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Saint Seiya Seiya Discussion Thread

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Shining Trapezohedron said:
I wonder what "Big Will" really is ???
Do any of you guys have a theory on what "Big Will" really is ??
Supposedly, it's Divine Will but much more powerful, granted to someone who transcedented the 7th, 8th, and 9th senses. Probably grants the user Nigh Omnipotence (Like Zeus). Is there a possibly Apollo possesses The Big Will as well?
 
We hear God characters mentioning the "Big Will" here and there, over the course of the series, but generally in more vague terms.

For instance, it is said that Poseidon's sea temple was formed from his "Divine Will".

Regardless, information regarding it, and or, the 9th Sense, are very vague.
 
Typhon never woke up in Gigantomachia. We can't scale the Gigas we see in Gigantomachia and Episode G to those fought by the Olympians, it just doesn't work.

Having Hades be more powerful than Zeus is illogical and contradictory, it doesn't matter if it was written by Kurumada.
 
SF latif said:
@jip imo OBD is not the most creadible source for saint seiya.
they hype up saga to be the strongest saint despite shaka, dokho, shion showing superioity against him.
By the way, it's worth noting that in Episode G: Assassin, Shaka outright states that Aiolos is stronger than him.
 
@Jip7123 they get that from athena, whom showed casuality manipulation in G.A

no idea why saints get that tho

@Matthew not even talking about aiolos here, dude has no feat to go by and statements in saint seiya are usually taken with a grain of salt
 
SF latif said:
@Jip7123 they get that from athena, whom showed casuality manipulation in G.A
no idea why saints get that tho

@Matthew not even talking about aiolos here, dude has no feat to go by and statements in saint seiya are usually taken with a grain of salt
They get that, because Saints whose Cloths are bathed with Ichor get Acausality, and God Saints should scale to Gods somewhat.

Also, if you think Aiolos has no feats, wait for Episode G: Assassin. :3
 
Hades > Zeus is nonsensical .Zeus has always been portrayed to be the almighty & Omnipotent God throughout the series canon and non canon.

Also Hades was defeated by a Olympic weapon amped by 4 God saints

As for Cronus they're is a chance the Olympians furthered the gap between them and the Titans throughout the centuries Hades > Cronus wouldn't really surprise me that much
 
Still guides are most of the time inaccurate unless we're talking bout backstories expand on but even then they sometimes screw up
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Typhon never woke up in Gigantomachia. We can't scale the Gigas we see in Gigantomachia and Episode G to those fought by the Olympians, it just doesn't work.
Having Hades be more powerful than Zeus is illogical and contradictory, it doesn't matter if it was written by Kurumada.
In the present, Typhon awoke in Gigantomachia (novel) and fight against Athena (Saori). Ikki destroys his true body (again). Mei seals the spirit of Typhon to the end of the story. In the past, Typhoon and the Gigas was defeated by Athena and the Saints (Athena destroy his true body in the past).

Hades not is most stronger than Zeus. In the Classic Manga it indicated that Poseidon, Hades and Zeus are equally strong.
 
@Matthew i know that, doesn`t give saint`s casuality manipulation, acsuality? sure

@Akuto i agree. thus why some of saint seiya statements are not reliable. sometimes they make the most ridiculous onse
 
However if Hades is really above Cronus then we'll need proper evidence frankly...

Typhon is another story no way is he bellow anyone that isn't 3 sacred emperor lvl and Apollo was rectconned he isn't above Hades nor Poseidon
 
@SF latif

You remember when Gemini saga claimed that the staff of Nike and the shield could make him stronger than Olympians?

Yeah...exactly..
 
SF latif said:
@Matthew i know that, doesn`t give saint`s casuality manipulation, acsuality? sure
@Akuto i agree. thus why some of saint seiya statements are not reliable. sometimes they make the most ridiculous onse
So basically it comes from the cosmo's ability to "Create Miracles". Isn't that a bit of a stretch? Causality manipulation is a Nigh-Omnipotent ability. Zeus and Apollo maybe, but not everyone else.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
By the way, it's worth noting that in Episode G: Assassin, Shaka outright states that Aiolos is stronger than him.
Is a Shaka of another dimension or world (unknown if it is as strong as the Shaka of the original world).
 
So basically it comes from the cosmo's ability to "Create Miracles". Isn't that a bit of a stretch? Causality manipulation is a Nigh-Omnipotent ability. Zeus and Apollo maybe, but not everyone else.

Athena showcased it they aren't nigh omni tho
 
Akuto Sai12 said:
However if Hades is really above Cronus then we'll need proper evidence frankly...
Typhon is another story no way is he bellow anyone that isn't 3 sacred emperor lvl and Apollo was rectconned he isn't above Hades nor Poseidon
Apollo in the non-canon Overture is most stronger than Poseidon, Hades and Zeus. Athena indicates that it is insignificant compared with Apollo. Apollo canon or part of the Classic Manga is most weaker than three kings.

If you've read the Gigantomachia (Novel of SS) it is revealed that Typhon and Gigas were defeated by Athena and the Saints in an ancient Holy War.
 
@Akuto Sai12

Is a secondary canon as Episode G.

In the Gigantomachia only it indicated that fought Athena and the Saints never mentioned any God Saint or Saint carrying a God Cloths. The God Cloth appear only once in a battle against Hades.
 
@Akuto

Actually, here is what happened:

There was the original Giantomachia, with the Olympians vs Typhon + Gigas

There was a second Gigantomachi, with Athena + Original Saints vs Gigas.

Said second war was mentioned in the Hypermyth, and Gigantomachia novel expanded on it.
 
@Matthew Schroeder

You have not read Gigantomachia?.

Typhon alone fight against the Gods in their first battle. Where he was defeated by Zeus.

In the second Gigantomachia, Typhoon and Gigas tried to invade the world but were defeated by Athena and the Saints. In this battle Typhon's body was destroyed by Athena. Narrated in the Novel Gigantomachia.

It indicates that the Gigas and Typhoon were sealed by Athena.

- Typhon rompió las ataduras temporales y trajo a los Gigas de vuelta a la vida.
- ¿Cuántos Gigas renacieron?
- Solo recuerdo a cuatro: Agrios, Thoas, Pallas y Enkelados.
- Pero hay algo extra├▒o all├¡... ― Comenta Yulij, pensativa ― Seg├║n los registros del Santuario, Typhon y todos los Gigas fueron sellados por Atenea.
- Tiene sentido que la diosa haya sellado a Typhon, que es inmortal. Pero no habr├¡a razón para dejar a los Gigas vivos dentro de las ataduras.

Typhoon freed of the seal Athena.

De hecho, la Cloth de Mei no pertenece a ninguna de las tres jerarquías: Oro, Plata y Bronce. Nicole decide que este es el momento de contarle a Mei la historia de la antigua batalla contra los gigantes.
"La morada de Typhoeus". Apenas un poema épico griego preserva en estos d├¡as el nombre del m├ís poderoso de los Gigas. Con el tiempo: "Typhoeus" es otra forma de escribir "Typhon" ó "Tifón". El dios de los Gigas es un remolino que no estar├í satisfecho hasta no destruir y consumir toda la Tierra.

Renacido en el mundo físico al romper el sello de Atenea, el dios gigante de las tempestades se esconde en el punto más profundo de un conjunto de cavernas entrelazadas como un enorme hormiguero. En su delante está un Giga que viste un Adamas de cornelina.

In the third Gigantomachia, Typhoon and Gigas are defeated by the Saints (Seiya and company) with Saori. The remaining Gigas were destroyed by the Bronze Saints.

Typhon's body was destroyed by Ikki. Fragment of Gigantomachia in Spanish:

En ese momento se rompe el capullo temporal, la bolsa fetal. El vientre de Echidna se empieza a mover. Sus largos cabellos ondulan. Su piel sedosa comienza a hacerse levemente roja. Los senos redondos balancean y la cintura fina se mueve de forma seductora.

- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! ― La mujer grita con los dolores del parto.

La cría rasga por dentro la barriga de la serpiente. No tiene cabeza. Aquel ser hecho únicamente de cuerpo, parecido a un feto, el verdadero cuerpo de Typhon, es una gran piedra preciosa, aún más transparente que el cristal. El brillo del Adamas es del diamante del color de las tinieblas: Cornalina.

- Mi verdadero cuerpo carnal ― Typhon se llama as├¡ mismo.

Se mueve a Voluntad Divina del dios gigante de las tempestades. De la misma forma que ocurrió en el Monte Etna, cuando se transfirió del cuerpo de Mei hacia el del Sumo Sacerdote Enkelados, su aura ahora se transfiere para el recept├ículo de Adamas de tinieblas.

Pero, antes que consiga realizar la operación, el altar es envuelto en llamas. En el Templo Subterr├íneo cercado por las tinieblas, donde hasta hace poco él mismo era la ├║nica fuente de luz, Typhon para, iluminado por las llamas que incendian el altar. Su voluntad est├í congelada. La forma femenina de Echidna es consumida por las llamas infernales de Karma, delante de sus ojos, sin que pueda hacer nada.

Los largos cabellos de la mujer se queman, la piel est├í en ebullición, el aire caliente aspirado por los pulmones corrompe la carne por dentro.

- H├ö YOKU TENSH├ö!!!! (Vuelo Celestial de las Alas del Fénix)

Todo eso fue transformado en cenizas por el batir flameante de esas alas.

El recept├ículo de Adamas que rompió la barriga de serpiente, fr├ígil y vac├¡o, inmediatamente se transforma en carbón y se pierde en forma de cenizas.

- ┬┐Dónde est├í mi verdadero cuerpo carnal? ― La Gran Voluntad est├í durante unos momentos vacilante, sin destino.

- Ikki!! Eres t├║... ― Mei reconoce al Santo por la cicatriz que tiene en la frente. El superviviente del infierno, envuelto por el aura del Ave Inmortal. El esp├¡ritu inamovible, el m├ís fuerte de los hermanos que Mei conociera.

The spirit of Typhon is sealed by Mei. Fragment of Gigantomachia in Spanish (end of the novel):

El Guerrero de la Constelación de Cabellera de Berenice, el portador del Traje Sagrado sin jerarqu├¡a, los observa hasta que salen de su campo de visión y, enseguida, se voltea hacia el dios.

Los rizos de Hilos de Orichalcum, totalmente ajenos a la voluntad de Mei. Hab├¡an crecido hasta la pierna arrancada y la recogieron, trayéndola junto al joven. Los hilos cierran las heridas y suturan la amputación.

Mei se levanta y camina en dirección del dios de los Gigas, que corre, desesperado por el recinto. En el Campo de Batalla de la Gigantomaquia est├ín solamente Mei, Typhon y las cenizas de la destrucción. El mundo del Santo est├í en el m├ís absoluto silencio.

"Finalmente escucho la voz de las estrellas", piensa.

- Deus Ex Machina ― Dice entonces ― T├║ eres un "dios por medio de una m├íquina"

Mei controla los hilos cortantes que se mezclan en las tinieblas.

- T├║ eres un "dios por medio de una m├íquina" ― Dice Mei

Los dos escudos laterales de la Cloth de Cabellera de Berenice lanzan centenas de millares de hilos cortantes. Poco a poco, los escudos en forma de lágrimas pierden la forma. Los brazos, el pectoral, todo el Traje Sagrado se está deshaciendo.

Los hilos cortantes se mezclan con las tinieblas del gigantesco espacio vacío del Templo Subterráneo, rellenando el espacio como un capullo de un bicho de seda. Typhon está aprisionado, suspendido en el aire por los hilos que atraviesan todo su cuerpo.

- El tiempo se detiene ― declara Mei ― O la sangre de tiempos antiguos de Atenea, amalgamando el Traje Sagrado. O entonces las estrellas.

Este ya no es el Templo de los Gigas. Es el Templo del Sello de Atenea.

- La prisión del Templo Estancado. Typhon, yo soy el sello.

El "Capullo del Tiempo" que envuelve a Mei y Typhon es el lacre de tiempos inmemoriales de Atenea.

- ┬┐T├║, me sellar├ís? ― Duda Typhon, burl├índose ― ┬┐Por cuanto tiempo un humano fr├ígil como t├║ podr├í detenerme? Cien a├▒os? Mil a├▒os? Diez mil a├▒os? Para m├¡, para la Voluntad Divina inmortal, eso no pasar├í de un breve momento, un cerrar de ojos.
- Un breve momento. En este calabozo en el vacío entre Gaia y el Tártaro. Vamos a pasar este momento eterno juntos cayendo en este abismo.
- Que sean cien a├▒os, mil, diez mil. En alg├║n momento este "Capullo del Tiempo" se romper├í. Entonces mi voluntad estar├í libre. Y, cuando ese d├¡a llegue, aunque el Traje Sagrado ba├▒ado con la sangre de Atenea a├║n esté por aqu├¡, t├║, que ya est├ís muerto en esta encarnación, ya no estar├ís m├ís.
- Es el destino
- Un destino mezquino.
- Las estrellas no se olvidan ― Es el deseo de Mei ― Basta que haya paz sobre la Tierra como prueba de que los Santos vivieron.
- ┬┐Por qué me contradices?
- Typhon, Deus Ex Machina, fuiste t├║ quien empezó la conversación primero. Fuiste también el que dijo que no necesitaba razones. Por eso, esta es la Gigantomaquia. Esta es la batalla que no tiene sentido dejar en la historia.
- Entonces... dormiré por un breve instante de un cerrar de ojos.

En ese instante, una estrella más se desgarra del firmamento y cae.
The Hypermith is not canon. Especially the old version which was eliminated with the new version corrected.

The battle against Gigas is mentioned at the beginning of Classic Manga.
 
My theory on the Big Will is that its basically the secret 10th sense that are even beyond the 9th sense. It can only be obtain by those that can continue to burn his Cosmos forever and even beyond the 9th sense altogether. If Some good writer decided to take on Saint Seiya then I hope that they will be consistent with the explaination of the Big Will. Because SS is just like all other manga and anime, left a lot of thing in the Dark without any explaination.
 
If Typhon overpowered all Olympians sans Zeus, but in the other Gigantomachias he could be defeated by Athena, then he logically wasn't in 100% of his power.
 
Typhon only confronted to some Olympians Gods (not Hades or Poseidon and possibly Athena). Nor do we know under what conditions the gods were at that time (it is logical that the gods not were to the maximum). In their first meeting he was at the maximum. Athena defeated Typhon and all Gigas.

In their confrontation in the present, Typhon needed get his real body to fight with Athena. Typhon as an avatar (using a body formed by the body of the Gigas) had to flee from Athena (Saori). Hades and Poseidon can match or surpass Athena only as avatar in a body human.

Typhon not this to the level of Hades, Zeus or Poseidon, as noted in Gigantomachia or Manga Classic. It is logical that Hades and Poseidon are much stronger than Typhon, are equally strong as Zeus.
 
Episode G Assassin is probably going to show us Infinite Dimension and Infinite Multiversal God sooner or later. Then we can be much more surprise at how much more broken this series is going to be. But regarding Saint Seiya, does anyone have a theory on how powerful Ophiuchus Gold Saint is going to be ????
 
I dont think he will be anywhere near Low 2-C since he hasnt obtain 9th sense YET, because if I remember correctly. He was banish before that could happen. He should be around 3-B or 3-A at best but not Low 2-C. I will retract that statement if he is going show us Low 2-C feat.
 
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