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Shenhe Tiering + Genshin Upgrade (Venti, Zhongli, Xiao, Andrius, Azhdaha (Genshin CRT) [NEW CRT IS NOW OUT]

Pikaman

Pikaman

He/Him
6,525
5,210
So I’m here to put forward this calc (alternative figure)

This puts Shenhe at 6-C

Shenhe doesn’t have a profile yet (R.I.P.) but it’s still important to address this now because of Xiao

Xiao is currently sitting at High 7-A, but he should be upgraded to 6-C. Shenhe may be incredibly powerful, even by vision holder standards, but she’s still human. Xiao is an Adepti, more specifically, an illuminated beast, “beings beyond the ken of normal mortals” (Extract from the Genshin Wiki). As one of the strongest of the Illuminated Beasts and Adepti in general, Xiao should certainly upscale from Shenhe.

It should also be noted that this upgrade doesn’t particularly contradict what is on Xiao’s page now, given the reasoning for his High 7-A Tiering is “should be superior to Beidou, who he was only impressed by for her feat of slaying Haishan, a sea monster stated to be as powerful as a deity.” (Up)Scaling to Shenhe makes more sense, as due to her impressive feats in her youth, as well as her Adepti training/upbringing, she should definitely be one of the strongest humans in the Genshin Verse (that we know of so far).

Edit: Just realised that the TNT figure is more than the Andrius Blizzard Feat, so Venti, Zhongli, Azhdaha and possibly Andrius probably need upgrading to 6-C, likely far higher as well (In their Prime keys, of course) (Andrius could potentially be 6-C, likely higher as he doesn’t quite compare to the Archons + Azhdaha in their prime) (Raiden Shogun is already high 6-C with the Musou no Hitotachi.)

Reasoning is the same as Xiao, they should be far superior to Shenhe (more so than Xiao by a decent margain), to the point where they probably are in different tiers. (Honestly I thought that Venti Zhongli and Azhdaha were already in High 6-C lol)

In Short:

-Xiao should be upgraded to 6-C

-When/If Shenhe gets a profile, she should likely be 6-C as well

-Venti, Zhongli, Azhdaha and Andrius (Prime Keys) should be upgraded to 6-C, likely far higher




EDIT: New Proposals based on the past 2 weeks

-Shenhe is 7-A

-Xiao upgraded to “High 7-A, likely higher

-Entire God Tier (Bar Raiden Shogun) is upgraded to “6-C, potentially higher”

-Potential Re-Calc of the Andrius blizzard feat using this?
 
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This is gonna sound pretty harsh, but this calc is a mess and I am not sure how a calc member could simply accept it like that. What rock did you use to get 28m? Could we have a screen shot of that? There are tons of rocks that look like this one which are maybe 4-5m high at most. Why not pixel scale? There are tons of things we know the height of that we can use. Why is 18km an assumption when we can clearly see that that is factually inaccurate? Why is 200km the assumption for its width? We are talking about a weakened Beisht who was trying to fend off everyone in front of her. No reason to waste energy on making it 200km wide. Beidou also tried to avoid it by outrunning it towards the sides. Oh and we actually see how wide it is (at least towards one side).
 
RatherClueless said:
This is gonna sound pretty harsh, but this calc is a mess and I am not sure how a calc member could simply accept it like that. What rock did you use to get 28m? Could we have a screen shot of that? There are tons of rocks that look like this one which are maybe 4-5m high at most. Why not pixel scale? There are tons of things we know the height of that we can use. Why is 18km an assumption when we can clearly see that that is factually inaccurate? Why is 200km the assumption for its width? We are talking about a weakened Beisht who was trying to fend off everyone in front of her. No reason to waste energy on making it 200km wide. Beidou also tried to avoid it by outrunning it towards the sides. Oh and we actually see how wide it is (at least towards one side).
Click to expand...
You might want to talk about that with M3X.
 
RatherClueless said:
Not sure what there is to talk about. These are obvious, glaring issues anyone can see. Calc member or not.
Click to expand...
What I meant is that you could point out the issues to him. You can also ask him for his exact reasoning for accepting the calculation since you said that you weren't sure why he accepted it.
 
I made this calc as my first ever proper interaction with this wiki and forum, and looking back on it just under 2 or so weeks later, having gotten a bit of a hang of how this place works (I hope) I can definitely see in hindsight some issues with clarification, and potentially in the math itself, but it still got the approval of M3X, so I posted it here. If there’s issues that need fixed with the calc I’m happy to do that.

I can’t get a screenshot of the rock I used for 28m right now, but I’ll edit this post sometime tomorrow when I have a chance. I’m gonna be blatantly honest, I didn’t pixel scale because I didn’t know how at the time, but the in-game navigator shouldn’t be a particularly controversial source of measurement, and if it is, there are pixel calcs for some of the GSF rocks I could probably get and adapt for this calc. In fairness, given the sheer enormity of the tsunami when compared to people like Shenhe, it’s clear that it’s not scaling to a rock of a height as tiny as 4-5m.

18.2525km is not a figure I see an issue with. Beisht wanted to wipe out that island (This is technically assumption of intent, but plenty of people on the original Calc Discussion Thread thought the same, and assuming she didn’t want to wipe out the island doesn’t leave a very clear answer of what she was really trying to do with it.) that’s how long the island is, so that’s how long the tsunami had to be. I could be wrong about something here but I don’t get how it could be any smaller.

I also stand by the width, it’s the general wavelength of a tsunami, the length of a singular wave of a tsunami, of which there would be many in an organic, genuine tsunami. They are surprisingly wide. Also, the width clearly runs off camera (I’ll post an image later)

“No need to waste energy” doesn’t make sense to me because this is very clearly an all-out, last stand attack. It is the big bad of the cutscene that nobody, including the traveller, seems capable of dealing with. After the attack fails, Beisht tries to flee. It seems definitely not something Beisht would have conserved energy on, the idea was to end the fight then and there with the strongest attack she could muster.

I could be wrong about a lot if not all of this, but I don’t see anything horrifically wrong with the calc, and whatever changes I need to make I can make, but the calc I have now, if a little unsourced, still mostly makes sense to me reading it back, if not entirely. Obviously I’m new though, and it’s up to the calc group and other users to decide if I’m just talking rubbish (which I very well could be at this point lol)

This is gonna sound pretty harsh, but this calc is a mess and I am not sure how a calc member could simply accept it like that. What rock did you use to get 28m? Could we have a screen shot of that? There are tons of rocks that look like this one which are maybe 4-5m high at most. Why not pixel scale? There are tons of things we know the height of that we can use. Why is 18km an assumption when we can clearly see that that is factually inaccurate? Why is 200km the assumption for its width? We are talking about a weakened Beisht who was trying to fend off everyone in front of her. No reason to waste energy on making it 200km wide. Beidou also tried to avoid it by outrunning it towards the sides. Oh and we actually see how wide it is (at least towards one side).
 
I remember people in the previous thread disagreeing with the 200KM as well and I could have sworn that had been edited out by now but I seem to have been wrong. Regardless I must say that I don’t see any reason to believe the wave was going to hit anyone not in Gunyun Stone Forest to fight as (to Beisht’s knowledge) everyone who was capable of fighting it was already there.

I am a layman in terms of calcs and natural disasters though, so maybe I’m missing something.
 
Wdinatx said:
I remember people in the previous thread disagreeing with the 200KM as well and I could have sworn that had been edited out by now but I seem to have been wrong. Regardless I must say that I don’t see any reason to believe the wave was going to hit anyone not in Gunyun Stone Forest to fight as (to Beisht’s knowledge) everyone who was capable of fighting it was already there.

I am a layman in terms of calcs and natural disasters though, so maybe I’m missing something.
Click to expand...
i thought people’s main issue on the other thread was the length of 100km, as something of that length seemed excessive for taking out the opponents Beisht had in front of her in GSF, that’s why I changed the figure to 18.2525km
 
I can't agree with this, I'm not going to be harsh like Rather but the variables and assumptions made for this are too arbitrary for me to accept this fully in terms of the tidal wave calc. The rest of the Genshin calcs are on thin ice for me already so I will draw a line at this.

There's still the pressing issue of Beidou that I find really makes the 18km figure fall apart or any km figure for that rather. She wanted to outrun the wave, which I feel like, isn't possible with the size and speed of her ship. Beisht's tsunami cannot be scale to other tsunamis because of the different circumstances involved in what creates either.
 
I also have to say another thing and is that Beisht just wanted to destroy the Jade Chamber and the enemies in front of her, the reason of why the Jade Chamber was remade was to use as a bait since it's the thing Beisht hate the most as the symbol of the defeat of her husband, and the reason of why Ningguang specifically send the Jade Chamber to the Gunyun Stone Forest was so innocents wouldn't be harmed by the fight.

So that and the fact that Beidou wanted to outrun the wave make very doubious that the wave is supposed to be 18km long.
 
Pikaman said:
In fairness, given the sheer enormity of the tsunami when compared to people like Shenhe, it’s clear that it’s not scaling to a rock of a height as tiny as 4-5m.
Click to expand...
That is based on nothing but subjective feelings. Not saying it's wrong (since I didnt do any measurements myself), but I am saying that it isnt actually based on anything either.

Pikaman said:
18.2525km is not a figure I see an issue with. Beisht wanted to wipe out that island (This is technically assumption of intent, but plenty of people on the original Calc Discussion Thread thought the same, and assuming she didn’t want to wipe out the island doesn’t leave a very clear answer of what she was really trying to do with it.)
Click to expand...
1. I dont see how that justifies 18km in any way.
2. She didnt care about the island. what she wanted to do was hit the people on the island/Jade Chamber/Alcor.

Pikaman said:
that’s how long the island is, so that’s how long the tsunami had to be.
Click to expand...
That's just not true. Not only is that island absolutely not 18km long, but it wouldn't need to be that long either. Where exactly did you get the 4.9px = 18km from? I dont remember there being a currently accepted size for Teyvat. Not to mention that the map isnt actually proportional what so ever, making any kind of map based size calc iffy to say the least. We can also tell from the cutscene that it can't be that long.

Pikaman said:
I also stand by the width, it’s the general wavelength of a tsunami, the length of a singular wave of a tsunami, of which there would be many in an organic, genuine tsunami. They are surprisingly wide. Also, the width clearly runs off camera (I’ll post an image later)
Click to expand...
They are this wide because tectonic plates are really wide. This just isnt a given here. We literally see how wide the tsunami is when Shenhe freezes it. It's not 200km. Not even close.

Pikaman said:
“No need to waste energy” doesn’t make sense to me because this is very clearly an all-out, last stand attack.
Click to expand...
If she can hit everything in front of her with a 200m wide wave, how is a 200km wide wave not a waste of energy? It wont make the wave any more deadly.
 
RatherClueless said:
That is based on nothing but subjective feelings. Not saying it's wrong (since I didnt do any measurements myself), but I am saying that it isnt actually based on anything either.
Click to expand...
This is very clearly not 4-5 metres, it’s not subjective at all
RatherClueless said:
1. I dont see how that justifies 18km in any way.
2. She didnt care about the island. what she wanted to do was hit the people on the island/Jade Chamber/Alcor.
Click to expand...
If she wanted to kill people on the island, she needed to cause severe damage to the island
RatherClueless said:
That's just not true. Not only is that island absolutely not 18km long, but it wouldn't need to be that long either.
Click to expand...
Given the almost unanimous disagreement on the current calc, I’m working on some other potential numbers for all 3 volume-related figures, so alternatives for the height will be on this CRT at some point, I just need a few days to gather everything.
RatherClueless said:
Where exactly did you get the 4.9px = 18km from? I dont remember there being a currently accepted size for Teyvat. Not to mention that the map isnt actually proportional what so ever, making any kind of map based size calc iffy to say the least.
Click to expand...
I got 4.9px = 18km from the Andrius Blizzard Calc, y’know, the map based size calc that currently is used to scale nearly the entire God Tier of Genshin?
RatherClueless said:
They are this wide because tectonic plates are really wide. This just isnt a given here. We literally see how wide the tsunami is when Shenhe freezes it. It's not 200km. Not even close.
Click to expand...
Again, alternative figures, I’ll supply smaller widths, because there’s definitely an argument for smaller numbers
RatherClueless said:
If she can hit everything in front of her with a 200m wide wave, how is a 200km wide wave not a waste of energy? It wont make the wave any more deadly.
Click to expand...
Fair enough-
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
So, what we gonna do here? Maybe re-calculating the feats?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m working on gathering a bunch of different methods of calculation, laying them all out here, and seeing what people think is best. This is one of the bigger feats we’ve actually seen in person in Genshin and considering Shenhe’s importance in scaling for people like Xiao I think we definitely need to get a figure on this feat as soon as possible.
 
has M3X commented about the calc yet or has anyone tried to talk to him on why he accepted it.
you can disagree with this CRT as much as people want but if we don't discuss with the calc person who accepted it why it was accepted it would still be a valid calculation unless convinced otherwise
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
has M3X commented about the calc yet or has anyone tried to talk to him on why he accepted it.
you can disagree with this CRT as much as people want but if we don't discuss with the calc person who accepted it why it was accepted it would still be a valid calculation unless convinced otherwise
Click to expand...
I've pinged M3X on the blog.
 
FanSyst said:
Hi, I don't know if this helps

vsbattles.fandom.com

(New) Shenhe freezes a large wave

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Looking at the research done on waves’ geometry you’ve shown here this calc is a lot better than the previous one. Not sure if there’s something you missed that’d make the truth between the two extremes (more islands being targeted or the wave forming with some distance from the islands maybe?) but good job regardless.
 
This may not be the right place for this but Why is Haishan High 7-A or what he scales to?
 
Gimme some time so I can handle this (hours). College’s being busy.
 
Shey said:
This may not be the right place for this but Why is Haishan High 7-A or what he scales to?
Click to expand...
"Low God Tier: For those who backscale heavily from Prime Barbatos and God Andrius; mainly consists of the baseline average for a deity, barring explicit exceptions such as Havria. High 7-A (1.32 Gigatons)."

"Prime Barbatos' effortless landscaping of Mondstadt: 1.32 Gigatons (High 7-A)."

I'm not sure about the exact reasoning of the scaling but this is what all deities scale to by default if they aren't particularly weak.
 
Shey said:
This may not be the right place for this but Why is Haishan High 7-A or what he scales to?
Click to expand...
Nehz_XZX said:
"Low God Tier: For those who backscale heavily from Prime Barbatos and God Andrius; mainly consists of the baseline average for a deity, barring explicit exceptions such as Havria. High 7-A(1.32 Gigatons)."

"Prime Barbatos' effortless landscaping of Mondstadt: 1.32 Gigatons (High 7-A)."

I'm not sure about the exact reasoning of the scaling but this is what all deities scale to by default if they aren't particularly weak.
Click to expand...
This and the fact sea monsters on the level of Haishan had their defeat associated with Rex Lapis and his mountain sized spears rather than just generally the adepti. Not to mention that the statement was in the context of explaining why he’s such a legendary beast.
 
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