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Sealing Away Naruto's 5-B in a Chibaku Tensei

Status
Not open for further replies.
Arc7Kuroi said:

Premise​

SPCT does not scale to physicals.

Argument​

A common argument for SPCT scaling to physicals is that Chakra as a system is a UES, thus the SPCT jutsu as a jutsu would scale to physicals (of people like Hagoromo, Naruto, Sasuke, etc.). To cite the text of the ancient one himself, "These "Ace Techniques", however, differ from even regular Ninjutsu, not just physicals. They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu, and there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power. I'll go over a few prominent "special moves" in hopes of explaining how they differ from regular techniques, and why their existence does NOT contradict the premise of this thread."

Claim 1: They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu

The SPCT is far above any other calc that the God Tiers scale to in both Ninjutsu and Taijutsu. The crux of this point is that the other techniques and avenues of scaling for those who have the SPCT is not consistent. The next highest feat for the verse is Toneri splitting the moon at 5-C. Which, regardless of which side of the camp you are on for TCM Toneri backscaling to Shippuden, is well over 100x weaker than the 5-B SPCT that everyone scales to.

Claim 2: there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power

There is a clear reason for the SPCT being far beyond what we normally see from the characters, at least in the case in which we actually see the technique being used on screen. Kaguya uses the Byakugan to scan Naruto and Sasuke, we are shown that a special, extra-radiant source of chakra exists in both their hands associated with the SPCT seals. Black Zetsu also denotes that the SPCT as a sealing jutsu is most powerful, and that the power within the seals resonate when it's in proximity with its opposite. So, we know that the SPCT seals have a special chakra, as a jutsu itself it is held within a tier of its own, and that the powers resonate in combination with each other. All of which indicate that this jutsu is not a normal jutsu, and all of which offer some explanation for why it would be beyond the raw power of the SPCT users normally. Kaguya/Black Zetsu should be knowledgeable on these claims as well, considering Hagoromo and Hamura utilized this technique in the exact same manner as Naruto and Sasuke did, so she/it has experienced this jutsu in practice before. Additionally, the fourth databook states the SPCT compiles a large amount of chakra to create these satellites (moons). From everything we are given, the SPCT chakra is beyond the normal amount of chakra being utilized by these characters.

Shadow Assist​

Shadow gave me permission to cite their argument, and they worded it very well so I'll quote them directly.
Pain goes from being completely dominated by Naruto in his six-tailed form to incapacitating him and forcing him to morph into the eight-tailed variant to counteract the gravitational pull of Chibaku Tensei. While limiting a character's strength based on showings from significantly weaker individuals may not be a decisive argument, it does establish a precedent. Given the lack of feats or statements indicating relativity, Chibaku Tensei is treated as a potent ultimate ability. The six paths variant is even more potent, capturing and nullifying significantly stronger individuals, albeit requiring two participants.

The point that Shadow is bringing up here, is that we have precedence that the Chibaku Tensei jutsu outscales your own physicals. Pain goes from losing to someone to absolutely shutting them down with his CT. Furthermore, in the Boruto anime we see that Fused Momo has to result to a giant dragon to bust out of Sasuke's CT, despite only needing small dragons to beat down on Sasuke. Which is additional proof that the CT and by extension SPCT jutsu are beyond the user's normal physicals.

Conclusion​

SPCT should not scale to physicals, because there is due reason to assume that the power of that jutsu is far beyond everything else in the characters' arsenals. As far as alternative methods of scaling, since we currently base all our scaling off of the SPCT, recently Toneri's moon split got accepted as concretely 5-C, so we can just do that for the time being until Shadow drops their god tier thread.

Agree: Slayer, Damage, Tracer, KT, Mav
Neutral:
Disagree:
Click to expand...
I disagree with the OP. The calc for spct is for moving the moon and not creating the moon. At no point in the series we're we told the moving aspect comes from the sun and moon seals. That's for the justu itself . Unless if I am misunderstanding something but is the calc of for Hagoromo and hamura moving the moon to orbit. This is simply a larger scale of the rinnengan gravity manipulation as shown by all users of the rinnengan . It's just on a six path level. So How is it tied to the seal which just creates the moon? Now that I think about it the value for the whole calc should simply belong to Hagoromo and not even both.

If I'm wrong someone should correct me coz I always thought the calc was on hag moving the moon to orbit
 
Arc7Kuroi said:

Premise​

SPCT does not scale to physicals.

Argument​

A common argument for SPCT scaling to physicals is that Chakra as a system is a UES, thus the SPCT jutsu as a jutsu would scale to physicals (of people like Hagoromo, Naruto, Sasuke, etc.). To cite the text of the ancient one himself, "These "Ace Techniques", however, differ from even regular Ninjutsu, not just physicals. They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu, and there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power. I'll go over a few prominent "special moves" in hopes of explaining how they differ from regular techniques, and why their existence does NOT contradict the premise of this thread."

Claim 1: They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu

The SPCT is far above any other calc that the God Tiers scale to in both Ninjutsu and Taijutsu. The crux of this point is that the other techniques and avenues of scaling for those who have the SPCT is not consistent. The next highest feat for the verse is Toneri splitting the moon at 5-C. Which, regardless of which side of the camp you are on for TCM Toneri backscaling to Shippuden, is well over 100x weaker than the 5-B SPCT that everyone scales to.

Claim 2: there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power

There is a clear reason for the SPCT being far beyond what we normally see from the characters, at least in the case in which we actually see the technique being used on screen. Kaguya uses the Byakugan to scan Naruto and Sasuke, we are shown that a special, extra-radiant source of chakra exists in both their hands associated with the SPCT seals. Black Zetsu also denotes that the SPCT as a sealing jutsu is most powerful, and that the power within the seals resonate when it's in proximity with its opposite. So, we know that the SPCT seals have a special chakra, as a jutsu itself it is held within a tier of its own, and that the powers resonate in combination with each other. All of which indicate that this jutsu is not a normal jutsu, and all of which offer some explanation for why it would be beyond the raw power of the SPCT users normally. Kaguya/Black Zetsu should be knowledgeable on these claims as well, considering Hagoromo and Hamura utilized this technique in the exact same manner as Naruto and Sasuke did, so she/it has experienced this jutsu in practice before. Additionally, the fourth databook states the SPCT compiles a large amount of chakra to create these satellites (moons). From everything we are given, the SPCT chakra is beyond the normal amount of chakra being utilized by these characters.

Shadow Assist​

Shadow gave me permission to cite their argument, and they worded it very well so I'll quote them directly.
Pain goes from being completely dominated by Naruto in his six-tailed form to incapacitating him and forcing him to morph into the eight-tailed variant to counteract the gravitational pull of Chibaku Tensei. While limiting a character's strength based on showings from significantly weaker individuals may not be a decisive argument, it does establish a precedent. Given the lack of feats or statements indicating relativity, Chibaku Tensei is treated as a potent ultimate ability. The six paths variant is even more potent, capturing and nullifying significantly stronger individuals, albeit requiring two participants.

The point that Shadow is bringing up here, is that we have precedence that the Chibaku Tensei jutsu outscales your own physicals. Pain goes from losing to someone to absolutely shutting them down with his CT. Furthermore, in the Boruto anime we see that Fused Momo has to result to a giant dragon to bust out of Sasuke's CT, despite only needing small dragons to beat down on Sasuke. Which is additional proof that the CT and by extension SPCT jutsu are beyond the user's normal physicals.

Conclusion​

SPCT should not scale to physicals, because there is due reason to assume that the power of that jutsu is far beyond everything else in the characters' arsenals. As far as alternative methods of scaling, since we currently base all our scaling off of the SPCT, recently Toneri's moon split got accepted as concretely 5-C, so we can just do that for the time being until Shadow drops their god tier thread.

Agree: Slayer, Damage, Tracer, KT, Mav
Neutral:
Disagree:
Click to expand...
What the God Tiers scale to is not the SPCT calc itself. It is I for Hagoromo using the rinnengan abilities to move the moon into orbit. That's all they scale too. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ny_Romo_Throws_Football_(Hagoromo_Hurls_Moon).


Isn't this the calc? How was moving the moon tied to spct which just creates the moon?
 
Hold on, that might be right.

Obviously the SPCT isn't created directly 40.000km above earth. So someone must've moved the moon up there. And it can't be Hamura because he doesn't have telekinesis or Rinnegan gravity manipulation. He doesn't have the Tenseigan by this point either. So it must've been Hagoromo alone.

How come did I just realize this?
 
Padaruyos said:
Hold on, that might be right.

Obviously the SPCT isn't created directly 40.000km above earth. So someone must've moved the moon up there. And it can't be Hamura because he doesn't have telekinesis or Rinnegan gravity manipulation.

How come did I just realize this?
Click to expand...
That's literally what the calc is about. Just moving the moon to orbit . Obviously hagoromo did this with his rinnengan. Which is why I am confused about this thread in itself. The GT don't scale to CT, they scale to hagoromo moving the already created moon. Just look at the calc above
 
Right, just moving the moon to orbit is most likely standard Rinnegan gravity manipulation. Since Naruto and Sasuke's SPCT is created 3400 kilometers above earth, and not 38400.
 
Padaruyos said:
Right, just moving the moon to orbit is most likely standard Rinnegan gravity manipulation. Since Naruto and Sasuke's SPCT is created 3400 kilometers above earth, and not 38400.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Naruto and sasuke own didn't just magically move. Hell all CT created stayed in the same spot where it was made.

Hagoromo just moved it into orbit with rinnengan ability and that is what was calced. I don't get this "they don't scale to SPCT"
No shit they scale to hag moving it to the moon. Basically rinnengan ability
 
LordTracer said:
With how many people are getting caught up on where the characters are going to scale after this, even though that isn’t the point of the thread, I have to wonder if it’d be better to wait until Shadow’s GT revision to apply this?
Click to expand...
I don't think it'd be necessary to wait.

For the most part this would just be a stat update, not a scaling change. So fairly simple to apply.
 
Since it seems like staffs already agreed to this thread I'd just make mine later on. Honestly this thread makes no sense
 
Okay for now I'm pulling back my agree vote to neutral.

I disagree with the whole moving the moon to orbit being part of SPCT itself and thus not scaling to the GTs. It's not, the SPCT isn't created directly on the moon. It's created somewhere above ground (Narusauce's version is 3800km above ground calc'd.). And once the Moon is done only by then Hagoromo (maybe Hamura too but Hamura doesn't have the Rinnegan so idk if he can even throw the moon to orbit) moved it to the moon. So moving the moon to orbit itself isn't part of SPCT and is probably just regular Rinnegan telekinesis.

But I won't put a full on disagree since I'm not sure if Rinnegan gravity manipulation can be scaled to physicals.
 
karo_senpaii said:
The calc for spct is for moving the moon and not creating the moon. At no point in the series we're we told the moving aspect comes from the sun and moon seals. That's for the justu itself
Click to expand...
You need to prove this, not us.

The onus is on you to prove that moving the Chibaku Tensei is not part of the actual Chibaku Tensei Jutsu. By all visuals and narratives it is actually part of the Jutsu.

As we've seen Nagato do, he literally generates the core and floats it up into the sky when fighting Itachi, Naruto, and Bee. This movement is all part of the Jutsu.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
You need to prove this, not us.

The onus is on you to prove that moving the Chibaku Tensei is not part of the actual Chibaku Tensei Jutsu. By all visuals and narratives it is actually part of the Jutsu.

As we've seen Nagato do, he literally generates the core and floats it up into the sky when fighting Itachi, Naruto, and Bee. This movement is all part of the Jutsu.
Click to expand...
This is blatantly wrong. Where you place the core is where the justu will stay. For madara and nagato where the black orb I'd is where it will form and it will not move from there.
For Hagoromo, Naruto and sasuke what you induce with the gravity will become the core and it will form there and not move from that spot. Literally naruto and sasuke CT it stayed where kaguya was in the air. You can see it was even much more closer to the ground. Even sasuke own against momoshiki when he induced him with gravity momo became the core and it stayed right in that spot. Every instance of CT is where the core is is where the technique stays and does not move from there. If you want to move it you simply use rinnengan ability.

Sasuke did this shit with the tailed beast moving them from 4gnw battle ground to hidden leaf.

The only way for you to make the assumption is to say where they hit kaguya was where the moon is in orbit now and that's how it formed which is blatantly wrong from what we were shown and go against the calc.

Once again they made the ct , it stayed on the spot from where the core was formed. Then hag used his rinnengan to move it to orbit. Hamura did not have a tenseigan then so he could not have done it
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
You need to prove this, not us.

The onus is on you to prove that moving the Chibaku Tensei is not part of the actual Chibaku Tensei Jutsu. By all visuals and narratives it is actually part of the Jutsu.

As we've seen Nagato do, he literally generates the core and floats it up into the sky when fighting Itachi, Naruto, and Bee. This movement is all part of the Jutsu.
Click to expand...
Nagato own is completely different. He floats the core and it forms where the core is. Hagoromo and sasuke own they make their target the core so the justu forms around them and stays there.

Are You trying to say when they touched kaguya and made her the core they were in the moon orbit so it just formed there? If that's not your argument then anything else after the justu has been completed and the moon has formed has nothing to do with the CT itself.
 
Damage3245 said:
The Moon that Naruto and Sasuke created appeared to keep getting higher and higher above the ground without Naruto and Sasuke having to do anything to move it.
Click to expand...
Actually that's wrong. Even at the point of when they were reverse summoned away they showed the exact panel and the moon was still where it was and never moved. It just got bigger , it was still the same distance in the air as when they sealed kaguya.

In fact all accounts of CT ever created it never moves from where its core is. And we have actual scans of Sasuke moving his CT with his rinnengan well after creating it. So it makes perfect sense that hagoromo just moved it to the moon with his rinnengan
 
Obviously I agree, given this was a section that my God tier thread initially covered.

also they wouldn't scale to the "moving the moon" the reason why it was accepted in the past was because of Obito's statement of Hagoromo lifting the moon and shooting it into the sky.

The Issue is the actual language being used in both english and the original Kanji is Figurative, it also comes from a third hand source, in combination with the fact that this specific description of Chibaku tensei would be inconsistent with every visual portrayal of the feat across 4 different mediums.

Also Naruto and Sasuke are not controlling the movement of the chibaku tensei as evidence by the fact that once it starts forming , sasuke tries to leave and avoid being caught in it while naruto goes over to finish Black Zetsu. and the Chibaku tensei naruto and sasuke performed are the exact the same that Hagoromo and Hamura performed.

and even we tried to be extremely charitable and say they were passively controlling the chibaku tensei, this would still beg the question of why it would scale to their physicals, given the lack of supporting evidence.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
Obviously I agree, given this was a section that my God tier thread initially covered.

also they wouldn't scale to the "moving the moon" the reason why it was accepted in the past was because of Obito's statement of Hagoromo lifting the moon and shooting it into the sky.

The Issue is the actual language being used in both english and original Kanji is Figurative, it also comes from a third hand source, in combination with the fact that this specific description of Chibaku tensei would be inconsistent with every visual portrayal of the feat.

Also Naruto and Sasuke are not controlling the movement of the chibaku tensei as evidence by the fact that once it starts forming , sasuke tries to leave and avoid being caught in it while naruto goes over to finish Black Zetsu. and the Chibaku tensei naruto and sasuke performed are the exact the same that Hagoromo and Hamura performed.

and even we tried to be extremely charitble and say they were passively controlling the chibaku tensei, this would still beg the question of why it would scale to their physicals.
Click to expand...

The problem I have with this is Sasuke and naruto CT formed where the core was placed and never moved from that spot. It just continued to get bigger. Unless someone has some evidence of movement. Ct never moves from where the core is placed. So it is either hagoromo and hamura induced kaguya as the core right where the moon orbit was and it formed there or they created it on earth. And then hagoromo moved it with his rinnengan (Sasuke has done this by the way)

So which one is it? Or are you suggesting when it was formed it just slowly moved away from where the core was formed until it got to the moon orbit? When has a CT ever done that?
And it would easily scale to physicals as it would just be a basic ability of the rinnengan. Any higher ninjustu would scale and the chakra they used to amp themselves would too
 
Okay just rewatched the scene.

The SPCT and Kaguya is constantly moving upwards when the moon is being formed. It's not like the other CTs where the core just stayed in place.

Also when Sasuke sealed the Bijuus in his CT it was forming as the sealed Bijuus inside are pushed upwards.
 
karo_senpaii said:
The problem I have with this is Sasuke and naruto CT formed where the core was placed and never moved from that spot. It just continued to get bigger. Unless someone has some evidence of movement. Ct never moves from where the core is placed. So it is either hagoromo and hamura induced kaguya as the core right where the moon orbit was and it formed there or they created it on earth. And then hagoromo moved it with his rinnengan (Sasuke has done this by the way)
Click to expand...
yes it's part of the Jutsu's mechanics that they transform the target into a core in the sky

"Jutsu transforms the sealing target into a gravitational core in the sky, attracting rock formations that bury it alive. This forms a celestial body in the sky that can serve as a prison even for a Tailed Beast."
HetNkKv.jpg
 
Padaruyos said:
Okay just rewatched the scene.

The SPCT and Kaguya is constantly moving upwards when the moon is being formed. It's not like the other CTs where the core just stayed in place.

Also when Sasuke sealed the Bijuus in his CT it was forming as the sealed Bijuus inside are pushed upwards.
Click to expand...
I just rewatched it again and it never moves. Specifically we see it occupy the exact space that kaguya etso was occupying. They even showed it side by side and it was still in same spot. Never moved, just grew bigger.


And we can see sasuke can Specifically control his own and move it freely. This even supports my claim that a rinnengan user just freely moves their ct
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
yes it's part of the Jutsu's mechanics that they transform the target into a core in the sky

"Jutsu transforms the sealing target into a gravitational core in the sky, attracting rock formations that bury it alive. This forms a celestial body in the sky that can serve as a prison even for a Tailed Beast."
HetNkKv.jpg
Click to expand...
I think his argument is that the SPCT is created on earth, and only once it's done it was thrown to the moon. The logic is that CTs don't end up on the moon distance usually, only some certain distance above ground. To move it, Hagoromo uses Rinnegan telekinesis to push it to orbit. That was the case with Nard and Sauce's SPCT (exact same jutsu), once the planetoid is done it just sits there and not moved.

Watching the anime adaptation though, it seems that Hagoromo and Hamura's moon is forming as it was moved upwards.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
yes it's part of the Jutsu's mechanics that they transform the target into a core in the sky

"Jutsu transforms the sealing target into a gravitational core in the sky, attracting rock formations that bury it alive. This forms a celestial body in the sky that can serve as a prison even for a Tailed Beast."
HetNkKv.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes kaguya and sasuke and naruto fought in the sky, she was sealed in the sky. Every ct is made in the sky that's not my point.


My point is wherever the core is formed is where the ct stays. It does not move from there . When naruto sealed kaguya it stayed in the sky where she was. Where nagato formed his core his ct stayed in the sky where it formed.

Even when madara formed multiple meteors with his , he had to gesture with his hand to control the ct to come downwards as meteors. It is consistently shown that CT stays exactly where you form the core. Any movement of CT shown on screen has been rinnengan users actively using their rinnengan ability to move the body.

So why are we assuming hag and ham own magically slowly moved away from the sky where it was formed and broke the earth gbe and went to the moon orbit all passively as a result of the ct when that has never been shown. Isn't the more clear interpretation that they sealed kaguya some few meters above the air and that's where the core formed and the ct then hagoromo then used his rinnengan to move it to orbit?
 
Padaruyos said:
I think his argument is that the SPCT is created on earth, and only once it's done it was thrown to the moon. The logic is that CTs don't end up on the moon distance usually, only some certain distance above ground. To move it, Hagoromo uses Rinnegan telekinesis to push it to orbit. That was the case with Nard and Sauce's SPCT (exact same jutsu), once the planetoid is done it just sits there and not moved.

Watching the anime adaptation though, it seems that Hagoromo and Hamura's moon is forming as it was moved upwards.
Click to expand...
They don't really show the distance to the ground before it is formed so you cannot really say it moved. We just see it a few meters above earth forming and we are then told hag moved it to the moon
 
Padaruyos said:
Okay for now I'm pulling back my agree vote to neutral.

I disagree with the whole moving the moon to orbit being part of SPCT itself and thus not scaling to the GTs. It's not, the SPCT isn't created directly on the moon. It's created somewhere above ground (Narusauce's version is 3800km above ground calc'd.). And once the Moon is done only by then Hagoromo (maybe Hamura too but Hamura doesn't have the Rinnegan so idk if he can even throw the moon to orbit) moved it to the moon. So moving the moon to orbit itself isn't part of SPCT and is probably just regular Rinnegan telekinesis.

But I won't put a full on disagree since I'm not sure if Rinnegan gravity manipulation can be scaled to physicals.
Click to expand...
Gravity Manip techniques like Shinra Tensei can vary dramatically in output, as we saw with Pain on a number of occasions. He can go from lightly pushing the likes of Kakashi, to one shotting people like Gamabunta, to nuking Konoha. And we don't inherently scale Pain to the technique due to its variable nature, but we use feats in that case to do scaling.

But like the others are saying, there's not much evidence of them manually moving the moon after its initial formation. Obito's statement is faulty because he's far from a primary, or even a secondary, source. He also failed to mention important details such as Hamura's involvement, which is due to the fact that a lot of the history involved has been muddied, either due to the natural passage of time or interference from Black Zetsu.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Gravity Manip techniques like Shinra Tensei can vary dramatically in output, as we saw with Pain on a number of occasions. He can go from lightly pushing the likes of Kakashi, to one shotting people like Gamabunta, to nuking Konoha. And we don't inherently scale Pain to the technique due to its variable nature, but we use feats in that case to do scaling.

But like the others are saying, there's not much evidence of them manually moving the moon after its initial formation. Obito's statement is faulty because he's far from a primary, or even a secondary, source. He also failed to mention important details such as Hamura's involvement, which is due to the fact that a lot of the history involved has been muddied, either due to the natural passage of time or interference from Black Zetsu.
Click to expand...
So we going with "the moon magically moved itself to orbit as part of the technique " when that has never ever been shown in the series? Where we've seen that moving ct is done manually like madara with his meteors or sasuke moving all 9 ct to his fight location? Wow
 
So I'm guessing we'll still be using the scaling chain? Momoshiki > Toneri. So Six Paths Naruto would be 4x Toneri's calc so 354.96 Exatons, and then Majestic Attire would be Low 5-B since it reaches 709.92 Exatons. And we know Jigen > Majestic Attire so Jigen and Baryon Mode would Low 5-B
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
yes it's part of the Jutsu's mechanics that they transform the target into a core in the sky

"Jutsu transforms the sealing target into a gravitational core in the sky, attracting rock formations that bury it alive. This forms a celestial body in the sky that can serve as a prison even for a Tailed Beast."
HetNkKv.jpg
Click to expand...
When is the God Tier revision?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:

Premise​

SPCT does not scale to physicals.

Argument​

A common argument for SPCT scaling to physicals is that Chakra as a system is a UES, thus the SPCT jutsu as a jutsu would scale to physicals (of people like Hagoromo, Naruto, Sasuke, etc.). To cite the text of the ancient one himself, "These "Ace Techniques", however, differ from even regular Ninjutsu, not just physicals. They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu, and there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power. I'll go over a few prominent "special moves" in hopes of explaining how they differ from regular techniques, and why their existence does NOT contradict the premise of this thread."

Claim 1: They are usually FAR above everything in a character's arsenal, be it Ninjutsu or Taijutsu

The SPCT is far above any other calc that the God Tiers scale to in both Ninjutsu and Taijutsu. The crux of this point is that the other techniques and avenues of scaling for those who have the SPCT is not consistent. The next highest feat for the verse is Toneri splitting the moon at 5-C. Which, regardless of which side of the camp you are on for TCM Toneri backscaling to Shippuden, is well over 100x weaker than the 5-B SPCT that everyone scales to.

Claim 2: there's usually a very clear discernable reason for that being the case beyond raw power

There is a clear reason for the SPCT being far beyond what we normally see from the characters, at least in the case in which we actually see the technique being used on screen. Kaguya uses the Byakugan to scan Naruto and Sasuke, we are shown that a special, extra-radiant source of chakra exists in both their hands associated with the SPCT seals. Black Zetsu also denotes that the SPCT as a sealing jutsu is most powerful, and that the power within the seals resonate when it's in proximity with its opposite. So, we know that the SPCT seals have a special chakra, as a jutsu itself it is held within a tier of its own, and that the powers resonate in combination with each other. All of which indicate that this jutsu is not a normal jutsu, and all of which offer some explanation for why it would be beyond the raw power of the SPCT users normally. Kaguya/Black Zetsu should be knowledgeable on these claims as well, considering Hagoromo and Hamura utilized this technique in the exact same manner as Naruto and Sasuke did, so she/it has experienced this jutsu in practice before. Additionally, the fourth databook states the SPCT compiles a large amount of chakra to create these satellites (moons). From everything we are given, the SPCT chakra is beyond the normal amount of chakra being utilized by these characters.

Shadow Assist​

Shadow gave me permission to cite their argument, and they worded it very well so I'll quote them directly.
Pain goes from being completely dominated by Naruto in his six-tailed form to incapacitating him and forcing him to morph into the eight-tailed variant to counteract the gravitational pull of Chibaku Tensei. While limiting a character's strength based on showings from significantly weaker individuals may not be a decisive argument, it does establish a precedent. Given the lack of feats or statements indicating relativity, Chibaku Tensei is treated as a potent ultimate ability. The six paths variant is even more potent, capturing and nullifying significantly stronger individuals, albeit requiring two participants.

The point that Shadow is bringing up here, is that we have precedence that the Chibaku Tensei jutsu outscales your own physicals. Pain goes from losing to someone to absolutely shutting them down with his CT. Furthermore, in the Boruto anime we see that Fused Momo has to result to a giant dragon to bust out of Sasuke's CT, despite only needing small dragons to beat down on Sasuke. Which is additional proof that the CT and by extension SPCT jutsu are beyond the user's normal physicals.

Conclusion​

SPCT should not scale to physicals, because there is due reason to assume that the power of that jutsu is far beyond everything else in the characters' arsenals. As far as alternative methods of scaling, since we currently base all our scaling off of the SPCT, recently Toneri's moon split got accepted as concretely 5-C, so we can just do that for the time being until Shadow drops their god tier thread.

Agree: Slayer, Damage, Tracer, KT, Mav
Neutral:
Disagree:
Click to expand...
 
The verse is Currently on a nuking spree, 5A downed, Kashin Koji downed, Base code downed, UES in the mud, 5B Ex'd

Agree with the premise tho
 
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