Sese Kitsugai vs. Sans

[Ryuetsu]

So, I've seen a lot of people comparing Sans to other characters such as Sakuya Izayoi, which has baffled me for quite some time. So, I've decided "Why not put Sans against a bullet hell character that is the closest thing possible to Sans?" So, I've decided, Sese Kitsugai, the young Gashadokuro from the Len'en Project, verses Sans from Undertale. Fighting place is neutral.

EDIT: Speed equalized.

 

[Demonic_Retribution2]

Ooo... An interesting debate to look into! Let's see how this end.

 

[DMB_1]

>Probability Manipulation

Rip Sans. She can just subconsciouly change the chances of Sans ever hitting her 0%, and the ones of her bhitting him 100%

If it's not a stomp, I vote for her.

Edit: I read it wrong. F*ck me, forget what I just wrote.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

>Probability Manipulation
Rip Sans. She can just subconsciouly change the chances of Sans ever hitting her 0%, and the ones of her bhitting him 100%

If it's not a stomp, I vote for her.

Their profile says resistance to probability manip. Frankly I'm not seeing much in Sese's favor. They don't seem to have any outstanding hax and the only resistance is to something Sans dosen't use.

 

[Ryuetsu]

Well, here's what I'm thinking. Sese has bone manipulation, correct? They use that to freeze Sans in place temporarily and/or move his attacks from landing, in theory. Along with that, one of their spells (which I have no idea why Sese's spells aren't listed, or ANY spells for ANY Len'en character for that matter) is a giant laser cannon that fills the screen. So... Any thoughts?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Well, here's what I'm thinking. Sese has bone manipulation, correct? They use that to freeze Sans in place temporarily and/or move his attacks from landing, in theory. Along with that, one of their spells (which I have no idea why Sese's spells aren't listed, or ANY spells for ANY Len'en character for that matter) is a giant laser cannon that fills the screen. So... Any thoughts?

It could just be a bare-bones profile, whoever just has gotten around to adding the spell lists yet. You can always make a CRT to add it in.

As for the other thing, in Sans' battle he regularly teleports himself, his attacks and you, the player, around the screen. Unless Sese can p-null Sans' teleportation, I don't see them holding Sans for very long.

 

[Ryuetsu]

Well, roughly from stats, Sans has building level attack potency, while Sese has at least Small Town level durability. Not to mention it would be a bother to actually hit them, considering that they move at relativistic speeds at least. On top of that, in the actual game, Sans has shit stamina, being worn out from a five to ten minute fight, while Sese can go on for roughly an hour dodging ludicrous amounts of bullets, some of which move at apparenty light speed, in Brilliant Pagoda or Haze Castle.

 

[DMB_1]

Well, roughly from stats, Sans has building level attack potency, while Sese has at least Small Town level durability. Not to mention it would be a bother to actually hit them, considering that they move at relativistic speeds at least. On top of that, in the actual game, Sans has shit stamina, being worn out from a five to ten minute fight, while Sese can go on for roughly an hour dodging ludicrous amounts of bullets, some of which move at apparenty light speed, in Brilliant Pagoda or Haze Castle.

His attacks bypass durability

 

[Ryuetsu]

His attacks bypass durability

But Sese can still dodge his attacks. Coming from a bullet hell game as tough as Len'en, or if you want in role, a land as rough as Mugenri, Sese could most likely dodge Sans' attacks, not to mention potentially manipulate the attacks using bone manipulation, and not to mention that his speed is still relativistic. Besides, Sans dies in one hit from a Massively Hypersonic Frisk, and still being massively faster doesn't truly make him relativistic. Sese is thousands of times faster than Frisk will ever be. NOT TO MENTION that the spells Sese uses in their EX form in RMI's Extra-Alpha Stage can quickly fill the screen, and he can also use a slightly toned down version of said spells in his Composite form.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

You might want to Equalize Speed if it's that big a difference. As for the stamina difference, that seems to be Sese's only real advantage, and with Sans ignoring dura, I'm not sure by how much.

 

[Ryuetsu]

You might want to Equalize Speed if it's that big a difference. As for the stamina difference, that seems to be Sese's only real advantage, and with Sans ignoring dura, I'm not sure by how much.

I'm not going to equalize speed. I believe that speed equalization, albeit it can be fair, it situations like... I don't know... Goku vs. Rick Sanchez, it just seems like a massive wank for an underdog, and therefore, not an accurate fight. Besides, if you want me to equalize speed, then why'd you say that Sese's only advantage is stamina? If don't think that Sese has an advantage in speed, then why equalize?

Edit: Wanted to add one last thing on the mini paragraph.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I was saying with Speed Equalized Sese's only real advantage was stamina.

 

[Ryuetsu]

I was saying with Speed Equalized Sese's only real advantage was stamina.

Wanna describe how, though?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

You said Sese could fight for an hour+ without tireing, right? Sans has several minutes at most before passing out. A prolonged fight would be to Sese's favor. Sans' teleporting means that Sese's not hitting him anytime soon though, and durability's not a factor. I just suggested speed=ized to be safe. I've no idea when it becomes a blitz.

 

[Ryuetsu]

If Sese only has an advantage in stamina then it'd make little to no sense to equalize speed. It'd be purposely handicapping a fodder character with already low chances of winning the fight. Besides, you said it yourself. Sans outhaxes Sese in various situations, the only hax Sese having being resistance to probability manipulation.

 

[Desmiondo]

sans gets Blitzed equalize speed. plez

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Well it sounds like this is a stomp in either direction then. If you equalize speed Sans haxstomps. If you don't, Sese speedblitzes.

 

[Ryuetsu]

Well... I've been thinking, and I think that Sese could beat Sans, even if speed was equalized. Both Sans' stamina and defense are horribly weak, as he was able to die in one hit and couldn't last a ten minute battle. All Sese needs to do is stall Sans for about ten minutes, and then overwhelm Sans with danmaku. Not to mention that since they're technically a playable character in Brilliant Pagoda or Haze Castle, they could most likely dodge everything Sans could throw at them.

 

[Demonic_Retribution2]

>Sese has Bone Manipulation >Sans is a Skeleton

>Skeleton... >Bone Manipulation...

It doesn't take a detective to find out who wins.

Sese can literally turn Sans inside out and what can your soul do... Or what can YOU do... If your body is horribly disfigured.

 

[Captain_Missclick]

Voting for Sese via higher stamina and fra.

 

[Lawyerboi]

Voting for Sese due to stamina

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Stamina doesn't mean anything if the fight ends in the first few minutes.

 

[Captain_Missclick]

I voted Sese via stamina because when you think about it. Sans was fighting a melee knife wielding child meanwhile Sese fights opponents who can fly and throw out more projectiles and whatnot. The point here is sans was only shown to be strong projectile wise because he was fighting a grounded non flying child. Meanwhile Sese fights flying opponents and opponents that can dish out more projectiles than what sans could ever dream of. Speed equalized or not Sese will have superior reaction speed regarding sans projectiles and also much better combat experience regarding dodging. (Also Sese has bone manipulation and well sans is a skeleton eh you get the idea).

 

[Desmiondo]

^ No none of sans opponents could fly with blue mode speed equalize equalizes reaction speed also sans is not made of physical bone he's made of magic so no again

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

if anyone would explain how bone manipulation works, and if it ever affected bones of an enemy .

sese blitzes and oneshots.

if equalized, blue magic and teleportation negs flying

still, whitout speed equal this is a stomp, if bone manippulation works on enemies its also a stomp

 

[Ryuetsu]

if anyone would explain how bone manipulation works, and if it ever affected bones of an enemy .
sese blitzes and oneshots.

if equalized, blue magic and teleportation negs flying

still, whitout speed equal this is a stomp, if bone manippulation works on enemies its also a stomp

Sese was able to manipulate bones during RMI's EX-Alpha stage.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

yrd, but what kind of bones, because sans doesent have much matter and is mostly magic

 

[Ryuetsu]

yrd, but what kind of bones, because sans doesent have much matter and is mostly magic

It was never stated, but I thought it'd never need to be. Y'know. It's bones, made with bone and bone meal. Any bones that aren't made out of bone aren't bones, and Sans is a skeleton, and skeletons are made of bones. Y'get the correalation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

but sans is a monster, and as shown by papyrus, monster skeletons are, in fact, made out of solidified magic and dust

 

[Ryuetsu]

but sans is a monster, and as shown by papyrus, monster skeletons are, in fact, made out of solidified magic and dust

With that logic, you'd be implying that ALL the monsters are made of dust, which is like saying that Undyne doesn't have scales, Mettaton isn't made of metal, and Asgore and Toriel don't have fur. I'm fairly certain that the dust portion was an artistic choice, with "grinding" as in "gridning for EXP" possibly referring to a similar "grinding into dust" statement. Please, don't derail this thread.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

mettaton is a ghost possesing a robot, but other then that, the library states that all monsters have not mucj matter, and are mostly made out of magic.

 

[Ryuetsu]

mettaton is a ghost possesing a robot, but other then that, the library states that all monsters have not mucj matter, and are mostly made out of magic.

Mettaton's body is still made of metal, no matter how much you'd want to prove otherwise. Besides, Alphys apparently wanted to give Undyne "something for her scales" which is physical.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

yes, because it was premade, and he doesent turn to dust either.

which is why i pointed out solidified magic, like food, solid, but still magi and pure energy that you cant digest

 

[Ryuetsu]

yes, because it was premade, and he doesent turn to dust either.
which is why i pointed out solidified magic, like food, solid, but still magi and pure energy that you cant digest

You're still derailing the thread. Even so, I bet Sese could win without Bone Manipulation. They still have Earth Manipulation and a ludicrous amount of danmaku that could easily overpower Sans once he's gotten tired. Have you even seen his EX-Alpha spells? They're quite the spectacle, and nearly impossible to dodge against, and I mean it this time. One hit from Necropotence, and he's done for.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

disproving an ability from working is the anthitesis of derailing


and i am aware of that, i never voted, did I? or will i until speed is eequalized

 

[Lawyerboi]

Sese has pretty much all advantages

They have Bone Manip which would destroy Sans

They have greater Stamina

They have greater experience

They have danmaku which would overwhelm Sans that only dodged 1 single attack

They have much greater AP and Durability

They can fly

They can use many more bones at ones

KR wouldn't really work on them

Sese might not even have a soul

Srsly why is this a debate?

 

[Ryuetsu]

Well then, speaking of votes.

Sese: 3

Sans: 0

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

^when i counter bone but its stll used

same with flight

KR would work on them, its not actual karma

until crt is made , soul is assumed to be there

no one is debating for sans

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

dude, speed blitz, if you dopnt equilize ill ask for this to be closed

 

[Ryuetsu]

^when i counter bone but its stll used
same with flight

KR would work on them, its not actual karma

until crt is made , soul is assumed to be there

no one is debating for sans

You said it yourself back in Suzumi vs. Frisk. If the information isn't on the sight, then it can't be used. This very site does not say that Sans is *not* made of bone, so Bone Manipulation is still in the air.

Karmic Retribution is most likely a karma based thing. What's your evidence that it isn't?

You yourself should make some CRT's about Sans profile if you keep bringing up things that aren't on it.

You're debating for Sans.