Sans vs. Kirby

[Inverted_Tempest]

Question, when does Sans ever use the teleportation offensively on you, besides at the end of the fight where he was only doing so to stalemate Frisk? The way you're all describing his usage of teleportation is something he doesn't actively do in fights. He literally doesn't until the very end again Frisk when he was exhausted. I'm not saying he won't use it, but Sans realistically hasn't shown to use his Teleportation Enforcement in a way where he escapes an attack like that.

 

[Jinsye]

He's also a genius.

Genius in the fact that when something is sucking you in.... you escape, by teleporting (which is his most reasonable option)

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I'm not doubting his intelligence. I'm asking if he's ever used it in a similar way in combat though. He only used it to force a temporary stalemate from what I can remember. It's hard to say "X Character will do this" if they haven't shown such an application of the ability though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

he teleports frisk furing battle (when the screen goes black and you are in a completly different position with attacks being already there)

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Not the same thing I'm trying to get at. Will he teleport you away from him as a reaction outside of a stalemate? Undertale's turn-based system allows him to actively teleport you as you aren't on the offensive. I'm not using Game Mechanics to justify the reasoning, but his current usage of teleportation is used when trying to get you into a situation where he bone spams. An application in reaction would be if Frisk was about to attack him and he teleported them away while doing so. I'm not talking about the end of the battle as well. He only used teleportation to force an in-universe stalemate by Undertale's game rules which obviously aren't applicable for combat outside of Undertale.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, he prefers to put bones over the fight botton, wich is the closest thing in game to putting bones between you an him. He never was in a situation where he would have been hit tough, so using it would have been a waste of stamina

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Then how can you say he'll just teleport Kirby away while trying to suck him in if he hasn't used Teleportation like that for reaction? The closest thing he has to it would be teleporting Frisk when they were trying to move around, but we've already clarified that the teleportation, in general, was involved in the fact he wouldn't let his turn end which is exploitation of in-universe mechanics and not combat applicable.

And before I get someone telling me "Sans isn't suicidal which is why he'd use it", that's not the point. The point is that Sans hasn't used his teleportation in the way people are proposing of him countering Kirby just sucking him in.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Because at difference of frisk, he has tike to react to kirby and is inteligent enough to know if he can dodge or not. And in verse he was teleporting you from reaching the fight button, and the fact that he can do it, is smart enough to do it and is willing to do anything to wing is the point. Saying he will not the oportunity is like saying thunder mcqeen will not use a way to suicide he hasn't in canon if given a chance

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Sans was faster than Frisk, what are you even getting at? Again, your only counter to this is his intelligence. I'm not disregarding his intelligence, it's the matter of Sans hasn't used his Teleportation like that whatsoever. Your entire point relies on, "Sans is a genius, therefore he can use his Teleportation like this." That claim, in of itself, is faulty logic. You ignore how Sans fights in canon.

Again, not the same thing. Sans was using his Teleportation for a stalemate, not in the reaction to an attack. Frisk's soul moving and the movement back of it still isn't the same thing. He isn't actively being attacked there, not until he falls asleep. That is his offense usage, not in reaction. I do not know anything about Part VI of Jojo to respond to that portion of the claim, but I'm saying you can't conclude Sans will use a certain ability in x way when he's not done such. It's an unwarranted assertion with a faulty basis when Sans has never done such, only using his speed to react to attacks.

Unless you have an actually valid refute to Kirby just sucking him in, I don't see why that winning condition is invalid for Kirby. If you want the 'tl';dr version, it comes down to the fact Sans has never used Teleportation in Reaction. You cannot assert he will do so if there are no prior showings of him using his Teleportation like that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Sans was caught of guard by the second attack frisk did, and couldn't react to it. He alsoisn't immensly faster than frisk. Sans also never had to use the teleportation before.

You are asking why he didn't use a power that would have been either a waste of energy or where he couldn't react. No. Frisk soul is allowed to move, only when it goes towards the fight button that it's teleported

The last is simply false for the sheer fact that he was never in a situation where he needed it but was able to react. If he were to see an attack coming and still be hit you would have a point, anywhere prior to that teleportation would have been useless to use when he can just dodge naturaly.

It's like saying that saitama will never go serious because he hasn't done so in character, even if he was wounded and knows the enemy is stronger than him

 

[GyroNutz]

So if this has been 4-7 for a long time, can't this be added?

 

[Arceus0x]

kirby can likely keep dodging Sans' attacks and then catch him off guard. kirby has higher ap and can suck up sans' attacks and then throw it back at him. Kirby outwits.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This kirby actualy slowes down a lot while sucking, which doesn't help against omnidirectional hits.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Well Sans has the Speed edge. His reaction speed is faster than kirby's and so is his Attack and travel speed. Sans is also WAYY Smarter than Kirby and with Sans 4th wall awareness and 4th wall breaks he can learn all about Kirby just as he learnt all about us in Undertale. Sans also has better range and hax than Kirby which will give him an edge.

Sans has spatial manipulation, Soul manipulation, Karma HAX (I like to use as term for people who use hax that damage you based on the sins you commit such as Ghost rider's penance stare and Sans' KR), Telekinesis And Teleportation for his HAX.

Those are decent Hax but in the end Kirby is more versatile in terms abilities than Sans but Kirby only gets his abilities from eating in stuff which Sans can always prevent due to his speed.

Edges:

Sans : Faster, Smarter, Has Better Hax and Range

Kirby: Stronger, Older, More Durable and Supposedly has Infinite stamina

Kirby has not committed any Sins and sans struggle to beat a person 15 times who has committed sins and has mountain level durability (Sans cannonly kills you 14 times in the geno route and once in the pacifist route when Asriel absorbs him and his brother's souls) but he did beat flowey many many MANY times and flowey even stated he could not get past Sans.

But still sans will struggle to beat Kirby at the end of day since Kirby hasn't committed any sins plus Kirby only needs one hit to finish the Sans off . Sans can't keep dodging forever. Sans will lock Kirby in a place so Kirby can't harm sans and since Kirby is dumb he won't figure out how to get out of the Sans' lock ability.

And yes sans only get's tierd when he dodges but not when he attacks. If you Keep checking him you will notice and see that Sans can theoretically ATTACK FOREVER but if you try landing a hit on him he will get tired slowly.

And anyways this was video game Kirby and not anime Kirby. Anime Kirby is much much MUCH weaker than regular video game Kirby by a definite amount.

Since we have anime Kirby Sans will win because of HAX, Speed, Intelligence and Range

Winner for me is SANS THE SKELETON

 

[Jinsye]

KR isn't related to sins.

Plus Kirby's killed a shitton of monsters anyways.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Also sans can avoid being sucked in via tp(Teleportation) and telekinesis. Sans also has the skill edge over anime Kirby and SOOO much more via FRA

 

[Apatheticskell]

KR isn't related to sins.

Plus Kirby's killed a shitton of monsters anyways.

Ok are they innocent or No( the monsters that Kirby killed)and plus KR is related to sins

So your just proving the fact that Sans kills Kirby unless you agree with Sans winning.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No it isn't.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Yes KR is related to sins hence it's name KARMIC RETRIBUTION and NVM about the monsters being innocent KR still harms people who have killed for any reason all be it good or bad.

I mean you can kill papyrus for his puzzles, Undyne for recklessly attacking you even if you have not hurt anyone or done anything wrong and kill her because she is lesbian, Kill toriel for nearly kidnaping you and the fact she told you to kill her, Flowey for killing almost everyone countless times, Kill MTT because of puzzles and he nearly killed you if it was not for alphys, Speaking of Alphys KILL alphys for being lesbian and Lying to others about the amalgamates ,Kill Napstablook to end his misery and depression,Kill Asgore for the 6 human souls he killed and Kill Sans for his death threats and laziness.

Well these are valid reasons on why you should kill these characters but BOOM KR will still harm you.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Karmic Retribution isn't a canon name. Even then, a name is just a name. It doesn't actually show that property and thus we can't assume it does.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Well still the name isn't cannon but the ability is.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No it isn't. You haven't proved how it's reliant on sins and karma except for the name, which isn't enough.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Undertale is about consequences and justice this can be proven by many examples and in the genocide route sans is the only one who punishes you for your sins and The ppl and monsters you killed hence KR is karma or karmic retribution

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Which is...not enough. You've given me nothing concrete about Sans' KR damage varying on one's sins. All you've said to me with this post is that Undertale has a theme of justice and that Sans comes in to fight you.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

KR doesn't care about morality. End of discussion.

Sans FRA.

 

[Wokistan]

4th wall breaking does not work this way.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Well Guess what it does that's how sans knows the world will be reset because reset is game Mechanic and sans knows this because he has broken the 4th wall. People like Gwen-pool hav also used to defeat characters and the only one she can't defeat is Deadpool because she does'nt read Deadpool comics so Gwen people knows and can defeat all marvel characters thanks to 4th wall breaks and reading their comics and the same can also be said for Sans The Skeleton.

 

[Wokistan]

Cross verse scaling is a big no. Sans knew about resets through research and inference, not because of some gay.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Lol no there is no way you can research about a game mechanic in a video game when you do a true reset sans forgets what happened in the previous timelines. So 4th wall breaks is the only way and this not cross scaling btw it's just sans learning everything about his opponent.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Lol no there is no way you can research about a game mechanic in a video game when you do a true reset sans forgets what happened in the previous timelines. So 4th wall breaks is the only way and this not cross scaling btw it's just sans learning everything about his opponent.

Just because one person can break the forth wall that way doesn't mean Sans can. It's not gameplay mechanics if it exists in universe and is mentioned as part of the plot.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except he can't. That's nowhere near in his powerset.

Also don't pull a "lol no" when that's literally, canonically how he came to know about resets or the player. He never even explicitly spelled out that UT was a game or anything. He just talked to the mysterious entity that is the player.

 

[Wokistan]

It is straight up stated that that is how he did it. Sans messes with game mechanics in all sorts of other ways, so there is no reason for him to not, you know, detail his findings. The quote was sometbing like "our reports point to timelines starting and stopping, then suddenly they just disappear, you're doing that aren't you". 4th wall breaking is useless here, doesn't mean that sans can read the other dudes file or whatever. It would be a far more revelant power if that was how it worked.

 

[Apatheticskell]

The fact he even knows about game Mechanics and the player is because 4th wall breaks and there is literally no other way he can know about those things and not mention even flowey talks to you at the end of the neutral route and once when you have defeated him the pacifist route. So it confirms both these characters have 4th wall breaks.

I think I'll avoid "lol no" to make this more serious etc.

 

[Wokistan]

That is not how we consider fourth wall breaking on this site. While sans does do it, and also can mess with the game, that does not give him intimate knowledge of everybody he fights on this site.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Flowey talked either to Frisk or Chara in all situations. Arguably, only Chara or Sans ever talked to the player. Even then, none of them acknowledged them as an actual player playing a game, just a mysterious entity that acts like a player would.

Even then, this would not give Sans any ability whatsoever.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Except he learned about that by researching space-time, which is something that fictional scientists do all the time without 4th wall breaking. He doesn't know his reality is a game, he can only observe the affects that has on space-time.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Well explain when frisk is hiding behind a lamp post sans is telling puns why does the camera zoom in on him and winks at the camera 4TH WALL BREAKS.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Interacting with the player is 4th wall breaks

 

[Wokistan]

You realize that regardless of whether or not sans has that ability, it is totally useless on this site, right?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Well explain when frisk is hiding behind a lamp post sans is telling puns why does the camera zoom in on him and winks at the camera 4TH WALL BREAKS.

...Or it could just be a joke. Gag feats usually aren't used here if they're inconsistent with a characters power set.