Sans vs. Kirby

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How would game mechanics make it impossible when he has featured teleportation within the fight? He's teleporting you from reaching the fight button so you don't engage in your turn next, it shouldn't even be added as part of in-character as he's doing soemthing that's basically going against the rules of the game.

no. That's just... Do you understand that programming such a radical change by teleporting you while on the selections button would be a nightmare? Or even worse, teleporting the attack animation? And also no, you distinctly try to reach the attack button-


Frisk a child fought Asgore, I see nothing wrong with asking the prior question. Not to mention monsters said in general humans are physically stronger.

Frisk could will themself into creating timelines. Incredibly, not every human could do that

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

One second you're saying the human soul is unfamthombly more powerful, the next you're saying because they're children it makes sense the monsters took their souls. I don't mean to sound rude, but pick one.

You are sounding unlogical, not rude. The fact that their soul is stronger does not mean that asgore cannot owherwhelm them. Simply said, the Durability of a human soul relies on DT and LV, not Durability.

Monsters only don't oneshot each other because they can tank soul attacks as physical attacks, kirby doesn't have that for himeslf.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

How would game mechanics make it impossible when he has featured teleportation within the fight? He's teleporting you from reaching the fight button so you don't engage in your turn next, it shouldn't even be added as part of in-character as he's doing soemthing that's basically going against the rules of the game.
no. That's just... Do you understand that programming such a radical change by teleporting you while on the selections button would be a nightmare? Or even worse, teleporting the attack animation? And also no, you distinctly try to reach the attack button-


Frisk a child fought Asgore, I see nothing wrong with asking the prior question. Not to mention monsters said in general humans are physically stronger.

Frisk could will themself into creating timelines. Incredibly, not every human could do that

I'm unsure on what you're trying to argue here. I never said he needed to program teleporting the attack animation, I said simply that the entire scene is more questionable since it revolves around a tremendous 4th wall break that's only done via in-game rules.

I'll add this refute to the second part of your comment, you outright said with one of the quotes that the human soul is so unfathombly stronger that it would take all the monsters in the underground just to equate to one. How can Asgore overwhelm one human soul if it's literally equal to the power of himself and every other monster? Nothing I said here is illogical, no offense, but what you're trying to imply is illogical. Human souls are unfathombly stronger then monster souls to such a degree that you require every monster in the underground just to equal one, yet Asgore is capable of overwhelming the souls? My solution seems far more simple, the humans physical form is incredibly strong and that's what the SOUL is powered by.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

'll add this refute to the second part of your comment, you outright said with one of the quotes that the human soul is so unfathombly stronger that it would take all the monsters in the underground just to equate to one. How can Asgore overwhelm one human soul if it's literally equal to the power of himself and every other monster? Nothing I said here is illogical, no offense, but what you're trying to imply is illogical. Human souls are unfathombly stronger then monster souls to such a degree that you require every monster in the underground just to equal one, yet Asgore is capable of overwhelming the souls? My solution seems far more simple, the humans physical form is incredibly strong and that's what the SOUL is powered by.

First, I gave an actual quote, second, asgore has the potency to subdue them, because attuned or not souls don't automaticaly equate to AP, wich is my point. Humans can be weaker than monsters physicly and still be above them soul wise. likewise, monsters can be stronger (like undyne) but they are still pathetic as far as souls go.

NO, your position litiraly disregards canon statements

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

I never denied any of the quotes though, I denied the premise you attempted to bring with the quotes. Asgore shouldn't have the potency to subdue them if the human soul is far more powerful then a monsters soul. Humans aren't weaker then monsters physically, your own quotes states otherwise, I don't know what you're trying to bring up here.

It doesn't whatsoever. I literally used canon statements for why my position works.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I never denied any of the quotes though, I denied the premise you attempted to bring with the quotes. Asgore shouldn't have the potency to subdue them if the human soul is far more powerful then a monsters soul. Humans aren't weaker then monsters physically, your own quotes states otherwise, I don't know what you're trying to bring up here

Are you kidding. The quote litiraly says that a human soul is stronger than a monster soul.

I admit that I worded it wrong tough. What I meant that monster magic is stronger than a human child is physicly. And my point is that the attack potency does not correlate to its potency, and is the other way aropund in verse.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

Human souls are stronger then monster soul was my entire point. My point with the soul form is just that it's an easier way for the monsters to fight humans due to a human's physical form being far more powerfu then monsters physically.

Monster Magic > Human Child physically? If that's the case then why would they engage in soul combat if they're stronger then the human child physically with magic? If you meant physically as in pure strength, then I don't see what you mean by "attack potency does not correlate to its potency" when you're literally arguing it's stronger.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Human souls are stronger then monster soul was my entire point. My point with the soul form is just that it's an easier way for the monsters to fight humans due to a human's physical form being far more powerfu then monsters physically.

What? Soul form is litiraly attacking the soul.

Monster Magic > Human Child physically? If that's the case then why would they engage in soul combat if they're stronger then the human child physically with magic? If you meant physically as in pure strength, then I don't see what you mean by "attack potency does not correlate to its potency" when you're literally arguing it's stronger

Because that's what their magic does. its like asking why a sniper uses his weapon to snipe. A monsters magic attacks souls

"attack potency does not correlate to its potency" when you're literally arguing it's stronger.

Yeah, the souls are stronger despite the children being weaker in dura

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

I never once said that wasn't what the soul form is. That was my entire point, it's easier for monsters to fight them since they're attacking the soul rather then their physical forms.

The magic is shown to do more then just attack the soul however, for example Toriel can use her magic outside of soul battle, and Sans can teleport outside of battle, so there's no way it's restrictied purely to the soul alone.

But as the book states, the humans physical form is physically stronger then monsters.

 

[Bowman126]

Kirby FRA

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

So far it's: Sans: 5 Kirby: 5

 

[Eficiente]

Isn't it funny how the 3 most knowledgeable users on Kirby agree with him losing yet people is still voting him?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Irony I guess?

 

[GyroNutz]

Kirby takes this through better AP and dura for me. Also can someone the same speed as Anime Kirby get sucked into his inhale?

Two of the FRAs were for this which has been debunked. Durability is a non-factor when Sans negates it and Kirby has no resistance to soul manip. AP is irrelevant when he won't hit Sans before Sans is able to kill Kirby.

I haven't checked the rest since this thread went to shit, but I counted 7 votes for Sans before I even first voted. So at least 8 votes for Sans

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

I've already refuted those debunks and went over this argument. I also doubt you can outright remove votes just because you believe they've been debunked, that sounds more like wanting your own side rather then free democratic thinking.

I saw 5 votes for Sans.

 

[Eficiente]

Please make a CRT for those stuff, it should be separated it from this thread.

 

[Reinhard_Hydrich]

Kirby fra

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Kirby: 6 Sans 5/7(if Gyro's counting was correct)

 

[GyroNutz]

You can remove votes if they're objectively wrong. Saying that durability is an advantage against someone who ignores durability is flat-out wrong. Saying that Kirby wins via AP is extremely lazy at best and does not take into account Sans dodging/teleporting/gravity-manipping/killing Kirby before he gets a good chance. That's literally the same as saying 'Sans via better intelligence and better heat resistance' or something like that

Myself, Saikou, Eficiente, Cal Howard, Kirby71, Ricsi and TheArsenal all voted for Sans at least, with DMUA as a possible Sans voter.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You can remove votes if they're objectively wrong. Saying that durability is an advantage against someone who ignores durability is flat-out wrong. Saying that Kirby wins via AP is extremely lazy at best and does not take into account Sans dodging/teleporting/gravity-manipping/killing Kirby before he gets a good chance. That's literally the same as saying 'Sans via better intelligence and better heat resistance' or something like that
Myself, Saikou, Eficiente, Cal Howard, Kirby71, Ricsi and TheArsenal all voted for Sans at least, with DMUA as a possible Sans voter.

Nothing about this is objectively wrong however. I stated durability helps him and that sans ignoring it would only help him harm Kirby, but in terms of how the fight will go and that Kirby is far more used to fighting people equal to his speed then sans is, the minute sans attempts to dodge, he'll either get hit/just barely get hit, messing with his whole ball game of how he dodges. I already mentioned all of his other haxxes in the previous replies above. Also no, it's not the same as saying that since Sans intelligence works more on comprehending other timelines and heat resistance meaning nothing to the fight, while higher AP allows Kirby to easily one-shot Sans and his dura allows him to get past any of Sans physical attacks. So durability is an advantage in aspects.

Alright so Kirby: 6 Sans: 7

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Please make a CRT for those stuff, it should be separated it from this thread.

CRT?

 

[GyroNutz]

Sans doesn't go for physical attacks... all his attacks hit the SOUL, soul manip, which negates durability. No, durability doesn't help kirby.

It doesn't matter if you mentioned it in previous replies, two people said 'FRA' to your original vote of simply 'Kirby via superior AP and Dura', one of which is completely irrelevant and one of which isn't nearly enough of an explanation as to how Kirby wins and is pretty irrelevant as well.

So it's Kirby: 4 and Sans: 7

 

[GyroNutz]

CRT = Content Revision Thread

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Sans doesn't go for physical attacks... all his attacks hit the SOUL, soul manip, which negates durability. No, durability doesn't help kirby.
It doesn't matter if you mentioned it in previous replies, two people said 'FRA' to your original vote of simply 'Kirby via superior AP and Dura', one of which is completely irrelevant and one of which isn't nearly enough of an explanation as to how Kirby wins and is pretty irrelevant as well.

So it's Kirby: 4 and Sans: 7

I never outright said he goes for physical attacks, I said any attack he has that's physical is useless against Kirby durability wise.

Except that I verify more my reasons in my original reply, and if they truly disagreed with the reply from there, they could simply change their vote, or just dismiss their vote. To remove votes for no reason still makes no sense to me. Also my original reply also mentioned Kirby's BFR, not just his AP and dura. It was a question, yes, but it was another reason I stacked on.

So it's Kirby: 6 and Sans: 7. I don't see any reason to remove their votes purely cause you don't agree with the reasoning when I've already addressed the reasonings.

 

[GyroNutz]

I never outright said he goes for physical attacks, I said any attack he has that's physical is useless against Kirby durability wise.

Except that I verify more my reasons in my original reply, and if they truly disagreed with the reply from there, they could simply change their vote, or just dismiss their vote. To remove votes for no reason still makes no sense to me. Also my original reply also mentioned Kirby's BFR, not just his AP and dura. It was a question, yes, but it was another reason I stacked on.

So it's Kirby: 6 and Sans: 7. I don't see any reason to remove their votes purely cause you don't agree with the reasoning when I've already addressed the reasonings.

...

Sans doesn't HAVE physical attacks. He'd never, ever punch or kick Kirby in character. All his attacks are soul-based. Kirby doesn't resist soul-manip. Hence, durability is a non-factor.

I also explained why BFR wouldn't work, which you yourself accepted.

Point is, two people voted for 'Kirby via superior dura (not a factor), BFR (not a factor) and AP (extremely lazy, Sans has 4 ways past an AP advantage so that's not sufficient).

It's 4 for Kirby and 7 for Sans. We shouldn't keep votes around purely because you think that since the reasons for Kirby winning have changed, that the people who voted beforehand have magically changed their vote (they haven't). Don't assume that I'm biased either, because I love the Kirby anime

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

A person that's physical doesn't have physical attacks? Refer to my point on him still not being able to immedieatly one-shot Kirby just because he can ignore durability alone.

I accepted that both at same speeds could be absorbed. Teleportation isn't something Sans spams in character, and I highly doubt his teleportation is cross-universal range.

I've addressed this twice and addressed all 4 of those ways.

I didn't change my reasonings for why Kirby won though. I've kept the same ones and refuted any that went against it. My reasons are the same, therefore the votes should still count. Nor did I ever call you bias. If you don't want me to assume your biased, don't assume I changed my reasons for Kirby winning. I've kept the same reasons throughout this entire thread. Kirby has better AP and has a better edge when fighting Sans in speed due to experience.

 

[GyroNutz]

Sans has never. used. physical. attacks.

No, I said 'Sans would teleport away if he was being inhaled' to which you said 'noted'. That's not spamming teleportation; that's not being an idiot.

You changed your vote from the lazy 'Kirby via dura, ap and bfr' to actually explaining why Kirby would be able to get a hit (I think, couldn't be asked to read the whole argument). If the original vote had gone into more detail, then yes, the FRAs would be valid. But it didn't. So they aren't.

Kirby: 4, Sans: 7

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

I never claimed he uses physical attacks my point is he's a physical being, so he has physical attacks, any physical ones are irrelevant to Kirby due to durability.

I said "noted" again since that means inhale can effect equal dura. Teleportation still requires him to react fast enough to do it, and again once he's inside kirby, he can't do cross-universal teleportation.

I never changed my vote, I explainned on my own vote. The FRAs are completely valid. You're using the term change completely wrong. Adding more reasoning to the original vote =/= changing it.

Kirby: 6 Sans: 7

 

[Jinsye]

just saying.

Tiff and Tuff are able to save their asses from Kirby's inhale from holding onto something or ducking.

 

[GyroNutz]

So you admit that since Sans never uses physical attacks, that durability is an irrelevant point? Good.

His teleportation is pretty much instant, inhaling Sans is not instant. Do the maths

No... you definitely did change your vote. Explaining and clarifying points which would otherwise be deemed insufficient is a change. No amount of dictionary definitions would refute that.

Kirby: 4, Sans: 7.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

just saying.
Tiff and Tuff are able to save their asses from Kirby's inhale from holding onto something or ducking.

Any of these times serious or gag scenes?

 

[Jinsye]

Mate

Literally every time their caught in the crossfire they hold onto something, Kirby's inhale does make people lose their grip after a while though.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

So you admit that since Sans never uses physical attacks, that durability is an irrelevant point? Good.
His teleportation is pretty much instant, inhaling Sans is not instant. Do the maths

No... you definitely did change your vote. Explaining and clarifying points which would otherwise be deemed insufficient is a change. No amount of dictionary definitions would refute that.

Kirby: 4, Sans: 7.

His teleportation is instant, not his reaction. Note how people like Goku get hit right before they get can instant transmission.

That's not a change whatsoever. You're outright denying the dictionary of what change is. Clarifying/Explainning points is by no means "change" you're once again using the wrong word.

Kirby: 6, Sans: 7

 

[GyroNutz]

So now Kirby can inhale Sans faster than he can react? haha, no.

I thought since you linked it, you'd actually read the definition of change.

"to make different in some particular"

'Sans wins via AP' is NOT the same as 'Sans wins via AP, given that (insert reason here)' No offence, but you'd have to be blind not to see that there's a change here.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

One can simply be shocked of what's happening and be confused through that.

To make different in something particular means to alter, and if we're going to go deeper down the rabbit hole here, to alter would imply I'm making it different without changing into something else. So I am still at the end of the day not changing my reasoning, I'm adding extra reasoning. "Kirby wins via AP" is still my core reasoning and I've never changed from that. Only elaborated on. You've misunderstood the defintion here.

 

[Jinsye]

But like

AP super doesn't matter in Sans matches.

 

[GyroNutz]

Ah, we're doing this again. Yeah, Sans doesn't get shocked easily, and he's smart enough to know that if someone is literally inhaling him then he should get out of trouble.

Let's not go down any rabbit holes, because it's far simpler than that. Here's an example.

You could take the entire, say, Harry Potter book series, take all the detail out so you're left with the bare bones, which would likely be about 10 pages long perhaps?

If I tried to sell this; who in their right mind would buy this? It's lazy, dull and lacks all the features of a good book. However, if I tried to sell someone the whole Harry Potter series, well, I'd have no trouble selling it.

It's the same here really. You can't say that you never changed your vote just cause the core idea was the same. Fact is; you did change your vote and the people that FRA'd your original vote are not counted in this vote-count as the reasons given were either invalid or way too shallow.

FYI, I contacted an administrator, Azathoth, to double check this. They clarified that in this situation, we wouldn't count those two votes.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Oh if administrators already said otherwise I can't really pose any further argument.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Apologies if I came off at rude at any point.

 

[GyroNutz]

Same here.