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Shin Megami Tensei Discussion Thread II

Okay, will list the profiles that should go with this description:

"Sufficiently powerful demons exist beyond time altogether, and are outside the laws of physics."

Loki

Thor

Morax

Matador

Ishtar

Lilith

The Moirae Sisters

Mada
 
Hm ? i dont really remember the demons being transend over the Law of Physic. Yes, the exist outside of time is one of the demons nature, but i think they are still bound by the law of the physical world.
 
> Immortality (Types 1, 4, 4 and 8), xD


well, question:


┬┐How Powerfull are the Character in SMT4:F/A Early Game? i Know they scale from bitch Slap Kind Frost, but (via in-game mechanics i think) they can sumon/fusion demons like Hatheor or even Morax who in SMT:SJ are UNiverse+ level, this is valid?


and his speed? minimum are Sonic to posibility FTL (more or less via no calc)


and in Mid Game? whe Know that the Party defeated Beings like Shesha, Maitreya, Azreal, etc, beings who minimum are Universe level (low-end) to Multiverse+ level beings...


it's correct?


PD: more especifis/descriptive the pages v:v
 
Don't think to hard about random encounters and game mechanics.

I for one don't scale them from random enemies and summons, but plot points and bosses. And it's best to use the Compendium to rank demons, rather than levels. Or else you'll have to admit that a bird demon might be stronger than Thor.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Don't think to hard about random encounters and game mechanics.
I for one don't scale them from random enemies and summons, but plot points and bosses. And it's best to use the Compendium to rank demons, rather than levels. Or else you'll have to admit that a bird demon might be stronger than Thor.
Click to expand...
personal, i dont know exactly about fusions demons and use these demons, for one intance is "canon" in the sence that demons that are "in you lvl or less" you can control and summon Without the problem of turning against you or not being able to control it well (state even in the first game) or "random encounters" when you avance in the History....


the other One, nop, is cleary In-Game Mechanics, a bird or Golden Dragon lvl (example) 69/90lvl that are only planet/star VS beings like Thor, the Green Penis in a Chariot, etc is inconsistence


i dont know about Morax or Hathor (or demos like this in Early game), because (use In-Game Mechanics) en SMT4:F/A i fuse in LVL 14 Morax and Hathor lvl18, i dont know shit like this is valid to scale the cgaracters....But in Mid Game is Obviusly that the Cast are minimum Universal+ to Multiversal+ (variable in teh game, like (early in mid-game or late in mid-game), immeasurable in speed (ignore the concept of time-space, range, distance, etc), etc :v

another One, if here the DLC of Stephen and the Mesiass are "Non-canon", we will separate this in his Pages apart?


and Cleopatra or Mephisto? :/
 
Ok, here's the deal:

You have to go by Compendium Feats, the game's story, and order of Boss Fights. Morax is Low 2-C because he has a Low 2-C feat. However, he is a Lv.8 demon or so in Strange Journey, meanwhile this guy is Lv.42:

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Rukh

And his compendium entry treats it being big enough to carry elephants on his back as a big deal.

Obviously, this can do.

Boss Order also helps. Mithra is fought as Boss 2 in SJ, so obviously he should be stronger than Morax. However, Boss Order can contradict itself in various games. Odin was never portrayed as anything higher than 2-C up untill Apocalypse, for instance.
 
Am I the only who noticed Danu pretty much went "Can I get a refund on my son?" when she just created another Dagda?
 
I wouldn't say it's "just creating another Dagda", her current one was faulty when it was received. Since the problem wasn't her fault, Kaneko gave her a new one for free, the only rule being she needed to get rid of the old one. I hear Atlus has some pretty great return policies.
 
What we don't know is that she just used the Demon Summoning Program. The reason she took so long is because she needed to learn how to use it XD
 
How is it fair that Mido lets her fuse Dagda, and not allow us to fuse him. He has infinite MP and access to lost hit, which would allow you to cheese any non-boss fight White Rider style.
 
I was checking Compendium Entries...

"A prince of Kosala and the seventh avatar of Vishnu. He is the protagonist of the epic poem, the Ramayana. He defeated Ravana the rakshasa, who was unkillable by neither god nor demon. His serious and earnest personality made him a popular hero in India."

— Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers 3DS Compendium

"Origin: Sri Lanka. The king of the Rakshasas. He has ten heads and twenty arms, copper eyes, and a body that can reach the clouds. After intense penance, he attained invulnerability from gods and demons. However, he was defeated by Rama, and avatar of Vishnu."

— Shin Megami Tensei A-Mode DDS Dictionary

If Ravana rendered himself "invulnerable", with no god nor demon hurting him, I think it's safe to put him at Low 2-C.
 
Ravana was the counterpart to Vishnu in SMT I. He should be a lower scale 2-A(Like Sanat, or the AoD) just like Vishnu. Most Avatars of Vishnu are weaker than the real deal however(With the massive exception of Krishna).
 
If that seems too crazy and stretching it, maybe 2-B would fit him better. The Archangels were fought after Vishnu and Ravana, and Asura(Asura Lord) was equal to Michael in that game. It could just be that Vishnu wasn't 2-A in that game, because if he was, the Archangels would be too.
 
So question. Would Cleopatra and Mephisto scale to Nanashi and the others? I mean they are supposed to be fought endgame. I could be wrong since I'm still unfamiliar with SMT scaling.
 
can someone help me to put a level to these demons:

-Ame no Uzume

-Sukuna Hikona

-Medusa

-Black Frost

-Frost Ace

-Futoma

-Kinmami n

-Adramalech

-Kama

-Siegfried

-Demoni-Hoo

-Amaterasu

-Alilat

-Rama

-The Fiends (all of them)

-Lucifunge

-Tenkai


thx
 
-Ame no Uzume(No Clue, maybe Hathor level, or King Frost level...............)

(Possibly even 2-C?, maybe, maybe not.)

-Sukuna Hikona(King Frost Level, possibly 2-C)

-Medusa(2-C, stronger than a Dominion and a Virtue, whom are higher ranking than the Power that helped you and Adramelech take on Shesha the first time.)

-Black Frost(Should Scale to King Frost, Possibly 2-C?

-Frost Ace(Should Scale to whatever Black Frost, or some of the Genma are.)

-Futoma(IDK..... Maybe he scales to Ame no Uzume, possibly even Amaterasu?)

-Kinmamon(I really have no clue......., he is a kind of Deity, so 2-C?)

-Adramalech(2-B, he should scale to Lucifer's other servants like Lucifuge and Arioch)

-Kama(No clue, at the minimum 2-C)

-Siegfried(I couldn't tell you anything about this guy outside of having heard his story. If Ravana gets 2-C for his feat, whoopee, Siegfried and Fafnir get it, Right?)

-Demonee-Ho(2-A, because Hee said Ho.)

-Amaterasu(Probably 2-A for being an important Deity in SMT, Does Susano-o scale?)

-Alilat(May or May not be considered "Game Mechanics", but should at least be stronger than Azrael, considering he's in nearly all of her fusions.)

-Rama(Scales to Ravana's ranking, whatever that may be.)

-The Fiends

-Matador is 2-C, so Hell Biker should scale to that(David and Plasma could possibly be this strong too.)

-Four Horsemen could be Archangel Level, or even 2-A. Chemtrail is weaker than that, Trumpeter is stronger.

-Mother Harlot is the strongest of all of the Fiends(Minus Alice), she should at least be at the level of other 2-A Megami, likely higher than that even.

By the way, when you said "all of the fiends", hopefully you didn't mean the weird ones like Ghost-Q or Father Time.

-Lucifuge(Adramelech and Samyaza level, he's not 2-A)

-Tenkai(IDK, maybe he scales to Maitreya. He is a National Defense Divinity, so there's that.)


lol these are probably all wrong

These are just guesses from what I can think of off the top of my head(Couldn't even guess alot of them). Lots and Lots of corrections will be needed overall, but if there's one I feel is right, it's Medusa.
 
is not "final" of early and "start" of Mid Game? obiusly is more than a simple UNiverse+ level, but his high-end feats an scaling/PS is my personal problem...
 
How strong are the four horsemen?

Apparently Belial sealed them in Shin megami tensei 4...

Edit:Nevermind, I just read the comments.
 
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