Shibai Ōtsutsuki vs 666:Satan - Ōtsutsuki God vs The Champion Among Gods

[Samlex1234]

"Since it was originally an ability only Otsutsuki could wield, Eida is unable to control Omnipotence, and it manifests by automatically changing her subconscious desires into reality."
It's "subconscious" nature js directly linked to Ada not being able to control it.

Orochimaru was sweating because someone who could no diff him is threatening to kill Sasuke? I sure wonder why could that be.

Same shit. A limitation is a weakness in this context lol.

No it denotes superior quality. There's a major difference between potency and quality.

You can have 10 layers of fear hax that is only potent enough to make you shiver and you can have fear hax with 0 layers potent enough to make you kill yourself.

Overcoming willpower simply requires a higher quality of fear manipulation, not higher potency as you're not actually overcoming resistance.

I'm pointing out that Sakura was actually terrified of Madara because of how strong he was. She even says it's because he "could have killed her at any point".

Which is consistent with her overcoming this fear by tapping into a state of nigh-immortality.

It's not a "move" at all when it's passive…

Not in combat. His EG comes from gaining an insane amount of knowledge which doesn't necessarily mean he'll be smart enough to perfectly predict what's going to happen.

Uhhh Satan once got BFRed for "few hours" and jumped from vaguely above 4-C to 3-B in a pitch black cave. Giving Satan any amount of prep time, especially near a sun which he can absorb energy from, is basically suicide.

Except even a single clone as much as sneezing in Shibais general direction completely vaporizes him. And given that reflection doesn't stop the actions from happening Shibai is basically digging himself a grave.

This was already addressed before. Worst case scenario Satan is copying otsutsuki physiology and resisting it entirely

And since the topic of NLF was brought up I'd still like to see any evidence Shibais omnipotence can even affect opponents hundreds of billions of times stronger (who grow with each second)

Satan is not coming out of the daikokuten

 

[DavidTPPM]

Satan is not coming out of the daikokuten

Yeah because he's not getting trapped by daikokuten in the first place. Satan could dodge omnidirectional sound attacks, I'm pretty sure a portal so slow nobody in-universe uses it for combat isn't catching him.

 

[Yeolban]

Satan's obliterating the wannabe god

voting Satan

 

[KaydeeX]

David, Eida can’t control omnipotence in the sense of how it’s used to “create worlds”. She’s able to manifest her subconscious desires from omnipotence, Making it an ability for someone who can fully yield it.
As for the rest of your arguments, i do not wish to continue since i’d keep repeating myself & most arguments stem from a place of ignorance.

I’ve said my vote for my reasons above.

 

[Iabihs]

As you Can see , Daemon isnt touching anyone and Boruto already heard the explanation to his ability, so it definitely reflects thoughts , that being said even a small action here can kill Shibai

Shibai has prescience tho, and thus can totally win this fight with right off the bat, that being said , so can Satan , This is Probably a incon with these conditions , if Satan in character likes having thoughts about what he will do to the enemy .

ill wait to see some other perspectives, leaning towards incon for now

 

[Samlex1234]

Yeah because he's not getting trapped by daikokuten in the first place. Satan could dodge omnidirectional sound attacks, I'm pretty sure a portal so slow nobody in-universe uses it for combat isn't catching him.

No then you have to read Shibai's page again, the BFR Kawaki used on naruto does not travel

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Whats Shibais answer to layered passive fear hax again? AP gap doesn't seem good for him.

 

[Iabihs]

And since the topic of NLF was brought up I'd still like to see any evidence Shibais omnipotence can even affect opponents hundreds of billions of times stronger (who grow with each second)

This is a NLF for strength Lmao

Yeah because he's not getting trapped by daikokuten in the first place. Satan could dodge omnidirectional sound attacks, I'm pretty sure a portal so slow nobody in-universe uses it for combat isn't catching him.

Kawaki uses it for combat, he does so against Boruto only to find Boruto an Absorb it , thats why he doesnt...



Voting Incon/stalemate due to omnipotence and nothing else

 

[DavidTPPM]

David, Eida can’t control omnipotence in the sense of how it’s used to “create worlds”. She’s able to manifest her subconscious desires from omnipotence, Making it an ability for someone who can fully yield it.

No the database literally says
"Since it was originally an ability only Otsutsuki could wield, Eida is unable to control Omnipotence, and it manifests by automatically changing her subconscious desires into reality."
It literally links the subconscious stuff to her incomplete version of the ability. Meanwhile nowhere does it ever say Shibai or other otsutsuki gods passively materialize their subconscious desires. It's only ever said purely as a side effect of Adas omnipotence being incomplete. Anything else is pure headcanon (and doesn't even make sense because materializing stuff subconsciously is undeniably a negative downside)

As for the rest of your arguments, i do not wish to continue since i’d keep repeating myself & most arguments stem from a place of ignorance.

Yeah I agree you keep repeating yourself despite me debunking said arguments many times before. I also agree your arguments stem from a place of ignorance, such as ignoring the entire context behind half of the scenes you mention .

No then you have to read Shibai's page again, the BFR Kawaki used on naruto does not travel

It literally creates a black portal that slowly wraps around you. Base Boruto could straight up activate karma and absorb through it before it could warp him away

That's absolutely not catching Satan who was later dodging attacks that spawn inside of him and dodged omnidirectional attacks lol

 

[Iabihs]

David Base Boruto is really strong post death , he isnt equal to base kawaki in any statistic anymore

 

[Samlex1234]

No the database literally says
"Since it was originally an ability only Otsutsuki could wield, Eida is unable to control Omnipotence, and it manifests by automatically changing her subconscious desires into reality."
It literally links the subconscious stuff to her incomplete version of the ability. Meanwhile nowhere does it ever say Shibai or other otsutsuki gods passively materialize their subconscious desires. It's only ever said purely as a side effect of Adas omnipotence being incomplete. Anything else is pure headcanon (and doesn't even make sense because materializing stuff subconsciously is undeniably a negative downside)

Yeah I agree you keep repeating yourself despite me debunking said arguments many times before. I also agree your arguments stem from a place of ignorance, such as ignoring the entire context behind half of the scenes you mention .

It literally creates a black portal that slowly wraps around you. Base Boruto could straight up activate karma and absorb through it before it could warp him away

That's absolutely not catching Satan who was later dodging attacks that spawn inside of him and dodged omnidirectional attacks lol

Dodging is not the same as absorbing. Him

 

[KaydeeX]

No the database literally says
"Since it was originally an ability only Otsutsuki could wield, Eida is unable to control Omnipotence, and it manifests by automatically changing her subconscious desires into reality."
It literally links the subconscious stuff to her incomplete version of the ability. Meanwhile nowhere does it ever say Shibai or other otsutsuki gods passively materialize their subconscious desires. It's only ever said purely as a side effect of Adas omnipotence being incomplete. Anything else is pure headcanon (and doesn't even make sense because materializing stuff subconsciously is undeniably a negative downside)

it literally says she “manifests the ability”, meaning it’s a subset of omnipotence that she wields unconsciously.

 

[KaydeeX]

Yeah I agree you keep repeating yourself despite me debunking said arguments many times before. I also agree your arguments stem from a place of ignorance, such as ignoring the entire context behind half of the scenes you mention .

yeah sure
you said Tobirama no diffs orochimaru
yeah sure
i didn’t wanna reply those since i’d be triggered by how much false info you’re spiraling

 

[DavidTPPM]

This is a NLF for strength Lmao

What?

Dedine NLF for me real quick.

Kawaki uses it for combat, he does so against Boruto only to find Boruto an Absorb it , thats why he doesnt...

Yeah he uses it in OFFGUARD Boruto (fails) after using it on OFFGUARD Naruto (even base Hinata can percieve it) just to never use it again on anyone in an actual direct confrontation. Shit is not hitting someone considered a combat genius in a verse where kids can perfectly predict the flow of an entire fight just from the destroyed battlefield.

David Base Boruto is really strong post death , he isnt equal to base kawaki in any statistic anymore

So? We see karma Boruto get blitzed by karma Kawaki so their base forms should be relative and yet Kawaki failed to BFR offguard Boruto.

Dodging is not the same as absorbing. Him

Yeah and offguard Boruto is not on guard Satan. Point is that it's more than slow enough for the opponent to physically react to and is literally never used in direct combat as a result.

it literally says she “manifests the ability”, meaning it’s a subset of omnipotence that she wields unconsciously.

1. That's not what it means.
2. Sharingan has basically the same relationship to the rinnegan, being an incomplete subset, and yet it has precog while the rinnegan doesn't.

So once again the idea that Shibai can subconsciously use omnipotence remains a headcanon pretty much contradicted by the manga

 

[DavidTPPM]

yeah sure
you said Tobirama no diffs orochimaru
yeah sure

Tobirama is sub-rel (and massively upscales from that value scaling above the likes of kcm2 Naruto) while Orochimaru is MHS+ (scaling relative to sage Naruto at best here).

Tobirama upscales from 6-C physically and gets to H6-B with paper bombs while Orochimaru is just 6-C.
Tobirama factually blitzes Orochimaru on the wiki.

i didn’t wanna reply those since i’d be triggered by how much false info you’re spiraling

Calling what I said "false info" just because you don't like it doesn't really help your case. But sure you do you

 

[Wesker018]

I vote Satan, GOH´s supporters arguments make more sense

 

[KaydeeX]

That's not what it means.
2. Sharingan has basically the same relationship to the rinnegan, being an incomplete subset, and yet it has precog while the rinnegan doesn't.

again, missed with your references.
Omnipotence doesn’t evolve. the correct reference would be Kakashi attaining Obito sharingan, yet, can’t achieve MS genjutsu potency. Obviously the 3 tomoe potency he previously attained would be applicable to Obito who has complete mastery and knowledge over the eye.

 

[DavidTPPM]

again, missed with your references.

You mean comparisons?

Omnipotence doesn’t evolve.

Never said it does, but since you say it doesn't can you prove that claim? And are you saying that if Ada became an Otsutsuki she wouldn't be able to use omnipotence?

Either way my point was that a "subset" or "lower" version of an ability can very much have its own unique properties in-universe.

the correct reference would be Kakashi attaining Obito sharingan, yet, can’t achieve MS genjutsu potency.

No it wouldn't.

 

[Samlex1234]

So? We see karma Boruto get blitzed by karma Kawaki so their base forms should be relative and yet Kawaki failed to BFR offguard Boruto.

You need to stop acting like the the speed is not equalized. Boruto perceiving it is useless if he could not absorb it because it spuns right on you.

 

[Success0906]

So, after I have skimmed through all the arguments, I have to one conclusion: I don't understand anything.

Shibai's supporters seem to be confused about Power Mimicry.

Ninjutsu in itself is not a superpower, it's like a technique everyone can learn eventually with training and studying. While Dojutsu are naturally biological powers that can't be copied. While the people did try to replicate it, it wasn't through pure practice, but scientific means. Of course, they won't be able to perfectly replicate it, they don't understand the nature of Dojutsu and stuff.

Satan can copy biological apparitions as easily as breathing. Not only that, he can also copy abstract things like the Sage's wisdom which literally bends the laws of physics, and borrowed powers which are a result of the user's imagination and beliefs; granting them conceptual manipulation (type 3) and subjective reality. And yes, they are already accepted and on the profiles.

So Satan can and will copy Shibai's powers.

Not only that, Satan would already know the strength Shibai posseses and will act accordingly.

Satan also has three layers of accepted passive fear manipulation and there is nothing Shibai can do against it.

Satan can easily outgrow Shibai in both speed and strength, even increase it knowingly if he wants to.

Satan also has High-Godly Regen, and has faced with attacks that are similar to Sukunahikona. And he simply fought back immediately after.

He should also have interdimensional travel since he is able to travel from the heavenly realm to the earth like nothing. Thus, cancelling Shibai's portal hax wincon.

And Satan is just too fast for Shibai to keep track of, anyway.

So yeah, not seeing how Shibai wins.

Voting Satan for my reasons.

 

[Samlex1234]

Also Shibai as total control of omnipotence he is easily do the same thing thing that eida did. In fact in the past Momoshiki said there is a high possibility that gods used omnipotence in the past to mend with humans memory. Shibai is putting satan under omnipotence easily.

 

[KaydeeX]

Tobirama upscales from 6-C physically

nothing puts him there physically
most are with ninjutsu and flimsy conclusions. and the blitz “difference” is about to change anyway. Orochimaru is comparable to V2 Naruto who should be superior to the V2 jin who are sub-rel.
using the current justifications are just bad, and assuming he did blitz he can’t use TPB more than once and that still wont kill oro. this isn’t really the place for this.

Never said it does, but since you say it doesn't can you prove that claim?

why is that my burden? it can’t because it hasn’t been stated or shown to do that

No it wouldn't.

once again, arguing from incredulity

 

[DavidTPPM]

You need to stop acting like the the speed is not equalized.

I'm not that's why I keep bringing up how people relative to Kawaki reacted to it and how he never uses it against people relative to him in combat situations.

Bro if speed wasn't equalized Satan could graduate college, have 3 kids with Shibais mom, and redraw all of Naruto with his feet before Shibai could even blink. Obviously I'm taking speed equalization into consideration.

Boruto perceiving it is useless if he could not absorb it because it spuns right on you.

Since it's relative to Satan he can just casually dodge it. Especially given he grows faster every second.

Also Shibai as total control of omnipotence he is easily do the same thing thing that eida did. In fact in the past Momoshiki said there is a high possibility that gods used omnipotence in the past to mend with humans memory. Shibai is putting satan under omnipotence easily.

Satan will see Shibai start shining in the air, read his mind, and grow some Otsutsuki balls to become immune to omnipotence

 

[Iabihs]

What?

Dedine NLF for me real quick.

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Satan hasnt demonstrated resisting that, but you assume he can not because hes resistant, but because hes billions of times stronger, which is irrelevant to the ability because thats not what were measuring


Its like Saying i can resist Reality warping because im 1000 times faster, its an illogical conclusion

 

[Samlex1234]

Satan will see Shibai start shining in the air, read his mind, and grow some Otsutsuki balls to become immune to omnipotence

Huh

 

[DavidTPPM]

nothing puts him there physically
most are with ninjutsu and flimsy conclusions.

You're arguing against what's in the profiles now and I'm the one ignorant one

and the blitz “difference” is about to change anyway.

I really don't care. It's an in-universe blitz difference. As in, Tobirama could react to and tag Juubito so fast kcm1 Naruto couldn't even see what happened.
Tobirama >>> kcm1 Naruto > sage Naruto > Jiraya ~ alive Orochimaru.

Orochimaru is comparable to V2 Naruto who should be superior to the V2 jin who are sub-rel.

Literally arguing against the profile is CRAZY work bro, just let it go at this point.
But I do enjoy reading stuff that ends up with the conclusion of hebi Sasuke ~ kcm1 Naruto

using the current justifications are just bad, and assuming he did blitz he can’t use TPB more than once and that still wont kill oro. this isn’t really the place for this.

Yeah this really isn't a place to argue about unaccepted layers and against values in the profiles and yet you are here, doing all it all.

why is that my burden?

Because you made the claim.

t can’t because it hasn’t been stated or shown to do that

Okay burden of proof unfulfilled, hitchens razor gg.

once again, arguing from incredulity

Ah yes arguing from incredulity = disagreeing with a completely nonsensical comparison. Big Ws

 

[Success0906]

Guys, focus on the match going on right now, not the pedophile and racist one.

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Voting Satan if it's not passive fear stomp

 

[DavidTPPM]

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

And now explain how what I said is NLF.

Satan hasnt demonstrated resisting that, but you assume he can not because hes resistant, but because hes billions of times stronger, which is irrelevant to the ability because thats not what were measuring

No I'm not saying Satan will resist it stop putting words in my mouth please. I'm asking for evidence Shibai can affect people nearly trillion times stronger than himself.

Because that's what yall are claiming he'll do so I'm asking you to prove it. Yk, basic burden of proof.

Its like Saying i can resist Reality warping because im 1000 times faster, its an illogical conclusion

Which is why I'm not doing it.
On the other hand saying he can affect characters billions of times stronger than himself is like me saying "My lighter can burn an entire mountain because it can burn a paper". Like you said, an illogical conclusion.

 

[Samlex1234]

Looks like you guys are neglecting the insane amount of prep time Shibai has via Daikokuten. He can stay there use prescience and choose the very best possible future to win (omnipotence ) lol. Guys Shibai do not even have to be on the battlefield to use omnipotence he can use it from his timeless dimension, he has an interdimensional range with omnipotence. Stop playing this was a stomp from Shibai's side, to begin with.

 

[KaydeeX]

You're arguing against what's in the profiles now and I'm the one ignorant one

brother, his AP feat physically by profile is him forcing madara to dodge his strike with a f*cking kunai

I really don't care. It's an in-universe blitz difference. As in, Tobirama could react to and tag Juubito so fast kcm1 Naruto couldn't even see what happened.
Tobirama >>> kcm1 Naruto > sage Naruto > Jiraya ~ alive Orochimaru.

Jiraiya≠healthy orochimaru
their only canonical interaction was when both were severely weakened
Orochimaru is soundly as fast as Hiruzen who could match Tobirama Jutsu speed.

Because you made the claim.

I made the claim based on what’s canonically shown.

Okay burden of proof unfulfilled, hitchens razor gg

huh wth?
i didn’t assert a claim without proof. I simply made a claim based on what has been shown.
why should it be my burden to prove something that hasn’t been stated

Ah yes arguing from incredulity = disagreeing with a completely nonsensical comparison.

yes and the reason for that being “nuh uh”

 

[Iabihs]

Which is why I'm not doing it.
On the other hand saying he can affect characters billions of times stronger than himself is like me saying "My lighter can burn an entire mountain because it can burn a paper". Like you said, an illogical conclusion.

No? A mountain has inherent heat resistance higher then Paper.
You havent been able to show that for Satan.
Again, this is illogical
Your literally assuming he has no limits to what he can resist as long as hes stronger. Its like Me Saying Shibai can resist Boros Viruses cuz hes stronger in verse....

Point out the difference between Satan and Mitsuki that relates to resisting this ability, if Mitsukis Resistance to this ability is a piece of paper and this ability is a Lighter,
Then Why is Satan a mountain? you havent been able to make a logical argument

 

[Success0906]

Guys, don't derail. You guys are circulating the same arguments over and over again. New people will have a hard time going over the arguments.

 

[Iabihs]

Voting Incon until new arguments arise / new people come to talk since im not repeating or replying to whats already been said

 

[DavidTPPM]

Looks like you guys are neglecting the insane amount of prep time Shibai has via Daikokuten.

No actually I very much addressed this. Satan can jump thousands of times into 3-B if left alone for few hours even without sun, if Shibai leaves him near a functional star he'll come back to a dimension filled with hundreds of gajillions of 3-A Satans.

Guys Shibai do not even have to be on the battlefield to use omnipotence he can use it from his timeless dimension, he has an interdimensional range with omnipotence. Stop playing this was a stomp from Shibai's side, to begin with.

Omnipotence doesn't work on Otsutsuki. Satan can copy genes of people and grow them in place of his.
Giving Satan prep time is literally the single worst thing you can possibly do because he'll copy everything he saw from you and come chase you trillion times stronger.

 

[Iabihs]

No actually I very much addressed this. Satan can jump thousands of times into 3-B if left alone for few hours even without sun, if Shibai leaves him near a functional star he'll come back to a dimension filled with hundreds of gajillions of 3-A Satans.

Omnipotence doesn't work on Otsutsuki. Satan can copy genes of people and grow them in place of his.
Giving Satan prep time is literally the single worst thing you can possibly do because he'll copy everything he saw from you and come chase you trillion times stronger.

you keep arguing about raw stats which is irrelevant to getting sniped from omnipotence from another dimension, he literraly already has higher stats, whats the difference between being a billion times stronger and a trillion times stronger? he oneshots shibai either way...

 

[KaydeeX]

Satan can copy genes of people and grow them in place of his.
Giving Satan prep time is literally the single worst thing you can possibly do because he'll copy everything he saw from you and come chase you trillion times stronger.

NLF
almost like saying ben 10 can copy goku saiyan genes

 

[Samlex1234]

Yep, this is a stomp. Shibai literally don't even need to be on the battlefield to win. None of satan attack has the capable range to affect Shibai.


Shibai range
Interdimensional with Senrigan, Omnipotence, and Claw Marks (By using Claw Marks, Shibai can traverse through entire dimensions Multiversal with Prescience (With this ability, Shibai can perceive a countless number of alternative realities



Satan range

Range: Interplanetary. 1 AU with Full Contact Karate (Punched Mori Jin from the Earth to the Sun), Several AU with telekinesis and gravity manipulation (Pulled Jupiter towards Earth

 

[DavidTPPM]

brother, his AP feat physically by profile is him forcing madara to dodge his strike with a f*cking kunai

I don’t care, stop arguing against the values in the profiles. Go change it if you don't like it .

Jiraiya≠healthy Orochimaru

Lmao literally from Jirayas page
Island level (Stated to be on par with Orochimaru

Orochimaru is soundly as fast as Hiruzen who could match Tobirama Jutsu speed.

He couldn't because Orochimaru and Hiruzen are both MHS+

I made the claim based on what’s canonically shown.

Then prove it. You asked why you should prove it I'm telling you because you made the claim. I don't care what you think you based it on PROVE IT

huh wth?
i didn’t assert a claim without proof. I simply made a claim based on what has been shown.

Then prove it. I'm still waiting for the evidence.

why should it be my burden to prove something that hasn’t been stated

Because YOU CLAIMED IT. Don't make claims you can't prove. Do I really have to explain basic burden of proof to you?

yes and the reason for that being “nuh uh”

You didn't even give a reason for why your comparison would be different. Hitchens razor once again.

 

[DavidTPPM]

you keep arguing about raw stats which is irrelevant to getting sniped from omnipotence from another dimension, he literraly already has higher stats, whats the difference between being a billion times stronger and a trillion times stronger? he oneshots shibai either way...

Yk why stats are an issue? Because simply Satan breathing in Shibais direction is enough to vaporize him. Meaning Satan taking a blow from his attacks will be still much more devastating to Shibai than Satan.