Shadow Fight Upgrade That Should Have Been Done In The Past

[Jeeeeepil123]

Seeing this thread here have been gone quite over a month without any progress, i am deciding to make a new one in hope to gather more input (i also have more justification to strengthen the fact)

I already created a cosmology pages for all of the arguments, the only thing is now to decide which character that should get scaled into:

• Tenebris obviously should be scaled to the portal, as he is literally the one who created the structure.
• Shadow will be scaled to Tenebris for a reason that he can beats him, even though Tenebris were holding back to against a mortals like Shadow
• The Immortals should be scaled too, atleast being Low 2-C as Tenebris himself stated that they too are responsible on destroying the worlds using the portals
• Architect should be scaled to Real World (Self-Explanatory)

Agree: ActuallySpaceMan42, Catzlaflame (Low 2-C & 2-B)
Neutral:
Disagree: Catzlaflame (Low 1-C)

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

Just wondering, why is The Descendant not higher or equal to Shadow or Shadow Mind? (Considering that the player controls them in SF3, and therefore they have canonically defeated Shadow and Shadow Mind, they should be equal or stronger?)
(This is within the main series though, not the spin off)

 

[AstraOmega]

Melihat thread ini sudah berjalan lebih dari sebulan tanpa kemajuan apa pun, saya memutuskan untuk membuat thread baru dengan harapan dapat mengumpulkan lebih banyak masukan (saya juga memiliki justifikasi lebih untuk memperkuat fakta)

Saya sudah membuat halaman kosmologi untuk semua argumen, satu-satunya hal sekarang adalah memutuskan karakter mana yang harus ditingkatkan:

• Tenebris jelas harus diperluas ke portal, karena dialah yang sebenarnya menciptakan struktur tersebut .
• Shadow akan ditingkatkan ke Tenebris karena suatu alasan dia bisa mengalahkannya, meskipun Tenebris menahan diri untuk melawan manusia seperti Shadow
• The Immortals juga harus ditingkatkan, setidaknya menjadi Low 2-C karena Tenebris sendiri menyatakan bahwa mereka juga bertanggung jawab menghancurkan dunia menggunakan portal
• Arsitek harus disesuaikan dengan dunia nyata (Penjelasan Diri)

Dejavu

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

Dejavu

Why is it in Bahasa Indonesia/Melayu?

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Considering that the player controls them in SF3, and therefore they have canonically defeated Shadow and Shadow Mind

It was temporary, iirc.
You can ask SF3 stuff to @Richard5128pm

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

It was temporary, iirc.
You can ask SF3 stuff to @Richard5128pm

OK, thanks for the help.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Don't know the verse, but if I understand what I read properly I suppose Low 2-C, 2-B, and Low 1-C are fine.

 

[Catzlaflame]

The first scan you link is broken which is the one linked to the words “a portal.” The machine translations should be double checked for accuracy.

Low 2-C and 2-B is fine I guess. Still a bit suspicious, but I can’t certainly say I have an issue.

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

The first scan you link is broken which is the one linked to the words “a portal.” The machine translations should be double checked for accuracy.

Oh my apologies, i have fixed it.
Here is the image so you don't have to re-checked the page, its not that important tho.
The MTL have been double-checked and is already been put in the profile long before this Cosmology Page is created, i'm just taking one of them.

Low 2-C and 2-B is fine I guess. Still a bit suspicious, but I can’t certainly say I have an issue.

Alright then

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

How is it hyperbolic when all of the scan seems to be consistent? Notifications, "Fantasy Narrative", Fourth Wall, Screewriter etc etc.
He gets beaten is because he's down inside the fiction world with immersion (iirc, isn't this ability make the character weaker technically?), the same like Architect did when he challenges Shadow.

The reason why he's "inviting" is because his in-character is, a humble servant of arts... he didn't manipulate Shadow first-hand is not because he can't, he absolutely can, as he is from the Real World, talking freely to the Fiction World... Its even been proved further that he can applies any changes to the world with the scale of "before creation", because in truth is Shadow Fight 2 World is just a script.
He really respect arts so hard that he follows Shadow's rules of fighting, even if its making him a slave... he will always follow that direction.

"But, WHY did he lose??"
Just like i said above, Puppeteer respects very hard about arts... and the ultimate reason why lose (in the fictional realm) is because Shadow's role is a Hero, and you know what is a hero means... they always win (this could be another reason why he can win against Tenebris lmao, its just so hard to believe he can actually defeats Tenebris by hand), and Puppeteer follows this idea.

And the reason why he's asking Shadow particularly is because Shadow is the only one who understands his plot without any directing from him.

Although, i think for the most part is because Shadow is unbound to the real world being... not in literal meaning tho, as Architect can still control him and stated that "Everything is possible in the creator's head" a blatant fact that he did not lose superiority over Shadow.
From what i understand, they (the real world being) made an agreement on Shadow's favor... they can still control him, but chose not to.

Conclusion is:
1. Puppeteer can be harmed if he is in the fictional world (like physically)
2. Puppeteer have the characteristic of overly obsessed with arts, as he follows all the rules no matter if he's in a low position... Mean is, he will not using his authority for the sake of aesthethics art.
3. They've made an agreement on not toying Shadow's life, and this Puppeteer need his consent first to make a plot involving him.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Don't know the verse, but if I understand what I read properly I suppose Low 2-C, 2-B, and Low 1-C are fine.

Noted.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

If the "theatre" part that you have problem, then i will explain.
ITS not the theatre like in our world where its story is in limited space and require some equipment setting (such as; only applies and can be watch inside of a building), no, the fact is that the whole Shadow Fight 2 Universe itself is the theatre.
Pretty much explaining why Puppeteer can extend his story up to the "before creation".

ITS literally happening real time, infront of the dojo.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[57Dev]

Didn't Shades make Underworld canon as Sensei references the Eternals

 

[Catzlaflame]

He gets beaten is because he's down inside the fiction world with immersion (iirc, isn't this ability make the character weaker technically?), the same like Architect did when he challenges Shadow.

Immersion isn’t genuine r> f (see below) there can never be any interaction between r>f, otherwise, it counters the point all together.

ALTHOUGH I will say that I agree with you that the page doesn’t do a good job at conveying this, so I’ll see to it that that gets sorted out.

Just like i said above, Puppeteer respects very hard about arts... and the ultimate reason why lose (in the fictional realm) is because Shadow's role is a Hero, and you know what is a hero means... they always win (this could be another reason why he can win against Tenebris lmao, its just so hard to believe he can actually defeats Tenebris by hand), and Puppeteer follows this idea

Regardless of this, fictional characters can’t beat real characters. The reason why we rate reality > fiction scaling so high is because of the relationship.

Let me ask you this, shadow, can he beat me in a fight? And by me… I mean literally me. Like the irl version of me sitting behind this screen. It doesn’t matter if he’s the hero or not, REGARDLESS he will never beat me in a fight because, he is fictional too me. That’s same relationship needs to be established for R>F to be valid.

 

[Elizhaa]

Tier 2 changes seem fine. Low 1-C looks wrong; since the reality fiction is supposed to be more strict and be at least 1-A. Also, from the strictness, it does not look to be a valid reality-fiction interaction, there is barely any reason why the architect can be defeated by a character in the verse, which kind of defeats the point like Catzlaflame mentioned.

• https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-dread-tiering-system-revisions.168871/
• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Ultima_Reality/i_h#Q:_What_is_"qualitative_superiority"?
• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Ultima_Reality/m

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Immersion isn’t genuine r> f (see below) there can never be any interaction between r>f, otherwise, it counters the point all together.

ALTHOUGH I will say that I agree with you that the page doesn’t do a good job at conveying this, so I’ll see to it that that gets sorted out.

I don't get it, what?
I say that Puppeteer Immersed himself to a fictional world, so that he can be interacted with... This is literally the whole usefulness of its abilities, its even in the page.
I'm a 3D Being, imagine i can Immersed myself in a 2D World and live there and got beat up my ass... Would it disqualify the fact that i am once an R>F Being, and can be R>F anytime if i gets back to the Real World?

Regardless of this, fictional characters can’t beat real characters. The reason why we rate reality > fiction scaling so high is because of the relationship.

Let me ask you this, shadow, can he beat me in a fight? And by me… I mean literally me. Like the irl version of me sitting behind this screen. It doesn’t matter if he’s the hero or not, REGARDLESS he will never beat me in a fight because, he is fictional too me. That’s same relationship needs to be established for R>F to be valid.

I never said Shadow can be real characters, heck, i didn't even scaled him to Low 1-C because the fact is that the Real World being is in a weaker state (Immersion)

He can't (obviously), but if you downed yourself by something called "Immersion" then i guess he can (?).
Shadow never beat Architect or Puppeteer outside the fiction world, he beats them "inside" the fictional world.

Tier 2 changes seem fine. Low 1-C looks wrong; since the reality fiction is supposed to be more strict and be at least 1-A. Also, from the strictness, it does not look to be a valid reality-fiction interaction, there is barely any reason why the architect can be defeated by a character in the verse, which kind of defeats the point like Catzlaflame mentioned.

I already addressed the Immersion part, though i guess it doesn't work out due to the new tiering page.

But there is one probable reason for why Architect can be defeated.A
rchitect is seem to be playing around the whole time, like, he already knew every Shadow's move because of his authority as a creator... And this infact proven to be true, he wants to fight us because he wants to break his boredom (as he says ITS still "unbroken", it probably suggest that he did something to the whole fight leading to his defeats, everything is possible... And Shadow will not be considered defeating him naturally by this mean)

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Didn't Shades make Underworld canon as Sensei references the Eternals

Idk, i'm currently on vacuum.
Will be playing the game again if all the act is completed

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Didn't Shades make Underworld canon as Sensei references the Eternals

Its events and characters are simply part of another timeline now. Not part of the worlds that appear in stuff like Shadow Fight 3 and Arena, but still part of the same narrative regardless, or I guess "bigger picture" one could say.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Just wondering, why is The Descendant not higher or equal to Shadow or Shadow Mind? (Considering that the player controls them in SF3, and therefore they have canonically defeated Shadow and Shadow Mind, they should be equal or stronger?)
(This is within the main series though, not the spin off)

Because on the low(high)-key 90% of SF profile pages are outdated ghost towns that should be purged. And I'm saying this as the guy responsible for creating all of them. Why the purge? Because in the last two years this series grew tenfold in lore size, causing it to be progresively harder to update older profiles with new scans / feats / abilities, let alone create new profiles (so I'm sorry Sarge your profile is likely NOT getting a touch-up for the foreseeable 5 years from now on).

I consider Ancient's profile the crowning glory of my profile creation capabilities. It took me a full 9 months to remake it the best way I could. This is mostly because I recognize he is one of the most versatile hax gods in the series by a long shot. Plus he's a favorite of mine as a character so personal bias goes into profile quality as well.

Descendant (not the real one) and their clones are actually on the lower side of my priority list. Because they are nothing but just balls of raw stats with no interesting personal hax quirks to make them stand out in a place like VSB wiki. And no, I don't particularly consider Chapter 7 Descendant with Shadow Mind shooting a bunch of beams of energy as its ultimate trump card ability as something outstanding either. At that point just leave Shadow Mind "fused" Shadow fill that role because Shadow has 50x the swag and fame of Descendant.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump