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Shantae FRA for Weeb's reasons.
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Shantae vs Ultear (because the first thread was shut down over dumb arguments)
- Thread starter AquaWaifu
- Start date
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Well, at least I don't have to count votes this time.
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You can just sit back and watch the...well I was gonna fire but isn't going bad so, uh. I got nothing.
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Shantae FRA for Weeb's reasons as well.
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Are you... really comparing characters using items we know they use, and that we know how they use them because they are explicitly meant to work like that, to Shantae using an item in a way she never has and is never hinted to have tried to?ShakeResounding said:
Are you seriously not using enough brain power to understand you are comparing a character using an orb that cancels magic in a 20ft radius, using said orb just for that, and Shantae using a cream for evading obstacles and described in game as used for getting past enemies instead of attacking them without reprisal for attacking, as the same thing?
Yeah, am done with this thread. When things get this dumb there's really no more arguing to be done. Is like its impossible to get it in your heads none of the characters you are bringing up, which is literally none as you are giving no examples exactly because there are no others, don't have this same problem because the way they use it isn't implied.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Alright, we're putting an end to this particular argument. We will agree to disagree about the vanishing creme and let others decide for themselves what to think. Every possible argument for and against it has been said here and in the other thread. If it's brought up again, I will request this be closed and never made again.
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I could quite honestly care less if this particular fight is brought up again or not. I am more worried that what I am trying to say is flying over everyone's head, so this shit is gonna happen again regardless.
The moment Shantae's specific situation got compared to literally any video game character we have here told me enough about how much what I am saying is being understood.
The moment Shantae's specific situation got compared to literally any video game character we have here told me enough about how much what I am saying is being understood.
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Ultear: 3 Votes - Shantae 5 votes
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There's none to be made. That's already how we do things.
There's just a terrible misunderstanding what I am even saying which was made obvious when phrases like "video game characters in general shouldn't be able to do anything".
And quite obviously you don't understand yet. I haven't even seen a single example what character would be affected by what I am arguing.
There's just a terrible misunderstanding what I am even saying which was made obvious when phrases like "video game characters in general shouldn't be able to do anything".
And quite obviously you don't understand yet. I haven't even seen a single example what character would be affected by what I am arguing.
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- Thread starter
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I will say this
"videogame descriptions for in-game mechanics and abilities do not take priority over the implementation and application by players and thus the character."
Shantae's vanishing cream has a MAIN focus on evasion but its not the sole purpose of it, and Shantae has no reason to try and get away from her fight with Ultear when she has a huge advantage to end the fight on HER terms through it. She's stronger overall, can still teleport despite Ultear gettin rid of most of her magic and obvious to Ultear equipment that coudl be used against her but that still leaves Shantae with very sudden explosion magic that would be difficult for Ultear to negate before she takes damage from it, and phasing through her orbs means SHantae can pursue and get aggressive on Ultear without worry. Now since her tiara wouldnt be a source of power obvious to Ultear, she woulnt think it would have any kind of property like "regenerates/locks Shantae's magic from depleting., to her it would just a head accessory shantae is wearing, it doesn glow, Shantae would have no reason to say anything that would hint to its propertiejs, and thus Ultear wouldnt think to time manipulate it.
Now Ultear COULD win if she hits Shantae BEFORE she uses the cream OR even sees her applying it and negs it in the process, but I imagine by then Shantae will tried to use pikeballs, her bubble shields, and various magic which would tip her off to Ultear's abilities and would probably teleport off to some part of city out of sight to quickly apply the cream before Ultear finds her.
It seems so far the CRT is swaying against Ultear gaining the ability to hit Shantae when she is intangible and I STILL havent seen an actual LINK that shows she see/sense her when she would be invisible. (last thread said "search Lucy but uhh nohing came up in ctrl+f so....yeah still irritated about that.)
This battle is very lopsided shifting between both winning depending on a ffew little details.
"videogame descriptions for in-game mechanics and abilities do not take priority over the implementation and application by players and thus the character."
Shantae's vanishing cream has a MAIN focus on evasion but its not the sole purpose of it, and Shantae has no reason to try and get away from her fight with Ultear when she has a huge advantage to end the fight on HER terms through it. She's stronger overall, can still teleport despite Ultear gettin rid of most of her magic and obvious to Ultear equipment that coudl be used against her but that still leaves Shantae with very sudden explosion magic that would be difficult for Ultear to negate before she takes damage from it, and phasing through her orbs means SHantae can pursue and get aggressive on Ultear without worry. Now since her tiara wouldnt be a source of power obvious to Ultear, she woulnt think it would have any kind of property like "regenerates/locks Shantae's magic from depleting., to her it would just a head accessory shantae is wearing, it doesn glow, Shantae would have no reason to say anything that would hint to its propertiejs, and thus Ultear wouldnt think to time manipulate it.
Now Ultear COULD win if she hits Shantae BEFORE she uses the cream OR even sees her applying it and negs it in the process, but I imagine by then Shantae will tried to use pikeballs, her bubble shields, and various magic which would tip her off to Ultear's abilities and would probably teleport off to some part of city out of sight to quickly apply the cream before Ultear finds her.
It seems so far the CRT is swaying against Ultear gaining the ability to hit Shantae when she is intangible and I STILL havent seen an actual LINK that shows she see/sense her when she would be invisible. (last thread said "search Lucy but uhh nohing came up in ctrl+f so....yeah still irritated about that.)
This battle is very lopsided shifting between both winning depending on a ffew little details.
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... You just shot yourself on the first line. Again, my issue has never been the fight, but what is being argued. I still think Ultear wins, but that is secondary.
We never assume something that would need input entirely from the player is something that'll just happen. Which is my main point, Literally try to argue any video game character with a broken combo of abilties used by a lot of players uses that combo, or thinks of using it, with nothing else indicating he would, you are gonna face a lot of doubt. Blank is a perfect example in the past thread, and he has been in the wiki for a pretty long while as well. This is not something I am imagining or that needs a CRT.
We never assume something that would need input entirely from the player is something that'll just happen. Which is my main point, Literally try to argue any video game character with a broken combo of abilties used by a lot of players uses that combo, or thinks of using it, with nothing else indicating he would, you are gonna face a lot of doubt. Blank is a perfect example in the past thread, and he has been in the wiki for a pretty long while as well. This is not something I am imagining or that needs a CRT.
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Am I honest to God talking in another language? You even focused on the least important detail of what I said. The combo is an example because that is the most common thing, I am not saying the Vanishing Cream thing is a combo. See? If this flew above your head you can imagine why I think what I am trying to say is not even being understood at all.
But yes, Shantae magically know she can still attack her and goes at it.
But yes, Shantae magically know she can still attack her and goes at it.
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@Aqua
If you want to argue something that is not backed up by anything more than the audience's opinion of "well this is technically possible", I hope you won't mind me doing the same when I say Ultear just freezes Shantae solid. After all, she has Ice Make and it, as Gray has shown, can freeze blood. Should be fair game, no?
If you want to argue something that is not backed up by anything more than the audience's opinion of "well this is technically possible", I hope you won't mind me doing the same when I say Ultear just freezes Shantae solid. After all, she has Ice Make and it, as Gray has shown, can freeze blood. Should be fair game, no?
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I'm genuinely unsure what your argument even is at this point. Nothing about the cream would keep Shantae from choosing to attack. From her perspective the cream makes her invisible and intangible, who wouldnt go on the offense if they used something like that in a fight?
Theres nothing preventing her making that decision to start attacking once invisible and intangible.
The in-game description says "let's you walk past enemies" this is a simple message to let players know it basically makes them invincible for an amount of time. It allows you walk past them unnoticed and you can through solid material, the keyword being "Lets" meaning to allow, she is enabled to walk past them unnoticed, and that in no way means she COULDNT interact with them if she so chose to.
Theres nothing preventing her making that decision to start attacking once invisible and intangible.
The in-game description says "let's you walk past enemies" this is a simple message to let players know it basically makes them invincible for an amount of time. It allows you walk past them unnoticed and you can through solid material, the keyword being "Lets" meaning to allow, she is enabled to walk past them unnoticed, and that in no way means she COULDNT interact with them if she so chose to.
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This thread is trash
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Obvious statement is obvious.
Either help make it worse faster so we can close it already or hush ovo
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It is pretty trashy.
And yes, you are telling me the equivalent of thinking Shantae just knows she can attack people while intangible... despite being intangible. So she would divine this. And just like I thought, you don't even understand what I am argunig in the first place. This really has been a waste of time.
And yes, you are telling me the equivalent of thinking Shantae just knows she can attack people while intangible... despite being intangible. So she would divine this. And just like I thought, you don't even understand what I am argunig in the first place. This really has been a waste of time.
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Welll...yeah duh.
@LSirLancelotDuLacl ohhhhhhh NOW I get your argument, you think her becoming intangible she'd come to the conclusion she COULDNT attack and thus wouldnt.
Hmmm Im just going to let others debate on that since I still disagree. I find the logic and reasoning behind that flawed.
@LSirLancelotDuLacl ohhhhhhh NOW I get your argument, you think her becoming intangible she'd come to the conclusion she COULDNT attack and thus wouldnt.
Hmmm Im just going to let others debate on that since I still disagree. I find the logic and reasoning behind that flawed.
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No, I am saying there's nothing indicating she would think it is a possibility in the first place. Unless you really think someone's first thought after becoming intangible would be "surely I can still touch stuff, right?".
The only things that indicates this is the fact players can do it, and what players can do is something we don't account for... at all. Because the player is not the character.
The only things that indicates this is the fact players can do it, and what players can do is something we don't account for... at all. Because the player is not the character.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I mean, maybe not "surely I can still touch stuff", more of a "you never truly know unless ya try", but if you all are finally ending this stupid argument, well I ain't getting in the way.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Clearing this up felt necessary so stuff like this wouldn't crop up again, which would be a bigger pain.
And I mean, try and see how many people trying out Shantae even think of attacking after using Vanishing Cream. These people don't also have to deal with homing orbs coming for their ass meanwhile.
And I mean, try and see how many people trying out Shantae even think of attacking after using Vanishing Cream. These people don't also have to deal with homing orbs coming for their ass meanwhile.
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Welp the Though projection CRT has been concluded and it ended negatively in the other T.P users favors so Ultear can not be currently argued to have have non physical interaction, soul manipulation etc. She has almost no real answer (I only say so since I refuse to deal in absolutes, there might be something Im missing) to deal with Shantae if she is able to put on her vanishing cream.
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Bump
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Bump
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Bump
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Bump
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Bump...I really want this to end at this point.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Are we still doing this?
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Yep.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Bump
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Bump
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Bump
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Soon...it shall end.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Two down, three to go. Bump
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I forgot the vote count.
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At this point peoples are tired with this thread due of how awful the debate is, at worst it might affecting Shantae reputation here >.>
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