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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

Tarang123 said:
Besides, gods should transcend their singularities (as for all possible expansions from other heavens as well? Highly debatable, but as for their own, it should be a given already, but there is a statement in Pantheon). You could probably argue 1A based on that alone, but that's just me. Anyway, I think Pain should probably head back to his Shinza revision cause Ant might close it.
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I have something to say about it but I don't have time rn. Will write a nice reply later.
 
Tarang123 said:
Alr...can you explain?
Click to expand...
They are both becoming stronger as time goes on
Tarang123 said:
Cause that's not at all what the quote says. The quote directly implies that Yato was nearing the Throne, so that would technically imply that he would eventually reach the bottom, no?
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Yes that was what yato felt, that he was nearing the bottom that was because he was already going mad at this point and tired, and the thing he wanted to do was sacrifice the EE to get to the bottom not by confrontation

As for god transcending the singularity, well without a godhead yes sure, but with a godhhead Nah

What they are facing is the godhead not the singularity
 
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...Transcending Singularity ? What does that even mean lol. Are you talking about "singularity is made up of colourless taikyoku so coloured taikyoku gods are automatically above it" ????
 
Odinson said:
...Transcending Singularity ? What does that even mean lol. Are you talking about "singularity is made up of colourless taikyoku so coloured taikyoku gods are automatically above it" ????
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No…it’s that they literally transcend it. If the argument was based on it being colorless taikyoku then the argument wouldn’t work cause madara exists and stuff.
 
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Pain_to12 said:
They are both becoming stronger as time goes on

Yes that was what yato felt, that he was nearing the bottom that was because he was already going mad at this point and tired, and the thing he wanted to do was sacrifice the EE to get to the bottom not by confrontation

As for god transcending the singularity, well without a godhead yes sure, but with a godhhead Nah

What they are facing is the godhead not the singularity
Click to expand...
That’s not at all what happened, yato himself could have definitely reached the bottom. He chose not to originally because he was stalling for his plan to work, however had he had a bit more time he definitely would have reached the bottom.
 
Tarang123 said:
No…it’s that they literally transcend it. If the argument was based on it being colorless taikyoku then the argument wouldn’t work cause madara exists and stuff.
Click to expand...
you should provide explanations on that stuff why they transcend every extension of singularity, since vsbattles wikia debunked that long back.
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
you should provide explanations on that stuff why they transcend every extension of singularity, since vsbattles wikia debunked that long back.
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I don't need scans for that because I trust him. Also if you are talking about Smash's thread then it didn't debunk "gods >= singularity" he debunked the "1-A+ layers of Singularity". His thread basically disproved that Singularity doesn't have 1-A layers. He didn't debunk "Gods >= Singularity"

Edit: that thread also had some randoms (mind you some of them claimed Mercurius can face hajun head-on and that Satanael when he reached the throne was a human ) jumping in and going on about how "Being a hole in a Canvas doesn't mean..." or whatever the f*ck that was I don't remember. But im sure no one claimed "Gods < Singularity" there (if someone did then that's lulworthy
 
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Odinson said:
mind you some of them claimed Mercurius can face hajun head-on
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When did this happen? I remember someone saying how the three colors could "fight" against Hajun as an argument against Taikyoku difference being a transcendence which is just lol-worthy tbh. I found it absolutely hilarious when I saw that moment seeing as Hajun absolutely shat on them with his mere existence and the only reason they didn't instantly die was because of "pride" and Hajun wanting to know whether they would cry if he erased everything.
 
I also think I saw someone claim that Yato wasn't in the singularity or how crossing it was "easy", which is just such a meme moment cause it was explicitly stated that Yato had clashed enough to breach a hole and was drilling in there for who know how long. The EE were in Shinsuu, another singularity where Hajun's influence was not as great, along with having Yakou Madara, Soujirou Mibu, and Shiori Kujou, three of the biggest exceptions to the Gudou norm with one being able to sink as deep into any singularity, one being able to slash anything, and the other being able to become truly infinite. The Throne being "right around the corner" was just because they had finally breached the final wall because Yato had already drilled through most of it.
 
Tarang123 said:
When did this happen? I remember someone saying how the three colors could "fight" against Hajun as an argument against Taikyoku difference being a transcendence which is just lol-worthy tbh. I found it absolutely hilarious when I saw that moment seeing as Hajun absolutely shat on them with his mere existence and the only reason they didn't instantly die was because of "pride" and Hajun wanting to know whether they would cry if he erased everything.
Click to expand...
It was in yuri's downgrade some user "Zero or something" said that.
 
座との関係
覇道神の巨大な質量に、世界は耐えることができないため空間もろともただ在るだけで破けてしまう。薄い和紙で山を支えるようなもの。そのため覇道神には超越者が腰掛けるべく存在する『座』と呼ぶべきものが必要となる。座を手に入れ、そこで流出が行われた時こそ、宇宙は完全に塗り潰され、新世界と新たなる神が誕生する。

Some stuff about the relationship between a god and their Throne.

その本質は”零”の時代にナラカに触れたミトラがナラカに対抗するために編み出した神の座。ナラカを認識した他者を別の物に組み替える理解不可能な力を基に、不変の祈りをもって他者の在り方を塗り替える行い、力や格で帰順を強いる征服、優れた者が劣る者を従えるという、こちら側の法理や原則に変換したもの。
すなわちナラカに全てが呑み込まれないように、宇宙を自身の覇道で覆い、守っているのが覇道神である。

The Throne system was built as a counter of sorts to the Naraka, and Hadou was supposed to protect the world from Naraka's influences.

他者の魂の保有
求道神と違い、他者の魂を取り込んで己の力と為すことができ、覇道神の強さは本人の格（周囲を染め上げる己の渇望力）と、それによって得た魂の保有量（支配領域の広さ、軍勢の数、質）によって決まる。

Stuff about how Hadou can use the souls of the opponent, which can help them win battles and stuffs.

他の覇道神が保有している魂を奪い取って己の力とすることもできるため、敵対する覇道神のほうが魂の保有量が多くても、魂を奪い取れれば逆転も可能である。結果的に覇道神同士の戦いは魂の奪い合いになり、元々の魂の量以上に渇望力の強さ、すなわち本人の格がものを言う。このために、座についた神が全宇宙の魂を保有しているにも関わらず、それより少ない魂しか保有していない挑戦者が勝利し得るのである。
逆に、魂を奪い取る能力のない求道神ではどんなに渇望力が強くても、座についた覇道神に勝つのは難しい。

Further explanation on that

なお、第六天波旬は例外的に魂を取り込めば取り込むほどむしろ弱体化し、魂を失えば失うほど強くなる(正確に言えば元に戻る)。
また、天魔・夜刀は保有する魂が一切ない己の渇望力だけで波旬以外の歴代覇道神を凌駕するという、別格の存在である。

Yato and Hajun are exceptions, and Yato surpasses all previous gods besides Hajun.

The main one was this one:

座との関係
覇道神の巨大な質量に、世界は耐えることができないため空間もろともただ在るだけで破けてしまう。薄い和紙で山を支えるようなもの。そのため覇道神には超越者が腰掛けるべく存在する『座』と呼ぶべきものが必要となる。座を手に入れ、そこで流出が行われた時こそ、宇宙は完全に塗り潰され、新世界と新たなる神が誕生する。
Click to expand...

rough context says that the supreme god (ie. Hadou) is to great and heavy for Creation, and would destroy the space with their mere existence. It would be like putting a japanese piece of paper under a mountain. Basically, they require the throne to properly emanate and fill the world with their color. So...the Throne's durability is definitely no joke.
 
Too lazy to get the JP version, so I'm just gonna post the one from the summaries:
Black and White, Blue and Red, Light and Darkness, Obverse and Reverse. Every single conceiveable, Dualistic, conflicting, rivalring phenomena, concepts, that exist within this world, all without exception existed here. Flowing, in continous change, a Great Mandala in the shape of a designed pattern, changing in a kaleidoscope like form while continuing to revolve. Infinite colours overflowed, and nevertheless, there was not a single independent thing here. They all have an enemy (furigana: couple), that always certain, under the auspices of the absolute Law. Quite like a microcosm of their universe. An embodiment of the world of Dualism, woven in textile of trascendent scope.
Click to expand...
 
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