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SAM VS JOTARO (3-0-0)

FantaRin_The_First said:
If I had the willpower to even attempt such a thing, I would try to make it so that speed equal means speed equal in every category of speed. No ifs or buts.
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It was like that for the past 7 or so years, made threads so much simpler seeing as it meant speed was actually equalized, not 'speed equalized but one person still speedblitzes anyways'
 
Blame guns, unironically

I blame Mcree and MK gun dude in particular
 
So since Reaction speed is quick small movements, Jotaro has a clear advantage dodging one or two hits if they come in quick succession, but anything more than he's getting hit/has to use his actual combat speed to counteract. Because if he could consistently and constantly dodge at MFTL speeds for every single hit, it'd become combat speed. He's gonna get hit less overall, but afaik Jotaro doesn't really fight as himself often, so Sam would have better combat skill
 
Apeironaxim said:
So since Reaction speed is quick small movements, Jotaro has a clear advantage dodging one or two hits if they come in quick succession, but anything more than he's getting hit/has to use his actual combat speed to counteract. Because if he could consistently and constantly dodge at MFTL speeds for every single hit, it'd become combat speed. He's gonna get hit less overall, but afaik Jotaro doesn't really fight as himself often, so Sam would have better combat skill
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Maybe I wasn't clear enough, everything she does, he can react to. She will never hit him even with said combat speed equalized. He doesn't need to dodge at MFTL speed to dodge her strikes, he can dodge at peak human speed to dodge her strikes because he can react to what she does and just dodge them. Nobody is saying he's dodging every strike at MFTL speed, what's being said is he literally TASBot's here, that's the most simple comparison I can think of to get the point across.

Jotaro also holds a 3.4x AP advantage, she might be more skilled, but have fun outskilling someone who you'll never be able to get one over on because everything you do may as well be at a crawl. Again, this is not saying he will punch, kick or even dodge at said speeds, bar once or twice here and there, but what it means is he's basically going at this frame by frame. Ignoring Weekly's inability to understand an analogy, imagine if two characters are in a fighting game, hell let's say we have two Ryu's, both have the same attack speed and combat speed, but one is controlled by a human, and one is reading every input and then reacting to what the other does frame 1, the thing they react with might not be faster than the foe, but the actual "oh they did this, ill do this", is faster. Imagine if Jotaro is just a cheating AI ig in an old SNK game 🗿
 
Hello, just hopping in to say that reaction and perception speeds are two different things. Jotaro's reactions may be faster than Sam's but not his perception. He doesn't "see" Sam in slow motion, but he does "think" faster. What this means in a combat scenario is that Jotaro can perform quick one-time movements to avoid maybe one or two of Sam's attacks, but he does not have the combat speed to consistently dodge or block Sam if she chooses to just combo attacks.
 
Jotaro's combat skill has him like contend with a 500 year old sword that has copied and improved upon a person with 10 years of swordsmanship training and was swapping hands with it while it was actively adapting to his speed, power, skill, etc. He also contended with DIO who knows how to box with his booth boxing style technique.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Hello, just hopping in to say that reaction and perception speeds are two different things. Jotaro's reactions may be faster than Sam's but not his perception. He doesn't "see" Sam in slow motion, but he does "think" faster. What this means in a combat scenario is that Jotaro can perform quick one-time movements to avoid maybe one or two of Sam's attacks, but he does not have the combat speed to consistently dodge or block Sam if she chooses to just combo attacks.
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You've read JoJo lad, you know damn well when Jotaro is in combat he has like a billion years to react to something and even have full-blown internal monologues 🗿
 
Baken384 said:
Jotaro's combat skill has him like contend with a 500 year old sword that has copied and improved upon a person with 10 years of swordsmanship training and was swapping hands with it while it was actively adapting to his speed, power, skill, etc. He also contended with DIO who knows how to box with his booth boxing style technique.
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Stop wanking baken
 
Baken384 said:
Jotaro's combat skill has him like contend with a 500 year old sword that has copied and improved upon a person with 10 years of swordsmanship training and was swapping hands with it while it was actively adapting to his speed, power, skill, etc. He also contended with DIO who knows how to box with his booth boxing style technique.
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Thats with Star Platinum, not Jotaro on his own

Also Anubis doesnt make its wielder more skilled, that was literally confirmed to be false
 
Chariot190 said:
You've read JoJo lad, you know damn well when Jotaro is in combat he has like a billion years to react to something and even have full-blown internal monologues 🗿
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???

That's not diegetic. I sincerely doubt that characters have full blown internal monologues at MFTL speeds before they get decked. And even if the monologues were diegetic, Jotaro would just be thinking of how to avoid Sam and get decked mid-thought because his body doesn't move faster than Sam; it cannot keep up with his thoughts.
 
That's not diegetic. I sincerely doubt that characters have full blown internal monologues at MFTL speeds before they get decked. And even if the monologues were diegetic, Jotaro would just be thinking of how to avoid Sam and get decked mid-thought because his body doesn't move faster than Sam; it cannot keep up with his thoughts.
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"Jotaro is attacked at ludicrous inhuman speeds"
"Jotaro starts thinking to himself about what to do, reacts in some manner"
This happens all the time, you're right, his body perhaps wouldn't keep up, but you're comparing peak human attack speed to MFTL monologuing, he's gonna finish before he gets hit and then just do whatever at the same speed as said attack.

And diegetic? Lad, I'm not sure what else you'd call thought bubbles and what not happening in the timeframe a superspeed Stand attack is thrown but before it lands.

I can even think of one blatant time where a character in Jojo has a full monologue to themselves about how they can't physically react in time despite their mind registering what's happening.
 
Chariot190 said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, everything she does, he can react to. She will never hit him even with said combat speed equalized. He doesn't need to dodge at MFTL speed to dodge her strikes, he can dodge at peak human speed to dodge her strikes because he can react to what she does and just dodge them. Nobody is saying he's dodging every strike at MFTL speed, what's being said is he literally TASBot's here, that's the most simple comparison I can think of to get the point across.

Jotaro also holds a 3.4x AP advantage, she might be more skilled, but have fun outskilling someone who you'll never be able to get one over on because everything you do may as well be at a crawl. Again, this is not saying he will punch, kick or even dodge at said speeds, bar once or twice here and there, but what it means is he's basically going at this frame by frame. Ignoring Weekly's inability to understand an analogy, imagine if two characters are in a fighting game, hell let's say we have two Ryu's, both have the same attack speed and combat speed, but one is controlled by a human, and one is reading every input and then reacting to what the other does frame 1, the thing they react with might not be faster than the foe, but the actual "oh they did this, ill do this", is faster. Imagine if Jotaro is just a cheating AI ig in an old SNK game 🗿
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My guy.

'He doesn't need to dodge at MFTL speed to dodge her strikes, he can dodge at peak human speed to dodge her strikes because he can react to what she does and just dodge them.

This. Is. Combat speed. What you are describing is combat speed. The thing that is equalized.

In this thread, Jotaro has FTL reactions but Peak Human combat speed. He does not have 'Peak Human combat speed but can redirect his punches due to FTL reactions'. You cant have your cake and eat it too, either he has Peak Human combat speed and can be reacted to or he has MFTL combat speed and it gets equalized to Sam's level.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
In the first fight against it, Polnareff outright said that that Chaka wielded Anubis like a complete amateur
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Yes, and then every following fight it got better and better, learning everything that was thrown at him, adapting and so on, despite having changed hosts three times.
Anubis has only ever had 4 user's before, all experience, skill and so on is retained when he moves host (Stated in 6251, and the manga), he literally says as much himself. He quite literally does make the user's more skilled because he himself gets more skilled 🗿
It's also stated he makes those who pick him up masters of the sword (Both in the manga, and Veller).
You cherry picked one line, and ignored how everything after the fact, he retains all skill between hosts, it's like half of how it works
This. Is. Combat speed. What you are describing is combat speed. The thing that is equalized. In this thread, Jotaro has FTL reactions but Peak Human combat speed. He does not have 'Peak Human combat speed but can redirect his punches due to FTL reactions'. You cant have your cake and eat it too, either he has Peak Human combat speed and can be reacted to or he has MFTL combat speed and it gets equalized to Sam's level.
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"he can pull his peak human punch back at peak human speeds because he can react at FTL speeds" 🥱
You're overcomplicating what really isn't that hard to understand.
He can be reacted to, I said that like uh, idk must be like 5+ times now. But he can react to said very things, is he physically moving at that speed? **** no, but is he gonna be able to go "oh shit she's dodging/doing whatever" and react to that? Yeah sure. Nobody ever once said he's pulling it back at MFTL speeds, in fact, the exact opposite had been said no less than 4 times now.
 
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But nah fr.
"闘うたびに 強くなる妖刀 日本刀のように美しい刃渡りを持った刀型の スタンド。刀を抜いた人間を操り、剣の達人 にしてしまう。さらに一度戦った相手の能力 や攻撃方法を記憶し、戦うたびに強くなって いく。自在に物体を透過するという能力も。"
"A spectacular sword that grows stronger with each fight.
A sword-shaped stand with a beautiful blade like a Japanese sword. It manipulates the person who pulls out the sword and turns him or her into a master swordsman. It also remembers the abilities and attack methods of the opponent it fights and becomes stronger each time it fights. He also has the ability to permeate through objects at will."

Basic bitch deepl because I ain't translating that manually atm or asking people to do so on xmas , but there's the raws if you want it.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yes, and then every following fight it got better and better, learning everything that was thrown at him, adapting and so on, despite having changed hosts three times.
Anubis has only ever had 4 user's before, all experience, skill and so on is retained when he moves host (Stated in 6251, and the manga), he literally says as much himself. He quite literally does make the user's more skilled because he himself gets more skilled 🗿
It's also stated he makes those who pick him up masters of the sword (Both in the manga, and Veller).
You cherry picked one line, and ignored how everything after the fact, he retains all skill between hosts, it's like half of how it works
Click to expand...
My guy, a trained swordsman said his opponent wielding Anubis was fighting like an amateur, that doesnt bode well for the level of skill Anubis retained
Chariot190 said:
"he can pull his peak human punch back at peak human speeds because he can react at FTL speeds" 🥱
You're overcomplicating what really isn't that hard to understand.
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If youre gonna keep yawning maybe you should go to sleep, perhaps you will start being logical and stop making nonsensical arguments after a night's rest
Chariot190 said:
He can be reacted to, I said that like uh, idk must be like 5+ times now. But he can react to said very things, is he physically moving at that speed? **** no, but is he gonna be able to go "oh shit she's dodging/doing whatever" and react to that? Yeah sure. Nobody ever once said he's pulling it back at MFTL speeds, in fact, the exact opposite had been said no less than 4 times now.
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My guy, thats even worse, that would be Perception speed, not even Reaction speed.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
My guy, a trained swordsman said his opponent wielding Anubis was fighting like an amateur, that doesnt bode well for the level of skill Anubis retained
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Actually, it speaks exceptional volumes because he went from being an amateur to being absolutely asinine in the span of 2 and a half fights despite switching hosts 3 times. Or did you like, completely miss the fact that line was stated before even a single attack was thrown, on his first host AND he switched it two more times before arc ended, with Anubis himself saying he retained all that info even with a new host? His skill grew throughout the arc untill he was exchanging blows with Star Platinum, who is stated to be have one of the highest skills among Stands? like dude, how do you miss like, one of the main features of the Stand?

In fact
"心を奪う美しき名刀!! 本体は、500年前の刀鍛冶。 かれが作っ た刀にスタンドだけが宿っている。能力 は刀を抜いた人間を操り、 剣の達人にし てしまうこと。 一度戦った相手の動きや パワーは完全に覚え、 パワーアップする。 操る相手が代わっても、覚えたデータが 消えることはない。物質を透過して、 向 こう側の敵を切る技を持っている。"
"A beautiful and captivating sword!
The main body is a sword smith from 500 years ago. The sword he made has the stand in it. His ability is to manipulate the person who draws the sword and turn him or her into a master swordsman. He remembers the movements and power of the opponent he has fought once, and his power increases. Even if the person he manipulates changes, the memorized data is never lost. The sword has a technique to penetrate matter and cut the enemy on the other side."

But keep taking things out of context mate.
WeeklyBattles said:
If youre gonna keep yawning maybe you should go to sleep, perhaps you will start being logical and stop making nonsensical arguments after a night's rest
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Maybe if this wasn't all so tiresome 🥱
My guy, thats even worse, that would be Perception speed, not even Reaction speed.
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Literally every crusader brother, if they're in combat, they can react and drop whole expositions in their heads.
there was also that time jotaro had a whole conversation in less than 0.0003 seconds but that one's sus
Nope, he does not have that. Chariot is lying
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lmao
"Only Jotaro! Only Jotaro can keep up with the speed of light..."
 
Shadyboi0 said:
Bold statement, Can you back that up?
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Sure can.

For the "TASbot" Chariot keeps claiming Jotaro has, it would either apply only to one of two things:
  • His reaction speed, which would only help Jotaro dodge some of Sam's attacks when she is on the offensive but would do nothing to help him if he tries to attack back as speed is equalized, meaning that the second he goes on offense he is no longer utilizing reaction speed, he is using combat speed, which is equalized. Chariot's argument that 'he can just react to and redirect his punches at FTL speed with his reactions while still having peak human combat speed' does not work and would make Jotaro's Combat speed also MFTL, which would then be equalized to Sam's combat and reaction speeds due to speed equalization.
  • His perception speed. This helps Jotaro even less as all it means is he can see Sam and her movements faster, but due to speed equalization he cant actually react any faster than she can.
Either way, that wont help Jotaro in the long run.

For the AP advantage, Jotaro only has a 3x AP advantage over Sam, not even enough to oneshot her seeing as you need a bare minimum of 7.5x advantage to oneshot in a vs thread. This is also a barehanded fight, so piercing damage isnt coming into play, and Sam has a lot of experience fighting and taking beatings from people significantly larger than herself, meaning one punch is not going to put Sam down. That means this comes down to a test of skill, which puts the advantage in Sam's favor due to her having taken on and beaten several of the best MMA fighters in the world multiple times and won, whereas Jotaro without the aid of Star Platinum is primarily a brawler. On top of that, Same has multiple pressure points capable of incapacitating the opponent in seconds, including one where all she has to do is grab the opponent's wrist for a few seconds and they fall unconscious.

So yeah, Chariot's argument is way off the mark.
 
Chariot190 said:
Literally every crusader brother, if they're in combat, they can react and drop whole expositions in their heads.
there was also that time jotaro had a whole conversation in less than 0.0003 seconds but that one's sus
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Boyo

That is literally even more useless than Reaction speed. All that means is he would be able to perceive faster but his body wouldnt be able to move at MFTL speeds
 
For the AP advantage, Jotaro only has a 3x AP
Click to expand...

3.4 actually, but yeah you do you.
WeeklyBattles said:
not even enough to oneshot her seeing as you need a bare minimum of 7.5x advantage to oneshot in a vs thread.
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To oneshot and it be deemed an AP stomp is 7 to 7.5x, but if you don't think being 3 and a half of your foe combined isn't putting them on their ass, causing heavy injury, or even breaking bones, that's actual denial. You brought MMA quite a bit, but did you know that the gap between numerous levels of MMA categories is less than this difference? Which such a difference being deemed completely unfair, dangerous and enough to end bouts in moments?
snip about speed shit
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Maybe if I was arguing Jotaro punches at said speed, or dodges at speed, I am not, but literally nothing is stopping him from reacting to what she does with his 3000000x reaction advantage, and then playing around that with his equal speed.
You keep twisting what I'm saying to somehow mean something I'm not, when my actual argument is very, very, simple.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Boyo

That is literally even more useless than Reaction speed. All that means is he would be able to perceive faster but his body wouldnt be able to move at MFTL speeds
Click to expand...
He can react here and there
But, again, you don't need to have combat speed on par to, ya know, react to what your foe is doing?
If you could perceive and react to literally everything your foe could do moment of, you're gonna be able to work around what they do, especially if you have the same physical speed as them.

This is the argument, it's straightforward, you're overcomplicating it.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I don't know, I heard grace called earlier. Thread is a bit of a headache.
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grace was called. with 3 votes. when every vote pre jotaro upgrade is i think nulled now.
WeeklyBattles said:
For the AP advantage, Jotaro only has a 3x AP advantage over Sam, not even enough to oneshot her seeing as you need a bare minimum of 7.5x advantage to oneshot in a vs thread.
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3x AP, isn't a one shot, But head shots with 3x AP? which he does commonly? + better reaction or perception(i dont ******* know anymore) yeah no, i think my reason is sound
 
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