Shigeo Kageyama High 6-C upgrade

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I highly doubt he was remotely thinking that stopping the bombardment equals destroying islands.

And authors more often than not don't know the power of their characters. They know where they want them in the plot much more than that.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

The wiki uses calcs and real world's physics for fictional verses where people can move faster than light.Most of the time they don't care about things like "Mountain buster,building buster" etc,they don't need such things..They just know that character A is stronger or equal to character B.

Author>Calc.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Risci

True. But I mean the WoG statement of her already being able to take on BS and GS if she was healthy, alongside standing a chance against Garou who can be equated to Boros are feats not to ignore.

Also yeah I agree that the creator doesn't always know everything and can nerf them by accident.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Author>Calc.

Bullet level goku intensifies.


But seriously, the authors rarely know anything. By using the logic, every fight would litirally be "whatever the plot says".

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bullet level goku intensifies.

But seriously, the authors rarely know anything. By using the logic, every fight would litirally be "whatever the plot says".

That has little relevence here, as we have clear reason to doubt Goku getting harmed by bullets.

There is no reason to assume ???% Mob isn't comparable to a character written by the same author when the author directly claims he is, especially when the upper end of ???% Mob is never demonstrated.

The calc I made was him just walking.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It's definitely a case by case basis for sure.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That has little relevence here, as we have clear reason to doubt Goku getting harmed by bullets.

There is no reason to assume ???% Mob isn't comparable to a character written by the same author when the author directly claims he is, especially when the upper end of ???% Mob is never demonstrated.

The calc I made was him just walking.

I know, I simply said that that is a wrong statement in general.

Tough, the fact that he is faster could also be a reason for her to lose.


Regardless, I would prefer to keep it as a possibly until further stuff from Shigeo.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally uneasy with any type of crossover scaling, but seem to be outvoted, and Ryukama supports this case, so I suppose that it is hopefully fine.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Tough, the fact that he is faster could also be a reason for her to lose.

Regardless, I would prefer to keep it as a possibly until further stuff from Shigeo.

I'm not that knowledgeable about OPM so I'm not sure if speedblitzing would let ???% Mob, who is a casual 7-B w/out the scaling, beat Tatsumaki, a casual High 6-C.

I feel like a "possibly" would be a good compromise between the people who are uneasy about the scaling, yeah.

The manga is actually over, though, so new material on Mob Psycho 100 probably won't come for ages assuming ONE doesn't reboot it. So the feats I've posted on his profile are practically the only ones we'll see for noe.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

She never got hit through her shields, though there is nothing suggesting her body is as strong as her telecinesis.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Hm. Yeah, I suppose that would make sense, if he hits her before she can put up defenses.

I'd argue that espers can enhance physical strength through channeling psychic energy but that's only true for Mob Psycho Espers, and probably not Tatsumaki.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, she probably is superhuman like her sister, but their physical stats are hardly comparable to their telekinesis.

 

[GyroNutz]

I agree with a possibly/likely rating. Only real way that one would beat the other without them being comparable is if Mob has some way around psychic barriers that are always active.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should the Mob profile be updated?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think the consensus is having it as a "Possibly" rating for the scaling, rather that outright changing the statistics.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine.

 

[Ryukama]

I'd argue that espers can enhance physical strength through channeling psychic energy but that's only true for Mob Psycho Espers, and probably not Tatsumaki.

Tatsu was able to grab Saitama and push him through a skyscraper. As well as send him flying by flicking him. Of course Saitama wasn't fighting back at all but someone without superhuman strength couldn't do this. She can enhance her physical strength as well.

 

[Ryukama]

Also if people want just likely/possibly fine but I see anything wrong with Mob straight up being that rating. These are both ONE's characters and the 2 series constantly make references to one another. If we can accept Garou's rating based on ONE saying he's on par with Boros there's no reason not to do the same for Mob. Also what contradicts this? The fact that Mob ''merely walking'' isn't as powerful as one of her attacks?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Also if people want just likely/possibly fine but I see anything wrong with Mob straight up being that rating. These are both ONE's characters and the 2 series constantly make references to one another. If we can accept Garou's rating based on ONE saying he's on par with Boros there's no reason not to do the same for Mob. Also what contradicts this? The fact that Mob merely walking isn't as powerful as one of her attacks?

I agree completely.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I also think Mob being straight up High 6-C is fine.

 

[Andytrenom]

Mob speed blitzing is definitely a possibility now that I think about it. Tat's natural durability isn't on par with her psychic ability and she was actually badly injured by a high 7-C catching her off guard.

Now while this may be a way for Mob to beat Tatsumaki without matching her in AP I'm not sure if that's what the statement was supposed to imply. On that note, What was the exact statement anyway?

 

[Schnee_One]

So Tatsumaki goes to Sub Rel and Mob to High 6C?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

On that note, What was the exact statement anyway?

http://karma.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1477295308

#12, second to last line.

Translates to:

ONE: Mob against Tatsumaki is usually Tatsumaki, but if he gets serious, I am not sure.

Original text:

ÒâóÒâûÒü¿Òé┐ÒâäÒâ×Òé¡Òü»µÖ«µ«ÁÒü»Òé┐ÒâäÒâ×Òé¡ÒÇüµ£¼µ░ùÒüáÒüùÒüƒÒéëÒéÅÒüïÒéëÒü¬Òüä

 

[Huesito88]

Does this also mean Tatsu gets upgraded to Sub-Rel?

Wouldn't that scale to Saitama too? nvm he has better feats lol

I recall he was suppose to get a downgrade in speed, but I think he still will scale to a higher end feat.

 

[Schnee_One]

He would scale to Flasjy Flash

 

[Andytrenom]

Actually, if the statement was "I don't know who would win" then I don't think that's good enough for scaling.

Why can this not mean he legitimately doesn't know how the two characters compare in terms of power speed and other factors rather than a comment about the fight being close one with no clear victors?

 

[Andytrenom]

Also, wouldnt "serious Mob" more likely refer to 100% than ???%? He only goes into the later form unconsciously with isn't what getting serious usually implies.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

He claims that Tatsu wins before that though; I feel like he's more saying that the match is even or a tossup, in which case it's likely that they are comparable in some regard.

I personally take it as applying to both 100% Mob and ???% Mob, however 100% Mob has shown clear limitations in his battles with Keiji and Touichirou, whilst the full extent of ???% Mob was never really explored in the manga.

 

[Andytrenom]

Well, I do not think this statement alone is good enough to justify a rating.

My problem with that is "seriously" implies a character using his full power that he can access consciously, not using a form that relies on outside factors to even activate. If for example Escanor was to get serious, it wouldn't immediately imply going into his One form but rather just using the power he has at the moment without holding back.

 

[Andytrenom]

I checked the editing rules and this upgrade does not seem to obey them

Also generally try to avoid scaling between different fictions via author statements about one character being comparable with another. It will usually be very uninformed assumptions, or hyperbole, and even if both stories have the same author, he or she may be biased, or not know exactly how powerful the different characters have been shown to be in relation to each other.

Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertai, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh.

Well, oof, then.

 

[Wokistan]

Personally I'd be fine with putting it as a likely/possibly for his unconscious mind key. Hes already tier 7 by just sorta existing, and it's not really portrayed as anything others can hope to compare to.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Wok You make it sound like it being an outlier is the problem with the upgrade. It's not, the problem is the statement not being solid enough by our standard and likely not being directed at ???% in the first place.

 

[DMUA]

I mean, ONE is friendly and open to responding to these kinds of questions

It's just he kinda doesn't know and can't really give a clear answer

 

[Ryukama]

He claims that Tatsu wins before that though; I feel like he's more saying that the match is even or a tossup, in which case it's likely that they are comparable in some regard.

I agree with this. If characters like Regular Mob or Golden Sperm would definitively and without doubt lose to her, him stating that Serious Mob is uncertain is clearly him saying that Serious Mob's power is at a point where it makes it uncertain if she can beat him. Which clearly means at bare minimum he's on par with her. If he was significantly outclassed by her, he'd certainly lose, just like other characters who were stated to certainly lose to her.

The supposed extreme gap in Tatsu's dura and ap vs Mob would not be closed by Mob's slight speed advantage. Plus ONE obviously would've mentioned something like this if it were the case. Just like he made sure to mention Garou's martial arts would compensate for Boros's strength.

The statement is about ???%. That form is his strongest and emotion wise is when he's at his most serious. Also if it was already questionable if Tatsu could beat 100% Mob, then ???% would definitely curbstomp. However the statement is again just saying it's uncertain who'd win.

Also "we can allow WoG statements for their characters if they're from the same series but not if they're from 2 different series that constantly reference each other" is such a ridiculously arbitrary line to draw. If they're both the writer's characters he has WoG over them. And if we've decided that WoG can be used in the case that the story doesn't contradict it then we should be consistent with that.

 

[Wokistan]

Mob doesn't really have durability negation. For one to be unsure of the outcome of their fight, they'd have to be in similar power ranges. That both of them are established as extremely powerful relative to everyone else (almost everyone else in tatsumaki's case but you get the deal) helps with this idea.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Mob's only durability negation was showing umbrella-boi the power of friendship in like one page out of the manga.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ryu

Just from this one statement alone, I do not see why the clear conclusion is "Mob's power is on a similar level to Tatsumaki" and can't just be ONE being unsure how his characters compare to each powerwise. Also just because he is certain about Base Mob not being tatsumaki level, doesn't mean he would also be certain about a stronger Mob not being Tatsumaki level.

Okay so the speed+7-B AP interpretation is out of the window then? I'm fine with that.

ONE'S statement was "if he gets serious" not "at full power" or "at his strongest" or anything that implies a hidden power inaccessible by normal means being activated. His wording here implies Mob fighting without holding back anything and doesn't allude to anything related to ???% so I'm not convinced that's what he is talking about.

Maybe that particular rule won't affect things here but the rule about only allowing specific and detailed WoG statements still applies. I'm fine with Mob scaling to other ONE characters via statements but I'm not fine with this one. Because I don't feel this aligns with our standards at all.

 

[Ryukama]

If Mob's power was significantly outclassed by Tatsumaki's then she'd definitively be able to defeat him. But the fact that Mob getting serious gets powerful enough to the point in which it's uncertain if Tatsumaki even has the capability of defeating him, that obviously means at least they're on par with each other. Or let's just really lowball him and say that the fact that it is highly questionable whether or not Tatsumaki has the required strength to defeat Mob's strength somehow actually means Mob is 3 times weaker. Still High 6-C.

Plus even Tatsu's High 6-C feat in the first place was super casual. She didn't struggle in the slightest and there was absolutely no doubt that she was able to pull this off. And very easily at that. Yet there is doubt that she can overpower Mob? That would logically mean that overpowering Mob is a greater challenge than overpowering these shells were.

Read how he's phrasing the question. Regular Mob's power definitively loses, yet at his highest power is uncertain. He's comparing the difference between Mob's regular and his full power. One is weak enough to certainly lose, whereas the power is powerful enough to the point where it's uncertain if he can actually be beaten. Also I mean if ONE cannot determine in his head which one is stronger, he obviously wrote them having a similar power level in mind. If not, then again he'd certainly lose just like regular Mob and Golden Sperm certainly lose.

Okay so when Mob is using all of his strength, not holding anything back due to his mental barriers being removed and is emotionally at his most serious isn't serious for some reason? That doesn't make sense. Also again if even Mob's 100% form was comparable to Tatsu, then ???% would definitively curbstomp. By all accounts it only makes the most sense for ???% to be the one being referred to?

Also the whole "he can't obtain it under normal means" is irrelevant. Both 100% and ???% are special forms Mob only gets pushed into during extraordinary circumstances. Just because one of them is more rare does not suddenly mean that ONE just had to have been referring to 100%.

The context behind the answer is what is important rather than just citing some broad blanket rule. This isn't him being a troll and dismissing the question by just saying "I dunno". This isn't a fan bringing up some super trivia about the that he didn't remember. This is him directly comparing these characters by saying one of them is weak enough to make his defeat to this person decisive, the other is strong enough to make the outcome uncertain. In the same interview in which he even establishes that other characters less powerful than said person certainly lose at that. This should be seen as a valid statement regardless of what that rule says.

Lastly I'm sorry this is just nitpicking semantics and not going with Occam's Razor or what these statements most logically conclude to because he doesn't outright say this even though the meaning is pretty clear.

ONE said that when Mob goes serious it's uncertain who'd win. Logically and most simply that means Mob when he's serious is at least somewhat on par (or even at bare minimum 1/3) with Tatsu's power (or at least her super casual power). Not that for some reason even though ONE is certain regular Mob's power is weak enough to definitively lose to her, he isn't sure that a serious Mob would lose her even though it's thousands of times weaker than a super casual feat of hers, that "serious" does not actually mean Mob being serious rather when he's less serious and that the outcome is again uncertain even though he has form ridiculously weaker than the one that already makes the outcome uncertain.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given that Ryukama and other staff members feel so strongly about this, I suppose that we have to make an exception in this case, but I am still uneasy with going against the working rules that we have worked out through long discussions.