Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Anyway what I am saying is
The creation can accommodate higher dimensions as shown and stated.
The throne will always be above any expansion of the creation as shown and stated also
That is the textbook definition of 1A

If you need help getting PL scans, just tell me the part you need maybe tomorrow I will help with that if I am free

don't take too much pressure bro..these things can wait...

 

[Tarang123]

Anyway what I am saying is
The creation can accommodate higher dimensions as shown and stated.
The throne will always be above any expansion of the creation as shown and stated also
That is the textbook definition of 1A

Easier way would just use the canvas itself. Show that while the picture is different, the canvas remains relatively unchanged in terms of ontological size. Then show the stuff of higher dimensions, which you could use to get it to 1A. But that's not something to worry about for rn.

 

[Tarang123]

I can’t believe nobody has pointed this out, but the music in k3 or shinza as a whole is amazing

 

[Tarang123]

Favorite ost and shinza story is something people need to answer.

 

[Tarang123]

Personally, my favorite OSTs are either Jubilus, Omega Ewigkeit, or the OP for Kajiri

 

[Tarang123]

Also Mephistopheles, that one is dope.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

BTW guys, why do we assume that a realm that is above any number of spatial dimensions added to a finite dimensional realm is 1-A? i mean, it could be aleph 0 (High 1-B), or aleph-1(Low 1-A) as well, why do we take it as aleph-2?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Favorite ost and shinza story is something people need to answer.

hell yeah. Music in shinza is underrated. It could easily be a great anime theme song. i and chakravartin would use it in our fanfics.

 

[Odinson]

Is the singularity a part of the creation or the canvas?

It is a hole in the paper but it's not a part of reality. Paper is not reality, everything painted on the paper becomes reality. It was stated that singularity is not a painting but rather a hole on the Paper, painting refers to world of foreknowledge aka the real multiverse. All these higher dimensional ***** is a part of painting whereas Singularity isn't.

All of this is implied in dies Irae, dk how you missed it...

 

[Tarang123]

Is the singularity a part of the creation or the canvas?

The canvas and Creation are the exact same thing. The multiverse/universe is the multiverse.

 

[Odinson]

The canvas and Creation are the exact same thing

Canvas is the word used for paper in English version of DI. JP calls it a paper and everything painting on it creation.

 

[Odinson]

One of My favourite is letzte battalion.

 

[Tarang123]

Canvas is the word used for paper in English version of DI. JP calls it a paper and everything painting on it creation.

Even the english version calls it a paper. I was mainly referring to K3's vocabulary for it and the anime's. Even then, it's still the same kind of idea.

 

[Odinson]

Even the english version calls it a paper. I was mainly referring to K3's vocabulary for it and the anime's. Even then, it's still the same kind of idea.

Oh then it's fine. And yes they're the same thing.

Basically :
1- Paper is the stage.
2- Painting done on it becomes Reality and all this *****
3- Singularity is not a painting but a hole on the paper itself.
4- throne is above the stage itself and gods sit on it to govern the events on Paper.

 

[Tarang123]

One of My favourite is letzte battalion.

Nice

Oh then it's fine. And yes they're the same thing.

Basically :
1- Paper is the stage.
2- Painting done on it becomes Reality and all this *****
3- Singularity is not a painting but a hole on the paper itself.
4- throne is above the stage itself and gods sit on it to govern the events on Paper.

Pretty much, tbh

 

[PrinceofPein]

It is a hole in the paper but it's not a part of reality. Paper is not reality, everything painted on the paper becomes reality. It was stated that singularity is not a painting but rather a hole on the Paper, painting refers to world of foreknowledge aka the real multiverse. All these higher dimensional ***** is a part of painting whereas Singularity isn't.

All of this is implied in dies Irae, dk how you missed it...

Obviously I was replying to you saying something that has no business with what I was saying

The entire point is, only gods transcends the multiverse and whatever expansion it has.

You : But The Singularity is not a part of the multiversal expansion. its size or it's nature does not changes depending on how big or small the multiverse is.

 

[Tarang123]

You : But The Singularity is not a part of the multiversal expansion. its size or it's nature does not changes depending on how big or small the multiverse is.

What he's trying to say is that the singularity isn't part of the picture, and as such the multiverse's expansion has no effect to it due to its ontological size being superior to that of even the canvas itself.

 

[PrinceofPein]

What he's trying to say is that the singularity isn't part of the picture, and as such the multiverse's expansion has no effect to it due to its ontological size being superior to that of even the canvas itself.

And I was asking how that relates to me saying the gods are above any expansion done to the painting on the paper

 

[Tarang123]

And I was asking how that relates to me saying the gods are above any expansion done to the painting on the paper

It was a response to your "only gods" comment. He was pointing out that the singularity also has this kind of function.

 

[Odinson]

You said all gods can cross the Singularity because they transcend all expansion done on the painting. I explained why that's not the case because singularity isn't even a part of painting.

 

[Tarang123]

You said all gods can cross the Singularity because they transcend all expansion done on the painting. I explained why that's not the case because singularity isn't even a part of painting.

Besides, the downgrade/upgrade that Pain made already pointed out that without adequate strength, one can't cross the singularity without certain conditions.

 

[Odinson]

Besides, the downgrade/upgrade that Pain made already pointed out that without adequate strength, one can't cross the singularity without certain conditions.

That's indeed true

 

[PrinceofPein]

You said all gods can cross the Singularity because they transcend all expansion done on the painting. I explained why that's not the case because singularity isn't even a part of painting.

No that's not what I said, I just said
"Gods are above any expansion done to the multiverse"

 

[Odinson]

No that's not what I said, I just said
"Gods are above any expansion done to the multiverse"

U : any god can cross the Singularity
Me : no that's not true
U : the point is, all gods transcend the multiverse and its expansion
Me : but that wouldn't apply to expansion on the Singularity because it isn't a part of multiverse.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

i always thought that singularity is the paper itself, the canvas where everything is painted upon.

 

[PrinceofPein]

U : any god can cross the Singularity
Me : no that's not true
U : the point is, all gods transcend the multiverse and its expansion
Me : but that wouldn't apply to expansion on the Singularity because it isn't a part of multiverse.

What I mean is any good can go into the singularity, not into the throne
Like cross from the multiverse into the singularity.

i always thought that singularity is the paper itself, the canvas where everything is painted upon.

Yes the singularity is like the blank canvas where the painting happens

 

[Odinson]

i always thought that singularity is the paper itself, the canvas where everything is painted upon.

Singularity is very weird tbh it is referred to those who are disconnected to a Hadou god's law example Gudou gods, it's a place where nothing exists and all that.

No singularity isn't the paper its ON the paper.

それはなんと定義するべきだろう。 紙の上にありながら、絵ではないし色でもない。 すなわち、世界の特異点。

How should it be defined ? It is on paper, but it was neither a picture nor a color. That is to say, it was a Singularity of the World.

Edit : it has more to it but this is the most basic stuff.

 

[Odinson]

Like I said, it can refer to those who are disconnected by god's law. Marie and her beach etc. But this is obviously different from the Singularity which is created when 2 laws clash and the paper is torn, leaving a hole which leads to throne.

 

[Tarang123]

Yes the singularity is like the blank canvas where the painting happens

The singularity is a hole on paper.

https://gyazo.com/4abbfaa7ce13459428ef4a2c13f582c5

シャンバラの方陣が消失する。 産道は弾け飛び、ついに窮屈な檻から放たれた死人の世界が、爆発的に広がりだす。 それを阻止せんと、停止の世界もさらに強まり── 高まる覇道と覇道の閲ぎ合いは、ここに臨界を超えた。

This talks about the nature of the law painting between Ren and Reinhard

https://gyazo.com/937039197a53cb312e9096f19126f81b

そう、臨界を超えたらどうなるか。 これを一枚の紙に例えてみよう。 そこには現在、 “既知”という絵が描かれている。 その一角、シャンバラという地域限定で、停止”という色と“死人”という色が領土を争いながら重ね塗りを続けているのだ。 この二色には、性質上の違いがある。 “停止”は色鉛筆で、“死人”は絵の具。しかも“チューブ”から直塗りしている絵の具だと思えばいい。 その産道 (チューブ) が、いま弾けた。 色鉛筆の塗り速度に対抗するため、絵の具は産道 (チューブ) が邪魔だったのである。

This talks about the making of the hole.

https://gyazo.com/67701106bfbd2cee93bae149a3c4fa94

結果、何がどうなるか。 強い筆圧や度を超えた重ね塗りは、絵を完成させる前に紙そのものへ穴を開ける。 そう、穴が開くのだ。臨界を突破するとはそういうこと。 それはなんと定義するべきだろう。 紙の上にありながら、絵ではないし色でもない。 すなわち、世界の特異点。

It's a hole on paper, but is not part of the picture, nor does it have a color. It's appropriate to call it a singularity of the world.

https://gyazo.com/eb6a856f08286e8733bc2fd211747ee6

穴の大きさは不明。 シャンバラ全体を飲み込んだか、それともその外まで弾けたか、あるいは針の先ほどか。 不明だが、ともかく特異点は生じたのだ。 そしてそこに、この事態を引き起こした当事者全員が落ちていく。 では、紙の下にあるのは何か?

The size is unknown. It could be larger than the entirety of shambala or smaller than the tip of a needle. What is under the paper.

https://gyazo.com/c18d344fb0efd6d51faa50a19543ff17

「ようこそ──」 穴の向こうにあるのは此処。 今や完全な白紙状態。何色も存在せず、何色にもなれる此処こそが、最終的な決着の場として相応しい。 「新世界へ。今、我々が総ての中心にある」 では、最後の恐怖劇 (グランギニョル) を始めようか。

What lay beyond the hole is this place. This is now a completely blank slate. There existed no colors, yet it could be any color at all.



You can watch this vid if you want.

 

[Tarang123]

Like I said, it can refer to those who are disconnected by god's law. Marie and her beach etc. But this is obviously different from the Singularity which is created when 2 laws clash and the paper is torn, leaving a hole which leads to throne.

The word singularity is extremely vague, but the basic stuff is that its "something" that doesn't follow the Throne God's law

 

[Tarang123]

One of the best DI osts. Fun fact: Its original version was Dies Irae (the ost), and is quite similar, at least in my opinion.

 

[Odinson]

The word singularity is extremely vague, but the basic stuff is that its "something" that doesn't follow the Throne God's law

Yeah. One of the basic thing is that everything which is called singularity doesn't follows the laws of godhead. Other than that we have different singularities, but this one thing remains common.

 

[Tarang123]

Damn...shame that it was stopped, would have loved to see it finished.

 

[Tarang123]

I saw this guy on discord who genuinely believed that Gudou Gods were above Hadou Gods...like, what?

Gudou, by definition, cannot beat Hadou. This is due to soul count, along with a bunch of other factors. That's literally why the only time they did beat a Hadoshin was when they (mostly Habaki) were getting amped to 11 by Hajun. That's literally why the weak af shades of previous gods were able to give them trouble. But whatever, most people aren't like that.

 

[Tarang123]

Q.甘粕がDies世界に行ったらどうなるの？
A.嬉々としてラインハルトに挑んで死ぬ。

Pretty interesting shit. Summary: Reinhard would slaughter Amakasu in a fight.

 

[Tarang123]

単体宇宙という超高密度の肉体同士が接触し、その瞬間に拳と剣で相手の理を無効化 して、本来殴れないものと斬れないものが叫喚しながら削り取られた。
吹き飛ぶ肉片はどれだけ僅かな質量だろうと神の欠片で、宇宙の欠片だ。血の一滴でも天体に匹敵するもので あり、ゆえにそれを破壊した攻撃の深さは計り知れない。

Basic stuff about how even minor damage to a Gudou God does immeasurable damage to their universe and stuff.

 

[Tarang123]

太極とは何ぞやと言われれば、端的に法則と言うしかない。

すなわちその世界における絶対法であり、そうした決まり事を定めた張本人を指す。

無論、世に法則といったものは無限に近く存在するし、それら一つ一つが太極というわけではない。

現実に刃物は切るという法則を帯びているし、火は燃やすという法則がある。水中の法則ならば肺呼吸ができないというものであろうし、そうした細々としたものは単なる物理だ。


重要なのは規模、密度。その法を構成する単位が宇宙という規格であり、ゆえにそれのみをもって独立した世界となり得るものを太極と定義する。

何も難しい話ではない。前述した水中の法が太極と化したなら、全宇宙が水底に変わるというだけのこと。もしくは、宇宙を砕く領域の法でなければ蒸発も凍結もしない水が誕生するだけのこと。

前者を覇道。後者を求道。

己が法則で森羅万象を制圧する太極と、己が法則のみ森羅万象から外れるという太極である。

この法を色と呼び、それを決定するのは人の想念。我は何々がしたい、何々になりたい。そうした祈りや願い、つまり渇望と言われるものが、太極を発生させる原動力となる。

よって、型に嵌めるとはそういうことだ。己を象徴する渇望をもって、自らが願う宇宙の在り様を決定する行為に他ならない。

Yakou's "muh laws" explanation

それは形を持った一つの宇宙。主たる者の渇望に沿い、絶対の法則として顕現した彼らの本性に他ならない。

「随神相――神咒神威・無間焦熱」

太極とは、それを定義した者の魂に属した色を帯び、その理をもって他の総てを塗り潰すもの。

曰く、万象を型に嵌める法則そのもの。

「随神相――神咒神威・無間叫喚」

よって彼らは、神格の座に達している。

西の常識では抹消された概念だが、神の位階に属する者には、人や人もどきの業などあらゆる意味で通用しない。

ゆえにその座へ至らずして、どのような策と力を重ねようが結果は蟷螂の斧にもならぬ。

絶対原則――神格は神格にしか斃せないのだ。

This is the other explanation of Taikyoku in K3, which explains just how ridiculous the difference between Akuro (and Morei) and the EE was.

こに絶対の劍を編む。まさしく万象の座すら切断するため。

ここに究極の蜃を編む。まさしく無量大数の壁すら超えるため。

These two statements were when Soujirou and Shiori were fighting from what I remember

 

[Tarang123]

何もない。彼にあるのは唯我という極犬の渇望だけである。

Hajun doesn't really have skills...

天狗道に死後の概念は存在しないため、死んだ者の魂は跡形も残らず消
滅し、徹底した唯我を法としているために新たな命を育むこともない。

Some conceptual erasure for Hajun. Man was literally going to erase the very concept of an afterlife on a bigger scale than what the first three heavens did.

 

[Tarang123]

「摩多羅夜行は、死を裁く者……死にたがりの神格なぞ、取るに足りんわァッ！」

乾・坤・印――第四天の妄執を唯一散らせる黄昏目掛けて押し返し、女神の抱擁を受けた水銀は安らぎに包まれながら消えていった。

満足したはずだろう。たとえ残影であろうとも、望んだ最上の終わりを迎えることが出来たんだから。
------------------------------
先に第四天の影が消えたことで、その自滅因子であるこの宇宙も後を追う。

Yakou granting Mercurius the death he wanted and deserved (finally)

 

[Tarang123]

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本来求道であったはずの波旬だから、たった一人になったときこそ無量大数の密度を持つ。求道型の覇道神という、完全に矛盾した存在として歴代最強に成り得たのはそのせいだ。

しかし、俺に対してだけはそんな出鱈目など通らない。他者廃絶という根幹の渇望に関わる俺の前のみ、波旬は並の覇道神という型に嵌ってしまうんだ。
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しかしそれでも、異物は異物だ。完成した天狗道の中で生じたそれは、たとえどんなに小さかろうと決定的な亀裂となる。
------------------------------
狂乱しろよクソ野郎――おまえは自己愛のみの塊だから、蚊に刺された以下の痛みにすら耐えられない。

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質量は未だ波旬の方が遥かに膨大。並の覇道神という型に嵌ったといったところで、それはそれでとんでもない代物だということくらい分かっている。


ゆえに俺一人じゃ斃せない。こいつを超えるには決定的な楔となるものが要る。

すなわち――

「ぐッ―――」

咲耶と刑士郎が育んだ命。

それをもって生じた天狗道の僅かな傷――

こいつはその温もりに耐えられないから――

「俺のォ――」

最後の小蓮台が浮き上がり、波旬の傷口から俺の畸形嚢腫が遊離していく。

Moksha stuff, Hajun stuff