだったり、能力だったり、情だったりと様々だが、真相は今まで思われていた強化狙いの所業に非ず。むしろ逆で、己の純性を損なわせるのが目的だった。有り体に、弱くなりたかったのだと表現していい。わざわざ他者の力を奪わなくても、ワルフラーンは最初から強い。単に勝手気ままな生を望むなら、素のままで好きなようにできたはずだ。けれどそれでは満たされない。どんな偉業を成し讃えられても、しょせんは物語の中の出来事。自分の現実と交わらぬ以上、虚しい思いが募るだけ。ゆえに奪った。堕ちたくて、“みんな”と一緒に泣いて笑える資格を得たくて、“こちら側”の属性をこれでもかと装飾した。そうすることで、俺はおまえたちの仲間なんだと主張していたに違いない。Magsarion chased after him, determined not to let him escape. He pointed out the truth about the man Varhran . He was born with extraordinary talent and heretical perspective of "Zero". Just as Ahura Mazda said, his hierarchy to be alive is fundamentally different. To him, world is no different from the story. Living is no different from turning pages of the book. It’s without a doubt transcendental position. But that kind of relationship is broken from the get go. Just as readers never get close to the characters in the story, Varhran doesn't get close to “everyone”. The result is maddening loneliness – no matter how much he loves “everyone” and wants to live with them it doesn’t come true. It is impossible to have the same degree of dreaming, and when you get right down to it, you don't know and they don't know you. That’s why Varhran was ashamed of his talent. Only he possessed unfair advantage and thus, he established Commandment to live fairly. Privilege of the winner – stealing the most important weapon from the defeated opponent. It could be simple strength, ability or even emotion, but truth is he didn’t do that to strengthen himself. On the contrary, his purpose was to undermine his own nature and become weak. Even without robbing others Varhran is strong from the beginning. If he wanted to live selfish life, he could do whatever he wanted. But that wasn’t enough. No matter what kind of deeds he will create, no matter how grandiose praise he will receive, it’s only even in the story. So long they don’t intersect with his reality, empty thoughts are the only kind he will receive. As long as it doesn't intersect with his reality, it will only make him feel empty. Therefore, he started to rob others. He wanted to fall, he wanted to reach qualification where he would laugh and cry with “everyone”, that’s why he started to decorate himself with attributes of “this side” and proclaimed himself their companion.
「あれこれと試したようだが、結局望んだ場所には行けなかった。試みの方向性が違うと、兄者も気付いていたんだろう」"It seems he tried this and that but in the end he didn't get where he wanted to go. I think my brother realised that the attempts were going in the wrong direction."鍔迫り合いの状態で、マグサリオンは皮肉げな笑みを浮かべた。そこには嘲罵と、微かな憐憫が窺える。強すぎて弱くなりたかった男。物語の中に入りたいと願いながら、あまりにも隔絶した視点の差に阻まれた勇者はどうするべきか。残る手段は一つしかない。In a brinksmanship situation, Magsarion smiled sarcastically. There was a sneer and a hint of pity in it. A man who was too strong and wanted to be weak. What should a brave man who wishes to be part of the story, but who is blocked by a perspective that is too separate from the rest of the story, do? There is only one remaining recourse.「あんたは“零”を知り、答えを得た。自ら下に降りられないなら、逆に引っ張り上げればいい。そのためのアイオーンだ」"You know "Zero" and you have your answer. If you can't go down by yourself, pull up the others. That's what Aeons are for."“みんな”を自分の側に生まれ変わらせる召喚(コンバート)。物語の喩えに倣うなら、絵本の登場人物たちを現実に持ってくる選択だ。これも孤独の払拭には違いなく、一番優れた者が仕切る法とも合致している。“零”と戦う万神軍(パンテオン)を動かせば、己の才と属性をワルフラーンはもう恥じなくていい。Summon (convert) “everyone” to his side and reincarnate them. Following logic of a story, it’s an act similar to brining characters of picture book to reality. This would dispel his loneliness and conforms to his idea that the best person should pull strings. If he puts into motion Pantheon that fights against Zero, then Varhran will no longer be ashamed of his talent and attribute.
「寂しかった――そうかもしれない。でも俺が、他と違うからってだけじゃ説明がつかないぞ。クワルナフたちだって異物は異物だ」"I was lonely - maybe so. But just because I'm different from the rest doesn't explain it. Even Khvarenah and the others are foreign to the rest of the world."
現行の宇宙法則に馴染まぬ性を持ち、己の色で塗り替えんとする覇道資格者も孤独と言えば孤独である。なのに彼らは、そんな感情を抱いていた印象があまりない。視点と力量に程度の差はあれ、有象無象とかけ離れているところだけ見れば同じなのに。Those with a nature that does not fit in with the current cosmic laws and who are qualified for Hadou to paint the world in their own colour are also lonely, if we can call them lonely. And yet I don't get the impression that they harbour such feelings. They have different perspectives and abilities, but they are all the same in that they are far removed from the rest of the world.
「さっき真我(アレ)が言ってただろう。あんたはイレギュラーだ。本来、ここに出てくる予定なんかなかったのさ」"You heard Shinga(that one) just now. You are an anomaly. You were never meant to be here."
神座が代替わりして流転するのは理の内。よってクワルナフたちは、生まれるべくして生まれた存在だと定義できる。途中で倒れたとはいえ、彼らのごとき者らが鎬を削って次代の神を決するのは自然なことだ。比べてワルフラーンはどうか。この時代、このタイミングで、彼に用意された席があったか？答えは否だ。The replacement and passing away of the divine throne is within reason. Therefore, Khvarenah and his kind can be defined as beings who were born by a natural destiny. Even though they fell in the process, it is only natural that those of their kind should compete with each other to determine the next generation of deities. What about Varhran, by comparison? Was there a throne prepared for him at this time and in this age? The answer is no.
it honestly depends on the context of the statement, R>F can mean 600 different things and none of them are wrong based off the context
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I mean, values aren't usually that relevant, feats are better
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Bro, Sukuna vs Ootake is alr confirmed to be a stomp for the former
Q: 宿際と大試は共に夜刀以下の者には負けないという特性を持っていますが、彼らが戦ったらどうなりますか? A: 宿帳は夜刀と同等レベルの異能までなら消し飛ばせる。つまり大獄の能力も無効です。しかし夜刀の自滅因子である宿は、宿主がないとも生きられないという理論のもと、夜刀に深い関わりがある力を消すと自分にもフィードバックがきます。その点、大獄の素顔は究極の夜刀様ラブ幻想なので、これを消すと宿儀もただじゃすみません。相討ちという次元を超えて、最悪の場合は夜刀本体にまで因果が及び、夜都賀波岐全員を巻き込んで穢土ごと消滅するかも。宿帳と大獄、この二人が穢土の死を具現しているということから、彼らが戦えばそんなことになります。お互い避けあっていたり、常世らがあの二人は手に負えないと言っていたのはそのせい。 Q: Both Sukuna and Ootake have the trait that they cannot be defeated by anyone below Yato, but what happens when they fight? A: Sukuna can erase up to the same level of different powers as Yato. In other words, it also nullifies the ability of Ootake. However, under the theory that Yato's self-destructive factor, Sukuna, cannot live without a host, extinguishing a power that is closely related to Yato will cause feedback to him. In this respect, the true face of Ootake is the ultimate Yato-sama love fantasy, so if this is erased, Sukuna will not be free. In the worst case, the cause and effect may even reach Yato itself, and the body of Yato may be extinguished, involving all the members of Yatsuakahagi. Sukuna and Ootake, the fact that these two embody the death of the Edo, will be such a thing if they fight.。This is why they avoid each other and why Tokoyo and others said those two were unruly.
but there are some interesting topics inverse I agree
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I disagree, the singularity of the 4th heaven is deeper via it being of a stronger God
Yato could drill it only due to him drilling it for 8k years and even after that, he still needed time to reach the throne, Ryuumei and Yakou said in the game that normally, Yatou wouldn't be able to reach the throne, it is all due to his 8k years non stop drill
not really, Kaikhosru and Sirius at least together are stated to be stronger than Shinga, the depth is an issue, look at Yato drilling the singularity for 8k years
well, the depth of the singularity is based off the strength of the deity, so it can become weaker or stronger, we have different confirmations of depth of the singularity=strength of the god
the point is that special conditions allow weaker dudes to reach it, for example:Soujirou and Shiori could reach it due to their characteristics and it being the final push, something similar is also implied with Habaki and Rindou and their proto amaterasu in the same scene(although Yakou said they would kinda be exhausted by trying to drill the singularity)
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I failed to understand that love fantasy part. Can you explain?
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just the fact that he is ultra connected to Yato and works pretty much exactly like Sukuna, in fact, Masada said in the same scan that he is deeply connected to Yato and affecting someone so related to Yato would cause a feedback to Sukuna as well. By the way there are better Matchups you can make, for example the demon kings vs the PL crew(since they are now retconned and weak)
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BTW, I thought that someone might need these, basically I made some imgur posts regarding Shinza, including PL
and also Avesta
technically they can be used when the verse is back to help with the profiles, especially the PL and Avesta ones since I remember that there weren't many scans back then
and also Avesta
technically they can be used when the verse is back to help with the profiles, especially the PL and Avesta ones since I remember that there weren't many scans back then
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Send them on discord.
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I have yet to understand why it can't brought back with the "1B" key and then do some threads later on
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So, basically Magsarion got weaker when he changed his nature to Muzan?
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Yes, people who didn't read avesta think that he became stronger cuz he became a God, the problem is that Magsarion's commandment were severly weakened as he don't even have for example, his killing intents=power boost, his 2nd commandment now gives him a 50/50 chance to win while Magsarion don't have any 50/50 thing, he just goes for kill(as soon as he understands you, you are done)..... Even Muzan had a speech explaining how he could not overturn the law of the throne system(which is the same law that binds Hajun, Mercurius etc...) but Magsarion could perform feats way above these trough his Mah(Varhran is beyond the throne system and still Magsarion cut his connection from Zero etc...), also Magsarion lies deeper than Muzan who is just made up of the cravings of everyone merged together, Magsarion is just on a totally different level compared to Muzan
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also I think that when the verse will be brought back, many stuffs should be changed
for example, Gods>All pseudo Gods(Tell me how Nerose is going to win against Eleonore who is part of Reinhard's legion as she literally countered the flame that killed Nerose)
also
パンテオンのレアリティについてはバランスに関わるのでまだなんとも言えないけど、単に強さでランク分けするなら自分のイメージ的には以下の七段階。
① シュピーネさん
② リザ・咲耶
③ 螢・ルサルカ・ノウ・龍水
④ ヴィルヘルム・ベアトリス・トリファ・東征軍主力
⑤ マキナ・エレオノーレ・シュライバー・ロト・龍明
⑥ メトシェラ・ヤツカハギ勢・天使悪魔・七大魔王
⑦ 覇道・求道神
一番数が多くて平均的なのは③、ヨミが④、主人公が⑤、ヒルメが⑥ってところだと思う。
Translation:
I can't say anything about the rarity of Pantheon yet as it's all about balance, but if I were to simply rank them by strength (強さ), I'd rank them at the following seven ranks in my image.
1) Spinne
2) Riza/Lisa, Sakuya (咲耶)
3) Kei (螢), Rusalka, Know, Ryuusui (龍水)
4) Wilhelm, Beatrice, Trifa, Eastern Expedition Main Forces (東征軍主力), Yomi
5) Machina, Eleonore, Schreiber, Lot, Ryuumei (龍明), DI: Pantheon Protagonist
6) Methuselah, Yatsukahagi Legion, Angel and Demons (Dust Angels), Seven Demon Kings, Hirume
7) Hadou and Gudou Gods
I would think the most numerous and average is 3), Yomi is 4), Protagonist is 5), and Hirume is 6).
this ranking is a bit messed up
why are the Yatsukahagi and the PL crew a tier above Ryuumei and Lyle? or why are the Yatsukahagi one tier below Hadou and Gudou Gods when some of them literally scale to Gods? Like, the only way I can see it working is that Masada talked about the Yatsukahagi without Taikyoku(and even then, Ootake and Sukuna would still be higher than this tier)
a lot of stuffs should be changed, also PL crew is now within Muzan's law while back in the day during PL, Lyle(way weaker than the one we saw at the end of the game) was compared to Muzan and even stated to be above him due to Nacht's sin etc....
for example, Gods>All pseudo Gods(Tell me how Nerose is going to win against Eleonore who is part of Reinhard's legion as she literally countered the flame that killed Nerose)
also
パンテオンのレアリティについてはバランスに関わるのでまだなんとも言えないけど、単に強さでランク分けするなら自分のイメージ的には以下の七段階。
① シュピーネさん
② リザ・咲耶
③ 螢・ルサルカ・ノウ・龍水
④ ヴィルヘルム・ベアトリス・トリファ・東征軍主力
⑤ マキナ・エレオノーレ・シュライバー・ロト・龍明
⑥ メトシェラ・ヤツカハギ勢・天使悪魔・七大魔王
⑦ 覇道・求道神
一番数が多くて平均的なのは③、ヨミが④、主人公が⑤、ヒルメが⑥ってところだと思う。
Translation:
I can't say anything about the rarity of Pantheon yet as it's all about balance, but if I were to simply rank them by strength (強さ), I'd rank them at the following seven ranks in my image.
1) Spinne
2) Riza/Lisa, Sakuya (咲耶)
3) Kei (螢), Rusalka, Know, Ryuusui (龍水)
4) Wilhelm, Beatrice, Trifa, Eastern Expedition Main Forces (東征軍主力), Yomi
5) Machina, Eleonore, Schreiber, Lot, Ryuumei (龍明), DI: Pantheon Protagonist
6) Methuselah, Yatsukahagi Legion, Angel and Demons (Dust Angels), Seven Demon Kings, Hirume
7) Hadou and Gudou Gods
I would think the most numerous and average is 3), Yomi is 4), Protagonist is 5), and Hirume is 6).
this ranking is a bit messed up
why are the Yatsukahagi and the PL crew a tier above Ryuumei and Lyle? or why are the Yatsukahagi one tier below Hadou and Gudou Gods when some of them literally scale to Gods? Like, the only way I can see it working is that Masada talked about the Yatsukahagi without Taikyoku(and even then, Ootake and Sukuna would still be higher than this tier)
a lot of stuffs should be changed, also PL crew is now within Muzan's law while back in the day during PL, Lyle(way weaker than the one we saw at the end of the game) was compared to Muzan and even stated to be above him due to Nacht's sin etc....
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Honestly, I failed to understand a lot about Magsarion. For example, technically you must have taikyoku to kill a taikyoku being. Having taikyoku makes you a god, so Magsarion must have become god at some time, but similarly to Marie created/awakened hadou craving otherwise killing Mithra would have taken to long. However, which point exactly granted him this ability? Achieving his Void body? But if so, how does it differ lets say Tenma Ootake's nature? Technically they are both void beings in maintained by armors. As for his 2nd commandment, I personally understand as something similar to Machina's/Ootake's fist, except instead of having history, one needs understanding. Is that more or less close?
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Because I think as of rn people have disregarded the 1B stuff due to new information. The basis for 1B was the 24D stuff but that's not valid anymore, so we can't really use a placeholder or anything like that
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Understandable, too nowdays, people use 5d, I mean, It Is definitely bad but at least we can bring back the verse and then make upgrades
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Here's how Mags vs Shinga/Mitra went:
Mags:cuts mitra in half
Mitra:nice try
Infinite mitra appear
As he Is not a God, Magsarion cannot kill them, as soon as he "kills" Mitra's copies, they "resurrect" as he have no capacity of a Hadou being nor he Is a God, thus Quinn buys time and She alongside Mags understand Shinga, her story and her commandment and Mags decides to make his killing intent mixed with the prayers of everyone, emanate, this starts to create Muzan aka the exterior personality of Muzan made to master Hadou, thus creating the Hadou and Gudou law of sin, once It Is completed, Muzan talks with Shinga, understands what Shinga wanted in a commander and decides to f*ci up everything and as a God, he kills her
It should be noted that mags lies deeper than Muzan
Here's the thing:Mags isn't a God and Muzan Is, however, in this scenario, mortal state>divine state
This Is probably something that Will happen as well with Lament and Mercurius since Merc said in pantheon that unlike Reinhard, he Is bound by his origin but that's still speculation, One thing Is sure, Mags and Muzan are not the Same personality and while the former Is a mortal, the latter Is a God
For his void body, Ootake had no head because Yato beheaded him, for Mags I'm pretty sure It was because he removed his parts resembling Varhran
Now for the 2nd commandment, It Is technically the embodiment of Magsarion's apoptosis nature but It can be used onto everyone while usual cancers can use It only against their hosts, It Is similar to Ootake but not in the way you portray It:
Ootake's fists can't beat anyone stronger than Yato
Magsarion can understand and kill way stronger guys
However, It should be noted that they are similar in the Sense that they are akin to apoptosis, Ootake working exactly like Sukuna while Magsarion's 2nd commandment becomes the apoptosis of literally anyone he fights, Magsarion with his 2nd commandment can go on to understand guys stronger than him and still win because in the end, being the strongest nowdays Is Just fodder, even Hajun would succumb to Mags's commandment, he would survive as Mags can't kill gods but It doesn't mean he can't surpass them trough the commandment or create "gaps" in them that would lead to an infinite Battle where Mags can't kill them and the God can't win
PrinceofPein
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It is 1-A.
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technically yes, I'm pretty sure a mod said 1A can be reached the same way it was with the old system, thing is that the old arguments used weren't that good ngl(same for Yuri's downgrade)
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If Ultima's revision goes through, then yeah probably
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Transcending concept of space will be 1-A again?
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