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As long as the translations are not getting ****** up by MTL then, I'm fine with adding/using Fans TL. The Official TL should take precedent first of course.
Nahh, I doubt that….
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Serious problems with Maou Gakuin verse (Not a Downgrade or Upgrade CRT)
- Thread starter Guileal
- Start date
- Status
- 18,393
- 14,323
(To ensure the safety of intellectual discourse, I would not recommend considering fixxed and georr comments as valid or worth time, thus rendering them nonexistent)
It can be challenging to give weight to the opinions of non-supporters who may not actively contribute significantly. In my previous thread, I excluded their votes for similar reasons, and I intend to do the same here, without intending any offense. Therefore, I will refrain from responding to their comments.
Regarding the OP's query, it appears they are referring to Vergil Lucifer, a highly trusted translator within the community. Vergil is fluent in both Russian and Japanese and has a long-standing reputation as a translator, having translated over 2000 chapters of various light novels, web novels, and other volumes. He is widely recognized for his expertise, and I had a fruitful conversation with him when discussing potential translation discrepancies between versions.
In response to the OP's request and their mention of my comments, I did express that I have no objections as long as both versions remain consistent with each other. However, this would not significantly alter the situation, as we would still be focusing on volume 4 to compare consistency and differences.
Furthermore, it should be noted that even light novels may contain minor mistranslations. For instance, there is a well-known misunderstanding within the community regarding the name of a sword. There is no logical evidence to support the translation of "reason-destroyer," whereas the Japanese term and its context clearly indicate "principle-destroyer." This is just one example of a mistranslation, and Vergil has already pointed out several mistakes in the LN version.
Regarding the consistent comparison of the LN and WN within the given context, one possible approach would be to utilize Imgur and upload both versions, along with the relevant fan-translated content, to determine which one is the most reliable and aligns best with the plot.
However, it is important to acknowledge that this suggestion could be time-consuming. Many supporters, including myself and UMR, have lost interest in scaling MG in VSBW, and Tatsumi, who has been a significant contributor to the community, has been muted or topic banned.
Additionally, there are members who oppose or downgrade content without possessing substantial knowledge of the verse.
Considering my position as a knowledgeable and trusted member, I endorse the third suggestion outlined in the OP. It offers a more efficient approach with fewer complications and allows more time for additional volumes to be translated. In many cases, downgrades occur while feats gain further elaboration in later volumes.
It can be challenging to give weight to the opinions of non-supporters who may not actively contribute significantly. In my previous thread, I excluded their votes for similar reasons, and I intend to do the same here, without intending any offense. Therefore, I will refrain from responding to their comments.
Regarding the OP's query, it appears they are referring to Vergil Lucifer, a highly trusted translator within the community. Vergil is fluent in both Russian and Japanese and has a long-standing reputation as a translator, having translated over 2000 chapters of various light novels, web novels, and other volumes. He is widely recognized for his expertise, and I had a fruitful conversation with him when discussing potential translation discrepancies between versions.
In response to the OP's request and their mention of my comments, I did express that I have no objections as long as both versions remain consistent with each other. However, this would not significantly alter the situation, as we would still be focusing on volume 4 to compare consistency and differences.
Furthermore, it should be noted that even light novels may contain minor mistranslations. For instance, there is a well-known misunderstanding within the community regarding the name of a sword. There is no logical evidence to support the translation of "reason-destroyer," whereas the Japanese term and its context clearly indicate "principle-destroyer." This is just one example of a mistranslation, and Vergil has already pointed out several mistakes in the LN version.
Regarding the consistent comparison of the LN and WN within the given context, one possible approach would be to utilize Imgur and upload both versions, along with the relevant fan-translated content, to determine which one is the most reliable and aligns best with the plot.
However, it is important to acknowledge that this suggestion could be time-consuming. Many supporters, including myself and UMR, have lost interest in scaling MG in VSBW, and Tatsumi, who has been a significant contributor to the community, has been muted or topic banned.
Additionally, there are members who oppose or downgrade content without possessing substantial knowledge of the verse.
Considering my position as a knowledgeable and trusted member, I endorse the third suggestion outlined in the OP. It offers a more efficient approach with fewer complications and allows more time for additional volumes to be translated. In many cases, downgrades occur while feats gain further elaboration in later volumes.
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
With all due respect, Dread, you can't just nuke the verse every time people start scrutinizing it. You have 4 volumes of content to work with - already quite a lot of content - and even if half the profile were downgraded into oblivion, it'd still be among the more descriptive, well-organized, and well-sourced profiles on the wiki.
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Fuji, respectfully, it's not your concern which options I choose from the OP.
And respectfully and no offense, mind reading my reasons above instead of accusing that one of reasons is this bs u created?
And respectfully and no offense, mind reading my reasons above instead of accusing that one of reasons is this bs u created?
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You are simply acting like Pain in my previous thread, so I won't respond to any comments further.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
I'd also like to note that last time you did this, at least one previously downgraded ability was readded without a CRT, which led to no small number of issues for both sides. I'm not fully confident that that won't happen again.
You've made your bed, now lie in it.
You've made your bed, now lie in it.
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Sounds like a derailing irrelevant comment. As usual, same behaviour as Pain, nothing has changed with this attitude.
Also no offense but your confidence holds no weight here and neither will impact my reasonable take in this.
Also no offense but your confidence holds no weight here and neither will impact my reasonable take in this.
- 508
- 178
- Thread starter
- #49
with all due respect but what you are saying is illogical, a character may very well have worked a power in the first volume of a work and that ability has a better explanation or context many volumes later than is the case here.
And no, 4 volumes is not a lot if you take into account that the work has 17 volumes, 4 volumes the work worked on about 160 chapters in a total of almost 700, so no, you cannot work and argue well with 1/7 of the total of a work.
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All of yall (Dread and Fujiwara) chill out
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basically, OP wants us to instead of waiting for Official English in LN, we instead also allow fan translations as long as they are trustworthy but Official EN translation will take precedent
The reasoning is that a lot of explanation is only available in later volumes which causes poor reflection of the profile's ability and causes downgrades who aren't aware of the existence of specific scans in later untranslated volumes
or delete the verse again until more volumes are released but it might take months or Years
- 508
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- Thread starter
- #53
only staff approval to be able to use LN fan translation of maou Gakuin
- 508
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- Thread starter
- #54
Basically that
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,891
- 2,055
Then why the rush to bring the verse back in the first place?
Y'all could have waited till you had more contents before reinstating the profile.
This just seems like you guys not liking that the verse is being downgraded this month
Y'all could have waited till you had more contents before reinstating the profile.
This just seems like you guys not liking that the verse is being downgraded this month
- 508
- 178
- Thread starter
- #56
you should ask supporters this, I'm not part of them anymore since 2020.
would you wait 8 years to create an updated profile of a character you like who is hyped because of an anime? There is no one who would wait so long
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Tbh, I was discussing in private about the possible use of the WN or translation made by JP translators, because there is practically no difference between the LN and WN, even having talked to some JP people, they have said that there are many misstranslations in the "official" translation of J-Novels, I was practically given a green light to use them but I have to discuss the issue further anyway.
Exactly, the current 4 volumes contain very little information that can support the most common feats of the verse, which in general caused problems with the use of feats that are not officially translated, that is a problem.
I already talked to dread and the others about this, and I told them that the first time it might work, the 2nd time it won't because it would give an example that now at every possible downgrade they would start proposing the profile deletion, which in itself would give a bad impression.
But it should be noted that I understand that the current volumes are not enough and that the best explanations about all the feats are not translated yet.
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Even some changes that were applied to the profile in past downgrades I was told should be reverted but let's see how this thread develops first.
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- Thread starter
- #59
in fact I gave two more suggestions, I didn't say to delete the verse, that was the last option
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,891
- 2,055
I'm not particularly against nuking the verse and restarting or anything
The timing just seems off.
For your OP
I'm leaning towards option 1.
Most japanese verses have the option of rechecking raws and translation. MGK shouldn't be an outlier
However, given the volatile nature of the verse, all translations used need to be verified on site by the soon to be established translation staff. No more "my guy on discord knows japanese"
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,008
- 12,690
Most of the translation will be done by Virgil Lucifer as dread said above or we will ask for Chase to do the translation check who is trusted member in the wiki. Even Daegonx uses Chase translation for fate Downgrade threads. It's not hard to trust his translation for MGK.
There are major issues with Jnovels translations. They made a country into city then removed Volume 2 keywords and replaced with Volume 1 and never botheed to change it back. Also few other things.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Can you actually verify any of those things? Also, no matter what the consensus is, we should always stick to what's been actually released officially in english.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,008
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There are tons of verses like Fate and Bleach uses FTL because of same issue. Don't see why this double standards should apply to only MGK. I can probably list even more verses. But not gonna bother.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Because only MGK has had frequent issues regarding fan translations. Bleach and Fate weren't literally deleted because of how bad the translation issues were; MGK was.
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Do not twist things, MGK did not use FanTranslation but direct MTL, besides the verse was not deleted by use of FanTL but by MTL and another point is that the only translation error was in that thread of 2-A, of the 3 years there was only that error, good luck looking to see if there are more, the verse was deleted to avoid the continued use of MTL.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,008
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Its not FTL. It was MTL. Go re check the dread deletion thread. You are acting like J novel is all perfect. Deletion of profiles has nothing to do with FTL.
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Don't use my name like this. I explicitly disagreed and I already explained that it has nothing to do with whether or not I trust Chase's translations.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
Then can you give actual examples of J-novel ******* up? With evidence, not just hearsay.
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And by the way, if there are people who speak Japanese and tell you that the official translation of something has a lot of mistakes or that it sucks and you say that you have to stick to the official translations even with their mistakes? That is why it is proposed to use the Raw and translations of JP speakers to verify their validation.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
I'm... literally just asking for sources of this being the case. Can you provide that?
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The most blunderous error and the
Here J-Novels and Here TL of JP Translator.
And the worst thing is that I extracted the text from the Raw and used DeepL and the translation was almost 90% similar to the one used by J-Novels, I don't want to say anything.
Heck, even ChatGTP says the translation is concept not core. There are more but i'm not actually open to keep clogging the thread with that.
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I'm personally fine with the use of FTL but I can understand the reasoning against it. Honestly, as long as certain steps are taken (like reliable translator, no glaring confliction with Official, no "my friend on discord translated it", etc) I think things should work out.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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So... it says the same thing in different words. That isn't a mistranslation, Dereck. Literally everything you need to know about the source is explained in both versions, so if this is the worst example you have, then I'm absolutely against ignoring the official version.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Yeah, I don't mind if FTL is used to back up what the official translations say. I think it's also important to note that the official translators don't have any connection to VSBW, so there's no potential concern over bias or whatever.
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I say the worst because if we went for the official version with mere misstranslation, the source would never have qualified for concept in our standards, bye-bye CM 3 and interaction along with EE, bye-bye High-Godly, bye-bye AE Type 1 and many other things.
And it is not the same because Fundamental concept of existence =/= Core of existence.
So yeah.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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...No? I know MGK supporters have a tendency to act like all of VSBW is against them, but you'd be insane to think that we wouldn't treat something like "the fundamental core of existence that exists deeper than the mind and soul" as CM 3.
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Not to stir up trouble but you would be the first to question this because it does not explicitly state the word concept.
I hope this doesn't apply to me because I am very neutral with my verse and I am not always in favor of everything that is proposed to upgrade it.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,891
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Not saying it's hard to trust
I'm just saying it'll be easier to track if whoever is translating does so on site.
Not a discord or imgur post
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- Thread starter
- #80
Fan translations existed long before Maou Gakuin vsb profiles were even a possibility.
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