SCP Foundation hires Medaka to do a very messy job

[Firephoenixearl]

You have a point in that tier doesn't matter but there's still the points of:

• It's temporary, while 682 escaped from a similar but permanent skill in 2 hours.

• Even if it shuts down the mind in shock, 682 has a 196,884-dimensional consciousness that shouldn't be affected by that shock in a meaningful way. And even if it is, characters in Medaka Box have come out of that shock in shorter periods of time than a day, so it won't incap.

You totally dodged the point.

The seal can last 5 seconds and 682 won't be able to escape it soley due to tier, so stop brining the time lap here.

Not only can Medaka just throw him into space after a bookmaker for BFR, but Medaka box is ruled by PIS, characters that reisisted the shock can be found to be weaker than those who didn't. Consciousness =/= mind. The mind shuts down due to the drop in power, it has nothing to do with consciousness. A tier 4 going below tier 8 will surely shut down that mind of his. And this isn't a transformation and unless that transformation states to have the "mind shut down" as an ability then saying "oh he got dropped to 10-C and was fine" is not applicable.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>682 is beating Medaka
Hold on, let me get my retirement message up and running.

Ikr xD

 

[Agnaa]

He won't be able to escape it due to tier? Since when is bookmaker 4D? Higher-D Medaka Box has been rejected time and time again, you can't use it here.

If the mind shuts down to the drop in power, then 682 should have no problem, since he's dropped from tier 4 to tier 8 with zero adverse effects before.

Also your two statements "A tier 4 going below tier 8 will surely shut down that mind of his." "unless that transformation states to have the "mind shut down" as an ability then saying "oh he got dropped to 10-C and was fine" is not applicable." seem contradictory. The first statement seems to be saying that the mind shutting down is the result of the tier drop and not an inherent part of the ability, but the second's saying the opposite.

Also even if his "mind" shuts down, shouldn't 682 still be conscious and not incapped due to having a 1-B consciousness?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I still hate that "he still has a 1-B consciousness despite no other character on the wiki who drops dimensions keeping any facet of their higher dimensional physiology unless shown, sealed or otherwise" argument

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I still hate that "he still has a 1-B consciousness despite no other character on the wiki who drops dimensions keeping any facet of their higher dimensional physiology unless shown, sealed or otherwise" argument

it's the 1-B consciusness in a 3-D shell

it doesn't drop dimensions

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm gonna sound like an ass for saying this but prove it. The burden of proof is on you to prove that it's consciousness is higher dimensional after being sealed despite that not being assumed case for any other higher dimensional being that's made to take a lower form.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

no, thats entirely reasonable

let me see if i can find anything

 

[Agnaa]

I still hate that "he still has a 1-B consciousness despite no other character on the wiki who drops dimensions keeping any facet of their higher dimensional physiology unless shown, sealed or otherwise" argument

Are there any other characters that are stated to have parts of their higher dimensional physiology in lower-dimensional shells?

But if this is still a big point of contention it seems CRT-worthy, since I really doubt Weekly's planning to ditch the 1-B consciousness for the profile remake.

 

[Schnee_One]

(Sigh)

If there ever comes a day where 1B consciousness gets thrown out I am throwing 682 against Sidious

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

iirc, the main evidence for the 1-B consciousness is that 682 still has memories from back when it was a Leviathan, but i could be wrong

 

[The_Wright_Way]

(Sigh)

If there ever comes a day where 1B consciousness gets thrown out I am throwing 682 against Sidious

Honestly, same.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"Are there any other characters that are stated to have parts of their higher dimensional physiology in lower-dimensional shells?"

IFF this is said about 682 (that parts of its higher dimensional physiology (ie its consciousness) is in a lower dimenional shell), then I'm wrong and you're right and I'm sorry for wasting your time. Otherwise, I'm adamant on my stance.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

"Are there any other characters that are stated to have parts of their higher dimensional physiology in lower-dimensional shells?"
IFF this is said about 682 (that parts of its higher dimensional physiology (ie its consciousness) is in a lower dimenional shell), then I'm wrong and you're right and I'm sorry for wasting your time. Otherwise, I'm adamant on my stance.

wait, i got it from the profile

• Dr. Gears stated that: "SCP-682 is not, in any way, a biological entity as we understand biology. It is a…thing, which has somehow formed a "shell" or "growth" that we have numbered SCP-682. What it is, I have no idea, but I doubt it normally has a form we would call "corporeal". Anything dealing with normal biological processes does not count with 682. Hurting it is like shaving the hair off a human: annoying, but not deadly. Time, space, and states of matter must function VERY differently where ever this thing is from, and it is functioning on those rules, not ours. It's like playing checkers against someone playing chess. it's the same board, but the rules and the pieces are totally different."

 

[Agnaa]

I'll ask some other people knowledgeable on SCP if they know where it comes from, then.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

"Are there any other characters that are stated to have parts of their higher dimensional physiology in lower-dimensional shells?"
IFF this is said about 682 (that parts of its higher dimensional physiology (ie its consciousness) is in a lower dimenional shell), then I'm wrong and you're right and I'm sorry for wasting your time. Otherwise, I'm adamant on my stance.

wait, i got it from the profile

• Dr. Gears stated that: "SCP-682 is not, in any way, a biological entity as we understand biology. It is a…thing, which has somehow formed a "shell" or "growth" that we have numbered SCP-682. What it is, I have no idea, but I doubt it normally has a form we would call "corporeal". Anything dealing with normal biological processes does not count with 682. Hurting it is like shaving the hair off a human: annoying, but not deadly. Time, space, and states of matter must function VERY differently where ever this thing is from, and it is functioning on those rules, not ours. It's like playing checkers against someone playing chess. it's the same board, but the rules and the pieces are totally different."

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

About that link, Gears isn't the original author, that's simply his interpretation of the concept behind the creature (on a storytelling/meta level, not a canon level), he states right under that that he could be wrong, and most of all, it's a forum post.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

imo, the "i could be totally wrong" thing is more due to how canon works in SCP

 

[Agnaa]

I'm pretty sure Gears is the original author, it's just not shown in the wikidot history since 682 was before the migration there, but you're right in that we should disregard author claims like that.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

even without the 1-B consciousness, it's been completely unaffected by SCP-963, which destroys the consciousness of whoever wears it and replaces it with Dr. Bright's

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He won't be able to escape it due to tier? Since when is bookmaker 4D? Higher-D Medaka Box has been rejected time and time again, you can't use it here.
If the mind shuts down to the drop in power, then 682 should have no problem, since he's dropped from tier 4 to tier 8 with zero adverse effects before.

Also your two statements "A tier 4 going below tier 8 will surely shut down that mind of his." "unless that transformation states to have the "mind shut down" as an ability then saying "oh he got dropped to 10-C and was fine" is not applicable." seem contradictory. The first statement seems to be saying that the mind shutting down is the result of the tier drop and not an inherent part of the ability, but the second's saying the opposite.

Also even if his "mind" shuts down, shouldn't 682 still be conscious and not incapped due to having a 1-B consciousness?

All Fiction can affect stuff throughout a timeline, that's good enough for 4D. And Bookmaker can surpress that.

Yes it's the result of the shock, that can't be applied to anything. Same as how goku just existing doesn't crush anyone in a lower statement. Even if they should be logically capable of doing it, unless it has been shown to work like that then it doesn't work. Same as how not every MHS character doesn't have "afterimage creation" due to sheer speed in their profile. And the reason why MFTL dudes don't get full invisibility via being 1 bazillion times faster than light so the process of "seeing" is practically almost worthless, you'll see his past not his present. If someone DOES do that then it does count though. So yeah Bookmaker has shown the ability to do that, while the cat thingy hasn't. Every author has their own interpretation of "laws of reality" and other stuff like that which they can choose to bypass, so no, not any logical thing can be applied to every case. Untill the cat transformation shows the ability to shut down the mind, Bookmaker 1 shots.

Mind shut down = incapable of moving, without a mind your body doesn't start up. Incap= making an opponent unable to harm you in any way. Even if you are conscious, if your body can't get up then it'll be impossible for you to affect that enemy. Also Medaka can just spam bookmaker which increases effectiveness or throw him into space for BFR.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

even without the 1-B mind (which he does have, i just can't find proof for rn), BM won't break his mind and Medaka gets absorbed

 

[Agnaa]

Okay, if that's good enough for All Fiction to be 4D then make a CRT and get it added to the profile.

Until then, it'll be treated as 3D and Unknown.

Also I'm curious, is there anyone in Medaka Box that bookmaker's shock has incapped for 24 hours?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

HI3 Absorb gets nulled by AF.

@Agnaa

Where is it in the profiles that says "af is 3d"?

Hard to gauge but it instantly incaped some ppl. Kumagawa has never needed to incap someone for 24h, bookmaker is usually a done deal for the remaning of your life. Though Bookmaker can be spammed and again...BFR.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

HI3 Absorb gets nulled by AF.

except not

682 resists power null to a pretty big degree

 

[Agnaa]

682 is Acausal so AF wouldn't be able to change its past.

If it was 4d it'd say in the profile "At least Low 2-C", which it doesn't. Get this approved in a CRT then show it to me.

If it's never been shown to incap someone for 24 hours, and we've seen people recover from it in much less than 24 hours, we can't assume it will incap for 24 hours.

What good would spamming Bookmaker do if they've recovered from the shock but aren't at full strength? It can't drop them lower again.

Also how is that BFR? And 682 has insanely good resistance to BFR.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

except not

682 resists power null to a pretty big degree

I didn't mean actually nulled, i mean get no sold by af.

It can't change it's past, it can change Medaka's past doe.

No. Dimensionality and potency are not the same thing. If im not mistaken the moon cell has some 11 dimensional stuff or whatever it was (that's what i was told), yet i don't see 1-C on her profile. Something can be higher dimensional without it being tier 2 and above. Hell some ppl have 1-A hax but don't just get 1-A on their tier.

BFR is literally throwing his trashed version into space or freezing him to make him immobile.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

AF is considered null for what you're saying it'll do tho

that doesn't help or change anything

true, but the Moon Cell is a bad example, since it's only higher-d stuff is creating 8D spaces and nothing else,

682 is basically a living(?) middle finger to BFR in general, so that won't help

 

[Wokistan]

Higher dimensional moon cell was rejected, but yeah not all hax gets its own tier unless you're reinhard or someone. Even The Emperor doesn't have "High 1-B/1-A through Existence Erasure" on his file.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

AF is considered null for what you're saying it'll do tho
that doesn't help or change anything

true, but the Moon Cell is a bad example, since it's only higher-d stuff is creating 8D spaces and nothing else,

682 is basically a living(?) middle finger to BFR in general, so that won't help

Uhm...no.

It does.

Still doesn't defeat the point, hax doesn't get tier.

He does what vs literally throwing him to space?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

AF is considered null for what you're saying it'll do tho
that doesn't help or change anything

true, but the Moon Cell is a bad example, since it's only higher-d stuff is creating 8D spaces and nothing else,

682 is basically a living(?) middle finger to BFR in general, so that won't help

Uhm...no.
It does.

Still doesn't defeat the point, hax doesn't get tier.

He does what vs literally throwing him to space?

so you want it to null 682 but not be considered null because he resists it? You can't have your cake and eat it too Fire

how would changing Medaka's own past help?

682's 1-B mind isn't hax, it's resistence/immortality

the Foundation's tried to do that several times and it's never worked

 

[Wokistan]

Guys stop quoting gigantic blocks of text

EEing things with AF to pull off a similar effect to power null technically isn't power null, unless she does something like erase their abilities. Bookmaker is though.

Fire you need to understand that "type 2 sealing" is not different enough from power null to warrant an entire new set of resistances. White Face prevents people from activating their anything, which is effectively the same. Power null resist still works just fine.

682 has flight...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

except not

682 resists power null to a pretty big degree

Eh...not entirely. His "resistance" comes from a resistance to transmutation.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Eh...not entirely. His "resistance" comes from a resistance to transmutation.

i'm not gonna start with this, but it's trasmutation via reality warping

the guy tried to turn 682 into a regular housecat with no powers, and it didn't work

that sounds like power null to me

 

[Firephoenixearl]

i'm not gonna start with this, but it's trasmutation via reality warping

the guy tried to turn 682 into a regular housecat with no powers, and it didn't work

that sounds like power null to me

LOL. Thats the reason he resists power null? Come on. Resisting transmution more than nulls the "housecat" thingy.

Sairaorg Bael makes ppl unwilling to use powers, so when do we add it to the profiles and also put resistance to power null if anyone breaks that rule, because it sounds like power null to me amirite?

So do i have to go around naming other examples?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Removing someone's powers is the definition of power null my dude, transmutation and reality warping have nothing to do with it. Plus 682 has resisted power null from other sources as well

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Removing someone's powers is the definition of power null my dude, transmutation and reality warping have nothing to do with it. Plus 682 has resisted power null from other sources as well

Do you know the difference between mechanics and effect? If you resist the mechanics EVERY effect gets nulled.

Zero Reset can be used for will power manip and causality reset or whatever we call it. If you are acasual you are immune to both of those though, because even will power manip is achieved through causality manip.

If you resist transmution you don't need to resist power null to resist being turned into a cat, just resisting transmution is fine as you stop the power from even doing anything.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Do you know the difference between mechanics and effect? If you resist the mechanics EVERY effect gets nulled.

Zero Reset can be used for will power manip and causality reset or whatever we call it. If you are acasual you are immune to both of those though, because even will power manip is achieved through causality manip.

If you resist transmution you don't need to resist power null to resist being turned into a cat, just resisting transmution is fine as you stop the power from even doing anything.

Did you miss the "resisted power null from other sources" bit?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Good thing 682 is acausal too so Zero Reset isnt doing anything by your definition

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Good thing 682 is acausal too so Zero Reset isnt doing anything by your definitio

Yeah i know, how is that a factor here doe? I was just mentioning cases.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Anyway, I'm keeping my inconclusive. As much as I want Medaka to win for being an infinitely better character (and I barely even like the Mary Sue), she can't put it down.