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Sese Kitsugai vs. Sans
- Thread starter Ryuetsu
- Start date
- 26,116
- 3,649
no dude, i said that if feats or statments are lacking it cant be used, and its stated, nad sans is a monster, a race made out of magic.
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yes, but you still need to equalize it
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burden of proof fallacy, you have to prove a positiveRyuetsu said:
and no, i am not saying that he wins, just pointing out flawed logic
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and as far as i see the earth manipulation is only underground.
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what flaw? blue magic does counter flight
sans, as all monsters, is made out of magic.
sans, as all monsters, is made out of magic.
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and again, fallacy of burden of proof negs the idea that KARMA is actualy karma
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- 4
- Thread starter
- #50
Fine then, but let me say this. Sans lost a fight to a small child with a short-ranged bladed weapon, and died. Even with equalized speed, even with a lack of hax, what makes you think that Sans can beat Sese Kitsugai, a gashadokuro youkai who has only lost to people who actually know what they're doing, and specializes in mass ranged combat. Sese is much stronger than the average person. Sans is weaker than the average person.
Votes: Sese 3 - Sans 0
Votes: Sese 3 - Sans 0
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and said child won through reality warping by breaking the phisicd of the game,was city buster, had foreknowlege, immortality, got beaten at least 8 times, sans KNEW he was going to lose, and the child is the top tier of the verse with one guy being stronger and sans is building level, an avarege person couldent even hurt him
and a human soul in ut is houndreds of times above the likes of asgore
and a human soul in ut is houndreds of times above the likes of asgore
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"You see, unlike humans', monsters' bodies don't have enough... Physical matter to take those concentrations of "determination." Their bodies started to melt, and lost what physicality they had. Pretty soon, all of the test subjects had melted together into...
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Building level physically (The weakest monster who can be faced in combat, even below Monster Kid in terms of raw strength. However, he is still roughly comparable to the lowest tier monsters). Unknow via hax (Repeatedly defeated a multiversal enemy while they were in physical form due to mostly ignoring durability on both a conventional level and the entire mechanic of post-hit invulnerability), Can ignore Durability to an extent via SOUL Magic
weaker then an avarege person...
weaker then an avarege person...
- 65
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- Thread starter
- #54
Unknown via hax, eh? Wasn't on the list to be removed on the Sans Clean-Up? Anwyay, the point still stands that a child was able to beat them, even though they had numerous tries, even though they abused reality, the point still stands. Besides, after five minutes, Sans got tuckered out and fell asleep with his master strategy of "not letting you use your turn" gambit, which failed. Sese overpowers in attack power, stamina, and combat experience. He is done for. No matter how much he abuses Blue Soul. No matter how cheap his attacks are. No matter how many restrictions you put on Sese.Ricsi-viragosi said:
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the child itself is a city buster, its like saying a the car destroyed by a child goku is below human avarege, and sans can still ignore dura way above sese
restictions on sese? there were no restrictions on sese other tehn speed equal, which was for this to not be a stomp
and you seem to be very heated, trying to call my arguments derailing and fallacies despite them directly disproving arguments, making a thread just for sans to loose.
seriusly, the fact that i point out errors doesent mean that i dont agree with the outcome, it is simply the fact that you use fallacies like "prove a negative" and claims of infornation manipulation being 5D while not understanding that that is above infinite timelines
restictions on sese? there were no restrictions on sese other tehn speed equal, which was for this to not be a stomp
and you seem to be very heated, trying to call my arguments derailing and fallacies despite them directly disproving arguments, making a thread just for sans to loose.
seriusly, the fact that i point out errors doesent mean that i dont agree with the outcome, it is simply the fact that you use fallacies like "prove a negative" and claims of infornation manipulation being 5D while not understanding that that is above infinite timelines
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- Thread starter
- #56
Okay, I'll give you that. From a logical standpoint though, it doesn't make sense for Frisk to be a city buster, but that's just me. Sese can still dodge Sans' attacks. From a gameplay standpoint, Sese has dodged and dished out much worse.Ricsi-viragosi said:
I think it's a little suspicious to say that something called "KARMIC RETRIBUTION" has nothing to do with karma at all whatsoever.
I respect the fact that you're pointing out logical errors. I'm actually somewhat new to VSBW so all of these fallacies are new to me. That last part seems a little on the aggressive side, though. Anyway, I'm thinking about asking someone to close this thread. Sese 3 - Sans 0, no one's arguing for Sans anymore.
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its not called karmic retribution, thats a fan made name for it.
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I like how you said kr isn't actual karma when in other threads they treat kr as actual karma the one that stems from Buddhist terms.
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those are old threads, and its been agreed upon that its not an actual thing, feel free to ask azzy if you want to
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and i do know what karma is
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I'll check that later also we're getting a bit off topic. Regardless Sese wins this speed equalized or not here's my reasoning
Equalized: Sese has more combat knowledge and experience in general also they can dish out more projectiles and have dodged more than one object being thrown at them meanwhile sans was only dodging a single knife slash. The fight would either go sans tires out much faster since he's dodging more than regular or sese overwhelms him with projectiles.
Not equalized: Speedblitz nuff said.
While I did take into consideration about blue mode and Sese being grounded it still doesn't change the fact that Sese is more experienced with dodging multiple projectiles. About the dura negate it's one of sans strong sides since he doesn't care about dura difference however like I said Sese dodges better and have faced patterns more difficult to dodge than what sans can pull out. Regardless whether bone manip would work or not Sese just has the better dodging and overall more projectiles to throw. Unless of course there's something that I'm missing here that might change my vote
Equalized: Sese has more combat knowledge and experience in general also they can dish out more projectiles and have dodged more than one object being thrown at them meanwhile sans was only dodging a single knife slash. The fight would either go sans tires out much faster since he's dodging more than regular or sese overwhelms him with projectiles.
Not equalized: Speedblitz nuff said.
While I did take into consideration about blue mode and Sese being grounded it still doesn't change the fact that Sese is more experienced with dodging multiple projectiles. About the dura negate it's one of sans strong sides since he doesn't care about dura difference however like I said Sese dodges better and have faced patterns more difficult to dodge than what sans can pull out. Regardless whether bone manip would work or not Sese just has the better dodging and overall more projectiles to throw. Unless of course there's something that I'm missing here that might change my vote
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,235
- 991
The only thing I have to add is Sans' teleportation. Not teleporting himself, that's been discussed above, but Sans teleporting Sese, his own attacks, Sese into his attacks, and theoreticly Sese's own attacks back at her. If Sese is blasting out a bunch of projectiles all over the place, I see no reason Sans wouldn't use that to his advantage.
As for her being more experienced, i've no idea, but her profile has this to say about her Intelegence,
"Sese is childish, naive, and easily depressed."
As for her being more experienced, i've no idea, but her profile has this to say about her Intelegence,
"Sese is childish, naive, and easily depressed."
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- Thread starter
- #64
Well, if Sans is going to be teleporting Sese around, that'll leave him open to spare bullets fired, besides, he might have to teleport individual bullets, which, in all honesty, don't deal much damage.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
As for experience, Sese's been in a variety of fights. They've picked fights with Yabusame and Tsubakura, Yaorochi and Sukune, Kuroji and Saragimaru, and more. Not to mention that they were able to beat potentially (due to the layout of BPoHC) Taira no Chouki, Ooama no Ake no Mitori, Shion, Suzumi Kuzu, Yabusame Houlen, Tsubakura Enraku, Adagumo no Yaorochi, Yago Ametsukana, Haiji Senri, and Xeno a (Who subconsciously manipulated their odds of losing to 0%).
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,235
- 991
Sure, teleporting Sese's attacks probably won't mean much here. I still think Sese won't be dodging many of Sans' attacks though. My next question is do any of the characters you mentioned have skeletons? Are they beings with bones in them?
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- Thread starter
- #66
I'd think otherwise. They were able to dodge horribly strong spells, like Yaorochi's "Two Glimmers" or Tsurubami's "Monochrome Bivalence" during the Suzumi fight.
Yes, they all have humanoid figures, and some of them are actually human (Yabusame, Tsubakura, Kuroji, Xeno a, Haiji, Mitori, and Suzumi are all humans, Yago is a god, Chouki and Shion are spirits, Sukune is a haniwa youkai, and Yaorochi and Saragimaru are orochis.)
Yes, they all have humanoid figures, and some of them are actually human (Yabusame, Tsubakura, Kuroji, Xeno a, Haiji, Mitori, and Suzumi are all humans, Yago is a god, Chouki and Shion are spirits, Sukune is a haniwa youkai, and Yaorochi and Saragimaru are orochis.)
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,235
- 991
Ok, then has Sese ever manipulated any of their skeletons in any scenario ever? Cutscene, game play? Was it ever discussed ever by any character?Ryuetsu said:
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- Thread starter
- #68
Sese hasn't seen manipulating the skeletons of other people (due to the lack of cutscenes or gameplay that isn't dodging a horde of bullets) nor was it discussed because Sese's technically a fodder character, however, during the Reactivate Majestical Imperial EX-Alpha stage, they WERE creating and controlling bones during their fight, particularly in their first few cards.
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is bone manipulation being argued again? and controlling your own bones, or once made by you, means nothing.
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The rules litiraly say to look at what was discussed and not bring up already discussed stuff unless they have something new to put into it
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Wait,i thought Sese have 3 vote?
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Then i voting Sese FRA.
I see you're still new here.
I see you're still new here.
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Yeah,an newbie who start an heated debate is an impressive. XD
I recommend you need to read the rule here.
I recommend you need to read the rule here.
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Hmm...guess I'll vote for Sese Fra since I'm not convinced on the argument about Sans
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I vote for Sese Fra because it takes more than a lot of lead in the face to take him/her down while Sans loses to a kid who has a knife...
