-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BlackBeard vs Doffy
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
- 43
- 2
well then I guess Teach FRA.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,604
Damn didn't expect it to be this close.
- 5,107
- 1,786
If it weren't for the scaling descriptions being inconsistent, then there would be 0 confusion for the tiering and who scales where.
It SHOULD be: Doffy gives scaling to Aokiji who is >/= Ace, who is < Blackbeard. NOT Doflamingo = Ace < BB wherever this random nonsense comes from.
Already brought this stuff up in more recent revision threads just for it to be brushed off as "Nah, they're accurate af. No flaw at all!" (ignoring many flaws, including the fact that Aokiji scales to Akainu who's description says he gets High 7-A specifically for stopping WB's attacks and 'being stronger than any Yonko commander' when the former is 6-B and the latter is never stated nor proven in ANY sense).
Doflamingo is not equal to Ace, who is weaker than Blackbeard. That has literally 0 merit and revisions are never going to go through because certain individuals (NOT Fix, just FYI. This is not shade directed at him) refuse to look at how wrong the profiles are for the High 7-A chain.
It SHOULD be: Doffy gives scaling to Aokiji who is >/= Ace, who is < Blackbeard. NOT Doflamingo = Ace < BB wherever this random nonsense comes from.
Already brought this stuff up in more recent revision threads just for it to be brushed off as "Nah, they're accurate af. No flaw at all!" (ignoring many flaws, including the fact that Aokiji scales to Akainu who's description says he gets High 7-A specifically for stopping WB's attacks and 'being stronger than any Yonko commander' when the former is 6-B and the latter is never stated nor proven in ANY sense).
Doflamingo is not equal to Ace, who is weaker than Blackbeard. That has literally 0 merit and revisions are never going to go through because certain individuals (NOT Fix, just FYI. This is not shade directed at him) refuse to look at how wrong the profiles are for the High 7-A chain.
- 1,866
- 332
Doffy FRA
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,604
True all the descriptions need to change somewhat, even the Yonko as their was confusion as to how they were sclaing to 6-B (apparently none of the profiles linked back to whitebeard)
- 2,426
- 476
I actually agree with @Cin that some of the scaling statements are way off (to be clear though I do NOT AGREE with his conclusions).
Ex: Duffy's feats are blown way out of proportion up to even his feats of getting over powered by Gear 4.
Anyway I'm not sure if the Duffy reasons count. No offense to anyone bu they seem to be going off of @Cin's reasosn. @Cin states that Duffy is not </= but that is contradicted by both feats and the current scales. There's no evidence he would fair better against Teach. If anything he may fair worse since Teach was holding back on Ace.
Ex: Duffy's feats are blown way out of proportion up to even his feats of getting over powered by Gear 4.
Anyway I'm not sure if the Duffy reasons count. No offense to anyone bu they seem to be going off of @Cin's reasosn. @Cin states that Duffy is not </= but that is contradicted by both feats and the current scales. There's no evidence he would fair better against Teach. If anything he may fair worse since Teach was holding back on Ace.
- 43
- 2
Aokiji weak ice cant do a dam thing to him. Lucky he chose to leave
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Whis - Learn. To. Read. For. Once.
Aokiji is supposed to get scaling FROM Doflamingo. Not the reverse.
Aokiji is supposed to get scaling FROM Doflamingo. Not the reverse.
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Fix - I already pointed out that even if BB is stronger than Doffy, there's still other factors for Doffy to win since abilities like BHole and BVortex are incredibly unlikely to land--and we don't know many other of his abilities while Doflamingo is more fleshed out and has far superior range and attack options + Haki (BB doesn't have Haki as far as we are aware, so... yeah).
However, this is only regarding if BB is > Doflamingo, which I disagree with--current scaling doesn't exactly justify this since the descriptions state that Blackbeard "Matched Ace blow-for-blow" in their duel, only noting that BB overpowered Ace's strongest attack with his own--another reason why the profiles are in severe need of a re-do.
Current scaling suggests the following: BB is = Ace who is </=/> other commanders (who scale relative to Aokiji or Katakuri, the latter being < Bound Man Luffy physically) and also scales </=/> Aokiji's attacks... and Aokiji scales to Akainu who scales... stronger than commanders (0 reasoning since Marco stopped him on the spot and was one of the characters who completely halted him from chasing Luffy. The only one he overpowered was Ace cuz Magma>Fire)... and to WB's quakes (Still high 7-A, but okay)... VERY contradicting.
Doflamingo's is: somewhat < Bound Man Luffy but took an attack from Aokiji (again, the wonky scaling after this).
So tl;dr... Current scaling BASICALLY says BB = Doflamingo because... BB = Ace </=/> Other Commanders/Aokiji... and Doflamingo is < Bound Man Luffy but </=/> Jozu and Aokiji....
Okay the
Like I said, scaling is F'd and makes 0 sense, but every time i point it out, it's shoved under the rug, and it gets worse every upgrade/downgrade lol.
However, this is only regarding if BB is > Doflamingo, which I disagree with--current scaling doesn't exactly justify this since the descriptions state that Blackbeard "Matched Ace blow-for-blow" in their duel, only noting that BB overpowered Ace's strongest attack with his own--another reason why the profiles are in severe need of a re-do.
Current scaling suggests the following: BB is = Ace who is </=/> other commanders (who scale relative to Aokiji or Katakuri, the latter being < Bound Man Luffy physically) and also scales </=/> Aokiji's attacks... and Aokiji scales to Akainu who scales... stronger than commanders (0 reasoning since Marco stopped him on the spot and was one of the characters who completely halted him from chasing Luffy. The only one he overpowered was Ace cuz Magma>Fire)... and to WB's quakes (Still high 7-A, but okay)... VERY contradicting.
Doflamingo's is: somewhat < Bound Man Luffy but took an attack from Aokiji (again, the wonky scaling after this).
So tl;dr... Current scaling BASICALLY says BB = Doflamingo because... BB = Ace </=/> Other Commanders/Aokiji... and Doflamingo is < Bound Man Luffy but </=/> Jozu and Aokiji....
Okay the
Like I said, scaling is F'd and makes 0 sense, but every time i point it out, it's shoved under the rug, and it gets worse every upgrade/downgrade lol.
- 2,426
- 476
^Darn I just closed all my tabs showcasing feats too. I didn't think you would respond this late. Okay no links then.
What factors? Why unlikley? There aren't any valid that I read.
Again I agree on some scaling probs but that includes Duffy as well. Bottom line Duffy has no reason to scale above Ace.
What factors? Why unlikley? There aren't any valid that I read.
Again I agree on some scaling probs but that includes Duffy as well. Bottom line Duffy has no reason to scale above Ace.
- 5,107
- 1,786
1) You are free to believe what you want. But the profiles suggest several things in Doffy's favor such as a) BB's lack of Haki, b) Doffy's superior range, c) Doffy's flight, d) Doffy's threads being invisible to the eye, and e) the fact that Doffy is at the VERY LEAST comparable to BB in AP/Dura stats. I could go on and on, but I think this is sufficient enough reasoning for why Doflamingo is more likely to win.Dr.Fix said:
2) You misunderstand. Doffy and Ace have no relation in the scaling chain at all--except that both of them get scaling from Aokiji in varying degrees (which is incredibly ironic considering it should be the reverse as this makes 0 sense). Doffy doesn't scale > or < Ace. And BB's page suggests he is = to Ace. Therefore Doflamingo and BB's flat stats are equal in value currently.
What SHOULD be the case (regarding BB and Doflamingo's link) is the following:
Blackbeard scales from being stronger (unknown value >) than Ace, who melted an attack from Aokiji (So either = or < Aokiji since we can treat heat as a counter to cold), who scales from Doflamingo (Since Doflamingo didn't want to fight him, Aokiji is comparable at minimum, but bias doesn't justify </=/> for either of them--I think Aokiji is stronger, but again, that's a bias), who scales inferior albeit comparable to Bound Man Luffy (Withstood a beating while injured and his threads deflected attacks from Luffy on-panel), and significantly above Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy.... who currently scales from Fujitora.
So whatever the case, Doflamingo's connection to Aokiji and Aokiji's connection to Ace are both a bit wonky as we can't debate if Aokiji is stronger or weaker than either of them with flat facts. What is obvious is Blackbeard defeated Ace, but considering their fight was... off-panel for the majority... it's hard to say if BB is indeed stronger, or not. I mean, Ace did wound him.
- 14,574
- 5,874
Kurohige has been confirmed a Haki user in the Databook.
He lacks feats tho.
He lacks feats tho.
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Calaca - i only bring it up because we don't have it on profile, and he never has an in-canon (minus databook) implication to even have it.
- 5,107
- 1,786
No.
- 14,574
- 5,874
He does have it listed on the profile.
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Calaca - That's strange for it to be on his P/A list, because it's not even mentioned under his notable attacks >_>
- 14,574
- 5,874
Cause I'm a lazy bitch.
- 4,112
- 194
In impel down he was able to feel Luffy's Haki and and said it had gotten stronger. Doesn't that indicate he has Haki ?
I know we don't consider vivre card databooks otherwise Mihawk and Beckmann would be 6B but the vivre card databook does say that BB has both Keb and Buoshoku Haki.
I know we don't consider vivre card databooks otherwise Mihawk and Beckmann would be 6B but the vivre card databook does say that BB has both Keb and Buoshoku Haki.
- 29,957
- 25,125
That doesn't indicate he necessarily has Haki, just knowledge of Haki.
- 43
- 2
No haki would be pretty pathetic.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Bruh. If he can feel haki that means he has haki. I literally remember it being stated that you need haki to feel how strong your opponent is
- 29,957
- 25,125
One of the powers of Observation Haki is being able to sense how strong someone is, but that's not objective proof by itself. He only commented on Luffy's Haki increasing after being hit.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,604
Yeah but we know he got haki, we only making an assumption with Blackbeard and he hasn't exactly shown it yet.
- 5,107
- 1,786
Akainu literally stated Vista and Marco to be "Haki users" immediately after they struck him.
Armament doesn't need the black coloration at all. it's seen used without it by Sanji (only stated once during his fight with Judge) then we see him use hardening vs Drake in one panel (unless that's a shadow or drawing error).
(Meanwhile, Kenbun is implied many times, yet never confirmed unless stated by a character or databook)
Anyways, BB is confirmed using both types of Haki, but this doesn't really matter since his application can only be argued as rudimentary at best from what is shown. Doffy has a severe advantage in both Haki and he also has Haoshoku.
Armament doesn't need the black coloration at all. it's seen used without it by Sanji (only stated once during his fight with Judge) then we see him use hardening vs Drake in one panel (unless that's a shadow or drawing error).
(Meanwhile, Kenbun is implied many times, yet never confirmed unless stated by a character or databook)
Anyways, BB is confirmed using both types of Haki, but this doesn't really matter since his application can only be argued as rudimentary at best from what is shown. Doffy has a severe advantage in both Haki and he also has Haoshoku.
- 5,107
- 1,786
At this point, i'm done acknowledging any argument you make. You're just coming off as very pretentious and straight-up deny the fact that Doffy has numerous advantages that are blatantly obvious over Yami BB.
