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Shalltear Bloodfallen vs Donquixote Doflamingo

CinCameron20

CinCameron20

5,107
1,786
Doflamingo can not use Parasito

Shalltear can not use Gate or Implosion (she can resurrect herself once, however)

Battleground: Alabasta Desert -- both fighters starting from 500 meters away.

Both fighters have knowledge of the opponents abilities. Combat and Reaction Speed equalized

Both bloodlusted: Doflamingo using Bird Cage, Black Knight/Awakening and Shalltear using Einherjar/Household servants from the start

Victory: Death of opponent


Shalltear: 3 Doflamingo: 2
Bloody Valkyrie
This betch.

Donquixote Doflamingo Manga Infobox
Doffy
 
From his profile, he's much stronger and durable, and would run in circles around her if speed wasn't equalized.

Nerfing her spells like that doesn't help either.

Doflamingo wins.
 
@Jucas Shalltear is At least Large Mountain level and dura, as opposed to Doffy's small island AP and dura (Small island/large mountain are interchangable, changes nothing)
 
Jucaslucas said:
I always thought that Small island was way above mountain level...
Click to expand...
Well that's for normal Mountain level. Or for 7-A. Small Island level is on the same tier as Large Mountain level.
 
Oh I guess she has a bit less hax than I remember, whoops, still she can make clones, regenerate, summon powerful undead, create omnidirectional attacks, teleport at least a few hundred meters, create force fields that are completely invulnerable (at least up to small island level), become intangible via her mist form, and she can reverse damage dealt to her three times, so that is still quite a bit of hax.
 
Shalltear can heal herself with her Spuit Lance, Regenerationn and time reversal. Can she use Greater Lethal on herself? That would be another way of healing. She also has the edge in the number of summons, that she can also use for healing. Einherjar can fight by itself, but i'm pretty sure Doffy needs to control Black Knight manually, which would distract him from the fight. He could always stop using it, but he would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers if he did that. Shalltear also has teleportation and invisibility. Not to mention Purifying Javelin, that could be undodgeable if she wanted to. She would obviously be covered in more and more blood over the duration of the fight, so Blood Frenzy's power increase would be a significant problem for Doffy. She could also use some of the blood as mana for her spells. She would also have an edge in mobility, since she can fly by herself while Doffy needs clouds. This takes place in Alabasta, so there won't be that many clouds.

On the other hand, Shalltear's killing intent would make Doffy's precog extremely useful, and it would be hard to land a solid hit. His haki completely negates her intangibility, and he's also more skilled. He also has more range.

I give it to Shalltear. There's just way too much stuff for Doflamingo to go against here, and his only advantages are precog, skill and range.
 
@NotEvenHuman

Black Knight can fight independently. Doflamingo didn't need to focus on it while it fought Luffy. Doflamingo has a basic level of observation haki, so invisibility would be rendered almost useless. I don't see you discussing Doflamingo's awakening as a factor when it is allowed.

But anyways, this makes it 1 for Doflamingo, 1 for Shalltear.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@NotEvenHuman
Black Knight can fight independently. Doflamingo didn't need to focus on it while it fought Luffy. Doflamingo has a basic level of observation haki, so invisibility would be rendered almost useless. I don't see you discussing Doflamingo's awakening as a factor when it is allowed.

But anyways, this makes it 1 for Doflamingo, 1 for Shalltear.
Click to expand...
Oh, i see. I thought he needed to control it manually, since it's made out of his strings. I'm not discussing his awakening because i don't know how strong it really is due to it's lack of feats.
 
Oh yeah I forgot about his Haki negating some of her advantages (how did I manage that lol) but Shalltear still has better numbers due to being able to summon undead and familiars, and has a good amount of methods to heal with so I'd say she takes this.
 
@Blahblah Haki wont allow him to hit her in mist form anyways... but do you have nothing to say about his CoC or superior speed coming into play?
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Blahblah Haki wont allow him to hit her in mist form anyways... but do you have nothing to say about his CoC or superior speed coming into play?
Click to expand...
CoC would neutralize some of her summons, and that's it. Also, you equalized speed.
 
@Notevenhuman I see, but it grants him a massive environmental advantage overall given that he can turn an area around him (covering at least a kilometer in diameter) into threads and that he can imbue haki into them.
 
NotEvenHuman said:
CinCameron20 said:
@Blahblah Haki wont allow him to hit her in mist form anyways... but do you have nothing to say about his CoC or superior speed coming into play?
Click to expand...
CoC would neutralize some of her summons, and that's it. Also, you equalized speed.
Click to expand...
WHAT The... oh... I meant to give her equalized reaction and combat speed. UGH
 
Teleportation neutralizes the speed advantage since its only movement speed. Also I almost forgot to ask, what's the weather like? Clear or cloudy? And CoC would probably stop some of her weaker summons but it wouldn't have too much affect on the outcome especially with her flight... I think
 
I fixed it... but now that I think about it, I may have normalized speed but allow her to use her self-resurrection item. Speed equalized is always a thorn in my side.

About the range of Doflamingo's awakening, it was just from what I scaled from Doflamingo and Luffy's height and when he used Billow White. It is not to say that he can only manipulate them within a kilometer because he has shown to go over the height of the Flower Hill with them. I'm just saying that he has a greater environmental advantage if he is using awakening.
 
@Blahblah it is mostly clear with maybe a few small clouds. I pretty much neutralized Doflamingo's flight by restricting Bird Cage and putting them in Alabasta.

CoC isn't limited to Fodder crushing. It can be used in combat. Doflamingo, Luffy, and Chinjao have shown using CoC when fighting eachother. The effects of Luffy and Doflamingo's CoC clash blasted Law several meters away from the immediate area and shook the entire Flower hill while slowly decimating the palace. It enhances their attack potency considerably as well as the aoe of their strikes. Doflamingo used it on his "Athlete" when he kicked Luffy, which would have resulted in Luffy being blasted a couple kilometers away given the angle and speed he was flying at.
 
Examples of Doflamingo using CoC in combat: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/2 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/783/13
 
NotEvenHuman said:
@CinCameron If speed is unequalized, Doflamingo blitzes. Ressurection doesn't help against that.
Click to expand...
Well, then I'll leave it as combat speed equalized.... I'll give her the ability to resurrect herself, but I'm going to give Doflamingo Bird Cage since I pretty much forgot she could fly (she has wings and her profile pic... how did I forget)
 
Well, I am going to leave it like this.

Doflamingo's restrictions: Parasito (has hax if it connects to Shalltear) and that Shalltear has equalized combat and reaction speed

Shalltear's restrictions: Gate and Implosion... the latter due to hax.
 
Eh, IMO, Shalltear is a lot more versatile and her spuit lance regens HP by inflicting damage, making her extremely hard to solo for characters that don't rely on dodging everything (speedy ones). With speed equalized, its tough for Doffy to keep up.

She also has a copy that = her, perfect flight, spatial hax, one resurrection, decent regen outside of Spuit (time reversal and otherwise), mist evasion, undodgeable attacks (purifying lance) and lots of information based skills (hence, she basically gets some types of prior knowledge).

Doffy only really has precognition, some regen and limited flight to combat this.

The only REAL thing that Doffy has going for him is that Shalltear is like a newborn, in that she has limited battle experience. She is still a decent strategist, however.

Based on all this, I'd say Shalltear.
 
I gave equalized combat and reaction speed. travel speed is noraml (so that Doflamingo isn't cheated since Shalltear can use teleportation, but requires mana to do so). But what about Doflamingo's own tactical ability (it wouldn't matter too much given that both are bloodlusted).

Doflamingo's flight is not limited within birdcage given that he can fly practically anywhere within it.

I do agree that Doflamingo's tendincies to block rather than dodge would make this fight hard on him early on, but he has shown capable of dodging at impressive speeds (evading hawk gatling without a single blow touching him and Grizzly Magnum). He also doesn't have to be defending with his body/armament haki, he could simply use Spider thread or Goshikito to block or parry.

That's all I really have to say. I don't vote since they are both close in terms of ability and tier but I don't know everything about Shalltear as of yet (except Implosion = hax so bye bye).

So now it is 2 for Shalltear 1 for Doflamingo.
 
you initially stated Shalltear "due to hax" but went on asking about the terrain, how haki would come into play, etc... so I didn't count it.

Also, Doflamingo's tier is now exactly like Shalltear's -- being "Likely higher than High 7-A" so I'd ask everyone's opinions again.
 
I will go with Shaltear due to Einherjar which is more like 2 Shaltears against doffy and his "Black Knight" which isn't essentially as powerful as the real doffy.
 
She does have Regenerationn, but Doflamingo has regenerative capabilities due to his strings being capable of repairing damage that would have otherwise killed him after a few minutes. She also does have the ability to negate damage from attacks, but only three times a day. She can also bring herself back to life, but that's all i find to be a major hax.

About what you said about Shalltear's clone: it can not use spells but has the same stats as Shalltear. Doflamingo's Black Knight is very similar: being at least comparable to Doflamingo in terms of physical ability, but also being able to utilize some of his normal thread attacks.

I feel like Doflamingo is being underestimated due to the fact that he had tanked most of the attacks from both Law and Luffy, but both were faster than him (Law can teleport by swapping himself with objects and Luffy's 4th Gear is faster than 2nd Gear) but Doflamingo could still evade their attacks in some cases. I also don't see any of you talking about his Awakening when he'd be willing to utilize it from the start.

I might give my vote for Doflamingo soon, but that's to be expected *looks at my profile pic* lel. (look below for my reasons as to why I find that it would be too hard for Shalltear to take the advantage over Doflamingo)

Shalltear has some Regenerationn, flight, high level summons, some spacial hax to avoid taking damage, a Lance that has the ability to heal her if she deals damage to her opponent, ability to return to life once, invisibility, mist form to go intangible for some time (haki does not work as this isn't a devil fruit unless verse equalization makes it so), teleportation, increased range due to her magic (utilizing flames and light among others), she can also use plenty of curses, etc...

Doflamingo has some Regenerationn via threads, pseudo flight, superior range (reaching dozens of kilometers with Bird Cage... 7.5+km with Overheat, superior movement speed, environmental superiority due to his ability to convert the area into threads and use them as a weapon/defense, he can use Armament haki to a highly proficient level (since he specializes in it due to his Observation haki being fairly basic in comparison), and he can use Conqueror's haki, which would render Shalltear's lower level summons null and void and increase the amount of damage she would take if Doflamingo's physical blows connect to her body.

If we're to look at Shalltear against Doflamingo, she would require her teleportation to evade any attack coming from his awakening that she can not immediately parry or block (or use Force Sanctuary, but that would make her start expending her mana early on). If she were to use teleportation to get within melee range of Doflamingo (both have prior knowledge... and she wouldn't due to the massive risk), he could use his Goshikito to parry (or jump out of the way) and immediately shut her down with Break White, but like I said, she would not do such a thing early on given the massive risk and that their reaction/combat speeds are equal.

Shalltear could use her spells that would connect to Doflamingo such as Vermillion Nova in order to slow his attacks down in order to get an opening, but such attacks would be only a bother to Doflamingo given that he can use the most basic ability of Armament haki to encase his body in invisible armor in order to resist the effects of the attack (like he did versus Aokiji and Sanji).

Black Knight and Einherjar would very likely cancel eachother out given that both are at least comparable (Black Knight falling behind since it can not use haki) to their originals in terms of durability and physical abilities, but Black Knight having access to more of his original's abilities.

All of Shalltear's weaker household creatures would either be destroyed via CoC or by Doflamingo's awakened threads.

If Doflamingo manages to distance himself from Shalltear and fights from a long range using his Black Knight, Awakening, and long ranged thread abilities like Overheat and bullet thread, he could very well wear Shalltear down, but she is more than likely to find an opening to exploit and begin dealing damage to Doflamingo.

If Shalltear runs out of mana during an extended fight, she would be held at an incredible disadvantage against Doflamingo, who even if he were to be mortally wounded by an assault later on, could fight effectively with his awakening abilities. She would not be able to escape if she were grappled by Doflamingo's threads and struck by Flap Thread.

Still, Shalltear could still utilize attacks like Purifying Lance and Time reverse without mana (though only 3 times each).

If Shalltear is forced to resurrect, she will not regain her mp.

I see Doflamingo winning this mid~high difficulty due to vastly superior range (a few hundred meters vs dozen+ kilometers), his ability to use his devil fruit powers even if he is running on very little stamina, CoC haki vs Shalltear's household summons, the fact that Shalltear would desperately need to be melee range to access most of her regenerative capabilities with her lance, Doflamingo's armament haki mitigating most if not all of Shalltear's spells, and that Doflamingo's basic level of Observation haki renders invisibility and force explosion practically useless.

Shalltear's ability to come back to life does not reset her mana or her limited spells. She would still be at a disadvantage even if Doflamingo is injured beforehand.
 
He's only dozen+ kilometers with Bird Cage, but...

Shalltear specializes in long term fights, so the type of fight you are describing is very disadvantaged for him. She also would be the one who knew more of his abilities from the get-go, as some of her spells are tailored to gathering information.

So you describe situations that could happen but that are rather doubtful and just lead to Doffy getting worn down.

Anyways, his best advantage is experience but that doesn't save him from the wide versatility gap that exists here.
 
CinCameron20 said:
and she wouldn't due to the massive risk
Click to expand...
LMFAO.

I don't think she would care about the risk of getting close to him, considering:

1. It would let her heal herself and deal considerable damage

2. He's more or less equal to her

3. She won't even consider the possibility of losing. She is from Nazarick, after all.

Also, CoC doesn't make her summons completely useless. She still has some of the stronger ones, and she can just stab the ones defeated by CoC to heal. Doflamingo's "Regenerationn" is vastly inferior to hers, too. Btw, Bird Cage is useless. She can just teleport out of it.
 
@ Alakabam

Birdcage covered a diameter of 43 kilometers. its range is island.

Shalltear specializes in fights with multiple opponents. Not long term fights if she is against a single ranged opponent that can avoid being struck from her melee-ranged attacks and can keep pace with her.

I stated that both have prior knowledge of the other, so she does not have an advantage in that category.

@NotEvenHuman

If she gets within melee range, he can still react to her attacks and she KNOWS this due to prior knowledge. He also has precognition, so if she were to go melee range, he would be able to react to it and thus defend.

1) If she gets within melee range, she would be at a disadvantage especially if Doflamingo's awakening is active. It would essentially be her commiting suicide.

2) Yes, but she would be foolish to get close to him and risk being cripled just to land a couple blows that he can block or parry with his threads.

3) She would consider the possibility of losing if she knows that her opponent is a threat. If she lets her arrogance persuade her that much, then I have more reason to believe that Doflamingo would defeat her.

Her household summons have been shown vanishing after being destroyed. CoC would do the job. CoC has capabilities to kill if potent enough. Shanks caused WB's crew to have seizures and all of them were fatigued and fell over. Doflamingo did the same to the G5 marines.

Another person who thinks "Bird cage is only used to close the opponent in" ... smh... Bird Cage allows Doflamingo to utilize his Spider Thread and fly anywhere within the cage's environment.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@ Alakabam
Birdcage covered a diameter of 43 kilometers. its range is island.

Shalltear specializes in fights with multiple opponents. Not long term fights if she is against a single ranged opponent that can avoid being struck from her melee-ranged attacks and can keep pace with her.

I stated that both have prior knowledge of the other, so she does not have an advantage in that category.
Click to expand...
43 kilometers is nothing. A common "teleport" can teleport you, at least, 500 meters. Greater telportation doens't have a range restriction.

She's completely made to long fights and multiple opponents. She's the guardian of the first floors for a reason.
 
Yes, she specializes in fights against several, lower level enemies.

But she also counters mages and long term fighters.
 
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