azontr
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That was me exaggerating. The showings of her curse say that she can kill people like Mercurius who have 90 Taikyoku.
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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~
- Thread starter Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
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- shinza banshou
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It makes more sense. It can be said that Marie's law is stronger, but Mercurius wins because of his fighting abilities. Although i'm not sure.
That does not mean that Marie is weaker.
azontr
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That makes the most sense.
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They don't. Marie as a Hado is above Ren/Reinhard but below Mercurius.
And that's in Taiji value, so no combat abilities which are another value entirely.
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K3 guidebook is part of it but Masada clearly precised he was stronger if you removed the fact that Marie can kill him because he wants to.
Basically, if Merc decides that he wants to live and that Marie sucks, she won't be able to do shit to him.
azontr
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I never insinuated that Marie was above Ren/Reinhard, nor did I insinuate she was above Mercurius. They both have the same Taiji Value, but as a god Mercurius is above her, that's what I said.
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Except they don't have the same. Merc is the only one with 90 so far.
azontr
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That's untrue since Reinhard has to have 90, or else he wouldn't be able to fight Merc during the Rea Route.
So, unless I've been fed incorrect info, Marie has 90, and so do Ren and Reinhard.
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But based on this dialogue, it can be interpreted that Mercurius will be killed whether he wants to or not.
"To embrace your touch is a venture not even I would escape unscathed."
Because it was also never said that he would be killed just because he wanted to.
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The very proof of Merc having 90 has Masada putting Ren, Reinhard (except when he fights Merc but not really counting it) and Marie below him. So you can't use one part of his answer then discard the other.
And no you really don't need to have the same Taiji to fight each others. The Tenmas are proof of this, the EE too, and so is the thing implied with Satanael, or even Muzan fighting Mithra w/o Taiji.
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Masada flat out said so
That's really things we know and use since ages.
azontr
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Then that answer doesn't really prove he has 90 because Masada never gave a straight value. Maybe he did, I can't read Japanse lol. Just saying the answer you just gave me is a bad one, that's all.
Then that's just inconsistency on Masada's part because the gap between 1 Taiji and 2 Taiji has been displayed as absolute dominion over those with lesser taiji to my knowledge. It's like saying the EE could've fought the Tenma's had they'd been brought to full power, at 100 Taiji, without Habaki being juiced up on some kikei mandala shit.
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How is it a bad one?
Masada said Merc has around 90 after showing the top of who has a better Taiji value between the Gods, that's all.
Having a headcanon regarding Taiji doesnt make the work inconsistent. It's like saying a difference of 1 in any part of their profiles mean they have an infinity between each others (because the Taiji value are just a thing in their in-game profile, with their strength, speed, etc.. ones)
Only Yato was at 100 Taiji, the Tenmas never scaled to his own.
Besides they are just a proof of Taiji value being nothing since Kikei Mandala>Gudo>Tenma yet they could hold their own against it.
azontr
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That's unnecessary. I get my info from various Shinza Bansho wikis and my friends who have played the games, my canon is the canon I have access to, so don't be rude.
EDIT: Give me a bit and I'll answer with the information I have, and I hope you can just calmly debunk me if I happen to be wrong instead of just calling my take headcanon for no reason.
azontr
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Did you disregard where I said I cannot read Japanese? And you never specified, so it's a bad answer.
Does a Pseudo-God's level of Taiji not increase to match their Source God's level of Taiji? That was the case with the L.D.O.
Then pretty much all discussion involving this series' power scaling with the Gods is incorrect, fun.
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I specified that the answer where he said Merc had 90 had the others below him. I don't see how it isn't specific enough.
They all have different values.
Besides, the values of the LDO gang were never given.
Shinza being badly scaled is not a big secret to anyone. After all there's people who legit think any single god is above Hajun's Singularity and take it as a good argument.
And regarding Taiji value; I don't see how calling something headcanon is rude or without reason.
If you say the story is wrong or incoherent because it contradicts a notion you get from something external of it, then what is it if not a headcanon?
That's not like a headcanon was a bad thing, I have tons of them regarding some series.
azontr
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I never said it was without reason, but usually just calling somebody's take on something headcanon such as that is considered a rude response. Especially in the battle-boarding community where headcanon can be used as pretty much an insult to one's intelligence.
I could just be being overly-sensitive though. Or my experiences on sites like this have just made me expect the worst.
Meh, I'm pretty much the most knowledgeable guy who's never played the games
Good to know. I've been under the impression that "Elevated to the same level of existence as their god" meant Taiji values were equalized between the Pseudo-God and their Source God.
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Well, if it was from a work anyone could read I would likely have used it as an insult; but headcanons are more normal than anything for stuff like K3 so I don't see them as the guy's fault but just something's worth pointing out.
Oh no, that just means they gain Divinity and a Law.
There's a list of all the stats in K3 here (which includes funny stuff like Gudo God Ryuusui having nearly the same Strength value as Keishirou). Even if it's in japanese the names are more or less recognizable with google trad I think.
azontr
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PrinceofPein
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But of you are kind of right concerning the taoji value, taiji value is mainly in game mechanics in how to take the throne a lower God will never take the throne in a head on confrontation but in terms of battle taiji only plays a value if you are hajun then it does not matter since the difference in taiji is so great it is useless but then again this won't be accurate since muzan could take hajun finger.
Honestly masada is weird he retcons shot too much
Honestly masada is weird he retcons shot too much
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Tbh it isn't even always the case since Marie took the Throne from Merc and Habaki/Rindou from Hajun for instance. Or with things like Gudo being unable to be on the Throne.
Even Hajun case is not just Taiji but his raw power overall.
I think what people forget is that Taiji is just the same stat as the one for Distortion and not different from the others "power, physical strength, stamina, speed, charisma..." stats; it is never brought up as a stat in the story the same way you will not see a guy yelling "I have 36 in physical strength, surrender you fools".
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Masada said what? I did not understand what you meant.
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That Marie only could kill him because Merc wants to. But I rechecked and it's the guy who asked the top "strongest Taiji value" who said to not include stuff like Marie being able to kill Merc because he wants to.
Although it has always been p consistent in that way.
PrinceofPein
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Marie was more of merc releasing the throne, habaki and rindou was compatibility and plot armour. Godot gods is about personality as the cannot flow outward so it makes no sense for them to emanate, also this concise with Marie and merc as merc could not give Marie Marie throne due to her nature
Not exactly his increase in taiji value is what boosts him overall has stated many times and the only reasonable explanation for muzan taking his finger would be he no longer has a high taiji value since he cannot be reincarnated at full power by kouha just like schreiber and machina Briah could not be copied at full power.
This is funny, yes indeed taiji value is in game mechanics like I pointed out and should not be used when talking about the cosmology has it only makes sense in hadou fights
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When was this even told in the story or implied? if someone asks me to kill him with a sword, there is no reason why I could not kill him with a sword if he did not want to. Unless it was stated that he could reduce his durability and resistance or some.
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The reason Mercurius asked Marie could be that Marie did not normally intend to kill and opposed violence. She will not normally kill anyone unless asked to do so and her curse only fully works when she intends to kill. It is not that Mercurius will be killed only if he wants to.
I also found another statement that said Marie's curse could kill Mercurius.
It was told at least three times in the story that Marie could kill Mercurius, and only in one of them did Mercuris himself ask Marie to kill him.
I also found another statement that said Marie's curse could kill Mercurius.
It was told at least three times in the story that Marie could kill Mercurius, and only in one of them did Mercuris himself ask Marie to kill him.
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It was Mercurius's sensory made of nothingness not Mercurius himself. Yeah you can't effect nothingness because there is nothing, not even a neck for cutting it. Also, Marie curse does not work properly without the intention of killing.
And it wasn't even full powered Gudou Marie, it was her soul in the form of Holy Relic that, according to Rusalka, was not working properly and something was wrong with it. Holy Relic Marie even couldn't kill Tubal Cain, Eleonore, Machina and Reinhard.
According to Mercurius himself, "To embrace your touch is a venture not even I would escape unscathed."
Translation?
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The scence where Marie was going to kill merc in Marie and rea was also his sensory.
That’s her curse in ren anhnerbe form this is Marie in twilight beach when machina yeets her out of ren and she goes back i can get that scan if you want
“It pushes forward while tearing away the twilight that is entwined with the world, and reaches the seat of the present generation in an instant.”
“Only then does this person recognize others other than himself. For the first time, he saw something that could be compared to his super-heavy soul and world, albeit a little inferior.”
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question didn't the gudou gods once overload hajun? (defeat him by overloading him)
also why are they weaker?
also why are they weaker?
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They got an amp from tumor mandala which gave them always rising taiji
Gudou gods aren’t inheritnly weaker
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In the Marie route, it was not a sensory, but Mercurius himself, who easily stopped the attacks of Hadou God Ren and Hadou God Reinhard and was said to be the true form of Mercurius. Marie Route Mercurius also said that if he died, a new emanation will begin and Marie's law will take the world. In Rea route, Marie never tried to kill Mercurius. Nothing special happened between them at all.
What
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No. They were amped or some.
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Gudou Gods aren't inheritnly weaker. But because the Hadou Gods have bigger domains and more souls, they usually get stronger than Gudou Gods.
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but it didn't kill him right.
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Hemm it is interesting.
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I think Habaki killed Hajun and then Mercurius removed all possibilities of Hajun being born with causality manip.
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How was that not his sensory, his true self has to exist on the throne, and the merc that was in twilight beach has the same “wavy” appearance as in the rest of the route when he was in his sensory form by “wavy” I mean:
https://gyazo.com/9caf8ef1f58a52b4fc4a4aeb4d8088e9 Like that, his true self in rea endings has a more solid compact and you can actually see his arms but again his true self can only exist on the throne
“What”
I meant that The scan you sent was in reference to the potency of Marie’s curse in ren’s anhnerbe. Same with when he couldent kill elenore, Cain, etc, That’s not the Marie that was here machina yeets the guillotine, and she returns to her normal self in twilight beach, then merc acts sort of like a portal between gladsheim and twilight beach so shirou and kasumi could reach Marie again
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I can send the scan for it not being guillotine Marie if you want
