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This thread is gold. How come I miss this?
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Samus Aran vs Gilgamesh
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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Time to go see if I can find any noble phantasms with conceptual defense against mind hax lol. Just to make sure there is no question at all kek
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Iapitus The Impaler said:
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Composite Samus is 90% Phazon I believe by the time she reaches Phaaze, she doesn't need to use Phazon at that point.
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I think you mean she doesn't have to activate it at that point.
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Well yeah @glassman
@pachi I mean, full composite Samus is 3-B 
@pachi
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@Pachi But what if I were to tell you......That Samus is 300% ready to kick names and take ass???? OvO
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@Monarch
You got a point on that one. I guess he would be completely immune to mental hax then (immune meaning on this scale)
You got a point on that one. I guess he would be completely immune to mental hax then (immune meaning on this scale)
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And there's more hax where that came from for Phazon.
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Going to have to step in and right this, but Conceptual Manipulation is not listed on Gil's profile. It's not on his categories or on his Powers and Abilities section. The closest thing was the Immunity to Modern Weapons. To quote what's on the profile...
Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age
However, all of Samus's attacks are supernatural. The Legendary Power Suit is not actually technology; it is a holy relic created by the Chozo God of War which Samus obtains after passing the Chozo Ruins Test. In fact, the suit is closer biological than it is technological. And the weapons are indeed supernatural; they can harm and kill foes who exist on an astral plane. Also, looking at the Concept Manipulation page, there's a note in that all forms of Conceptual manipulation need to be very specific otherwise it may be prone to NLF.
Still, I covered that Samus's attacks are indeed supernatural, so that overcomes the whole immunity thing. But Phazon Vs Gil's mind resistance is the deciding factor it seems. Also, the question regarding mind manipulation Vs resistance wasn't quite answered. Was it Scene 1, mind hax successfully manipulated 5.6 billion people, scene 2, same power source focus all their power on Gil, and Gil resisted it? Or was it just one Scene, mind haxed 5.6 billion people, in which Gil happen to resist it while said power source was busy mind hacking everyone else? The latter is pretty much useless as it makes it just basic mind manipulation based on Cal's new rules.
And even if the former is true, Phazon hax still looks wayyyyy more than just billions. Mind hacking the all the Tallon IV Chozo would likely be the equivalent of hacking trillions of humans at bare minimum.
Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age
However, all of Samus's attacks are supernatural. The Legendary Power Suit is not actually technology; it is a holy relic created by the Chozo God of War which Samus obtains after passing the Chozo Ruins Test. In fact, the suit is closer biological than it is technological. And the weapons are indeed supernatural; they can harm and kill foes who exist on an astral plane. Also, looking at the Concept Manipulation page, there's a note in that all forms of Conceptual manipulation need to be very specific otherwise it may be prone to NLF.
Still, I covered that Samus's attacks are indeed supernatural, so that overcomes the whole immunity thing. But Phazon Vs Gil's mind resistance is the deciding factor it seems. Also, the question regarding mind manipulation Vs resistance wasn't quite answered. Was it Scene 1, mind hax successfully manipulated 5.6 billion people, scene 2, same power source focus all their power on Gil, and Gil resisted it? Or was it just one Scene, mind haxed 5.6 billion people, in which Gil happen to resist it while said power source was busy mind hacking everyone else? The latter is pretty much useless as it makes it just basic mind manipulation based on Cal's new rules.
And even if the former is true, Phazon hax still looks wayyyyy more than just billions. Mind hacking the all the Tallon IV Chozo would likely be the equivalent of hacking trillions of humans at bare minimum.
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Same reason Cal said mind manipulating animals and insects aren't that impressive. Mind hacking Godlike Aliens is far more impressive than mind hacking humans. Also, Chozo all have great resistance to mind hacking as they resisted Mother Brain's mind hax quite well, who's mind hax is at least as good as what Gil resisted.
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Gilgamesh has the prototype of every Noble Phantasm of earthly origin. That includes the Prototype of Rho Ais, which is a conceptual weapon that bypasses physical interference to offer the concept of "absolute defense against thrown weapons"
And before you say "Samus's weapons aren't thrown", it was capable of blocking Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon, which doesn't throw weapons either, it shoots them like an omnidirectional gatling gun. "Thrown" refers to projectile weaponry.
And before you say "Samus's weapons aren't thrown", it was capable of blocking Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon, which doesn't throw weapons either, it shoots them like an omnidirectional gatling gun. "Thrown" refers to projectile weaponry.
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It may not link to it, but it does mention it. Read the Rho Aias ability description, for example. Also, when they say that he can use all NP that come from humanity, its implied, like he would have Phantasm Punishment for example. Its like Mirage Mewtwo, you don't need to list every single possible technique and ability he has, its implied when it is said he can use all the abilities of the pokemon gen 3 and before.
Archer EMIYA has the conceptual defense against enviromental damage listed in his equipment under his saints shroud. Does this mean we shouldnt assume that he has conceptual defense in that form just because it is not specifically mentioned and linked in the power and abilities section?
Archer EMIYA has the conceptual defense against enviromental damage listed in his equipment under his saints shroud. Does this mean we shouldnt assume that he has conceptual defense in that form just because it is not specifically mentioned and linked in the power and abilities section?
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You literally have a quote of Gilgamesh fighting an angry Angra Mainyu who was focusing really hard to mind screw him.
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Samus doesn't need to fire directly at Gilgamesh for her hax to land. Phazon and other types of weapons can affect beings at a distance.
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@DarkDragon
I can see the logic behind it, I just don't agree. Mind hax isn't something that's strained by knowledge or intelligence(At least not traditionally). So why use that to judge the potency of mind hax at all? It makes some amount of sense in real life, but in fiction where one doesn't have to be more intelligent than someone else in order for their mindhax to work on them, the argument that more intelligent=more impressive isn't something that should be used.
I can see the logic behind it, I just don't agree. Mind hax isn't something that's strained by knowledge or intelligence(At least not traditionally). So why use that to judge the potency of mind hax at all? It makes some amount of sense in real life, but in fiction where one doesn't have to be more intelligent than someone else in order for their mindhax to work on them, the argument that more intelligent=more impressive isn't something that should be used.
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Still sounds like you're comparing it to physical attacks, which Samus's are not. Chozo Ghosts were described as being immune to all elemental forces, but Samus's attacks still killed them. "Thrown and Launched Weaponry" refers to all projectiles yes, but that still sounds like physical projectiles. But again, Samus's weapons are not physical, meaning bypassing physical interface, doesn't sound like it applies to her. It's highly advanced Spiritual and Spatial attacks.
Also, 5.6 billion is still nothing compared to Phazon hax's level of mind manipulation. And Phazon spreads naturally, it's not a projectile. It's like Big Bang of massive hax and even the radiation of Phazon is extremely deadly.
@Yung, Yes, we're well aware of resistance to mind hax via telepathic barrier, but hacking human beings still requires more focus than hacking bugs and insects and all that. Humans have a lot more will power than animals do. So while being Super-Genius doesn't automatically make someone resistant to mind hax, it still requires a great degree to mind hax intelligent lifeforms and gods than it does normal humans. I still described each Chozo has demonstrating excellent mind hax that's at least as good as the mind hax Gil resisted.
Also, 5.6 billion is still nothing compared to Phazon hax's level of mind manipulation. And Phazon spreads naturally, it's not a projectile. It's like Big Bang of massive hax and even the radiation of Phazon is extremely deadly.
@Yung, Yes, we're well aware of resistance to mind hax via telepathic barrier, but hacking human beings still requires more focus than hacking bugs and insects and all that. Humans have a lot more will power than animals do. So while being Super-Genius doesn't automatically make someone resistant to mind hax, it still requires a great degree to mind hax intelligent lifeforms and gods than it does normal humans. I still described each Chozo has demonstrating excellent mind hax that's at least as good as the mind hax Gil resisted.
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Projectiles in the Nasuverse are not just phyaical. Dantes' flames for example are spiritual. Multiple guides explicitly say projectile, and make no distinction. Let me also remind you that Servants are also spiritual, and so are their weapons.DarkDragonMedeus said:
Enviromental damage and effects are conceptually negated due to the Saint's Shroud. What you just described sounds like enviromental damage
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Iapetus, you see how I struck out what I was saying about Dante's treasures?
That's because I didn't think that would actually work
That's because I didn't think that would actually work
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Phazon is superorganic substance and it's more Cosmic rather than Environmental. Phazon has produced Wormholes among other things.
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TBH wormholes sounds pretty environmental to me.
But then again Nasu has this big thing about concepts of earth being different to concepts of other planets, so Phazon might be able to get through
But then again Nasu has this big thing about concepts of earth being different to concepts of other planets, so Phazon might be able to get through
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Eh **** it
Switching to Gilgamesh for Monarch's reasons
Switching to Gilgamesh for Monarch's reasons
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- Thread starter
- #228
Wait, this is still going on? I'll be darned lol.
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Yeah, retract my vote. Gilgamesh takes this for reasons above.
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I'm still siding with Samus alongside Deus.
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He never does it in the first place. Not to mention not a lot of people here even update the vote count.
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I don't mean any offence to Cal because he is a nice and cool guy, but he does make quite a few bad Vs threads. It's one thing that he doesn't link the profiles in the OP, but the matches he makes are often times stomp/spite or just dangerously complicated and controversial. Example of the former was Marle Vs Goku, why would you put a character well into 5-A and has some decent hax against a haxless who may be super high into 5-B, but doesn't even reach 5-A? It just screams spite.
And this is closer to the latter. While both characters are brokenly haxed, making it very hard to determine the outcome. It's an underrated character who's often downplayed, which is typical for a retro video game character, against a popular character who's often wanked, which is typical for Anime and Visual Novel characters. The deciding factor is still whether or not Phazon hax will effect Gilgamesh, which was agreed to be far above Gil's 5.6 billion mind hax resistance. Phazon should at the trillions. The other defence was some environmental concept manipulation, but Monarch implied that it may only apply to Earthly environments and/or other basic planets. Positive it doesn't apply to a literal living planet, composed of Supernatural energy that exists on an Astral plane with both immaterial and Spatial Intangibility, causes cosmic distorations all across the galaxy, creates planets that exist across two parallel universes, And Chozo lore suggests Phazo can in fact hax the universe eventually. Direct quote here. Not to mention, the universe is full of planets that range from hundreds to a thousand times stronger gravity than Earth despite not having that much volume; their masses even dwarf actual gas giants which in turn have sizes that dwarf Jupiter. Those are planets unlike anything seen in our universe, or pretty much any other verse in general.
Chozo script translated. What is this otherworldly pestilence that infests the land, seeking out life in its blind need for corruption? And where did the meteor that brought it originate? Was it crafted by alien hands, or is it a roving chunk of a planet that suffered a violent end? Our minds quail in horror at the thought that long ago, in some corner of the universe as yet unseen by our eyes, an entire planet was perhaps once coated with this Great Poison . Whatever cataclysm may have ruptured that doomed place must have been mighty, indeed... and if other meteors from it spread throughout space, bearing this evil to the far corners of the universe... We hold fast to the hope that this is not so, that the only surviving remnants of this evil are here, on Tallon IV. Then, at least, there is hope for its eradication.
And this is closer to the latter. While both characters are brokenly haxed, making it very hard to determine the outcome. It's an underrated character who's often downplayed, which is typical for a retro video game character, against a popular character who's often wanked, which is typical for Anime and Visual Novel characters. The deciding factor is still whether or not Phazon hax will effect Gilgamesh, which was agreed to be far above Gil's 5.6 billion mind hax resistance. Phazon should at the trillions. The other defence was some environmental concept manipulation, but Monarch implied that it may only apply to Earthly environments and/or other basic planets. Positive it doesn't apply to a literal living planet, composed of Supernatural energy that exists on an Astral plane with both immaterial and Spatial Intangibility, causes cosmic distorations all across the galaxy, creates planets that exist across two parallel universes, And Chozo lore suggests Phazo can in fact hax the universe eventually. Direct quote here. Not to mention, the universe is full of planets that range from hundreds to a thousand times stronger gravity than Earth despite not having that much volume; their masses even dwarf actual gas giants which in turn have sizes that dwarf Jupiter. Those are planets unlike anything seen in our universe, or pretty much any other verse in general.
Chozo script translated. What is this otherworldly pestilence that infests the land, seeking out life in its blind need for corruption? And where did the meteor that brought it originate? Was it crafted by alien hands, or is it a roving chunk of a planet that suffered a violent end? Our minds quail in horror at the thought that long ago, in some corner of the universe as yet unseen by our eyes, an entire planet was perhaps once coated with this Great Poison . Whatever cataclysm may have ruptured that doomed place must have been mighty, indeed... and if other meteors from it spread throughout space, bearing this evil to the far corners of the universe... We hold fast to the hope that this is not so, that the only surviving remnants of this evil are here, on Tallon IV. Then, at least, there is hope for its eradication.
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