Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[TheUnshakableOne]

"end of Hell" could mean a lot. the whole structure of the UW and its series of universes etc is all called "hell" where as Elysium is the opposite of what hell is.

It's meant in the sense of the literal physical end of that place, which is made clear by Seiya and Shaka's dialogue above speculating what could be beyond after crossing Hell and reaching its end there, and by Shaka highlighting that fact by pointing out how due it being so, light would never be able to reach there.

I just checked the raws to both those scans and they do not say anything about an "end" or "a corner"

1st one says "idk whats on the other side of hell"

2nd one jsut says "deepest part of hell."

nothing about an end or corner

Edit: i will admit i went over them fast because im busy with stuff irl. so ididn't jisho.org the kanji

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Small scale refers to the fact that it's concentrated on a single point.

there is no mention of being concentrated in a single point, at least in the official translation here, it literally says that it is not equivalent to the Big Bang

every time they are mentioned focusing on a single point it is mentioned in SS, at least here, when I see it, there is nothing really about the Big Bang.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Oh please. Now you just sound like a joke.

worse than not

 

[Hasty12345]

The top left literally says “equivalent to big bang” does it not?

 

[Xxiaa]

The top left literally says “equivalent to big bang” does it not?

The text lied bro

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The top left literally says “equivalent to big bang” does it not?

small scale: destructive power

 

[Hasty12345]

The text lied bro

I forgot Toby wrote the manga

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I just checked the raws to both those scans and they do not say anything about an "end" or "a corner"

地獄の果て is "end of hell".

 

[Hasty12345]

small scale: destructive power

That’s clearly not the correct interpretation. Stop looking to downplay, it’s small scale in that it’s small not that it’s weak. It’s verbatim stated as strong as the BB.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I forgot Toby wrote the manga

lol, every time when it is mentioned in the translation that a blow is focused on a single point, it states that it is focused on a single point, but this one is totally different.lol

 

[Xxiaa]

lol, every time when it is mentioned in the translation that a blow is focused on a single point, it states that it is focused on a single point, but this one is totally different.lol, every time when it is mentioned in the translation that a blow is focused on a single point, it states that it is focused on a single point, but this one is totally different.

That’s not the official English release nor is it the official Japanese release which both take precedence over this translation.

 

[StekFence]

That’s the sense I got as well. It should be small scale on the fact it’s coming out of the hands of 3 guys doing a kamehameha, but it’s still said to be BB level

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

地獄の果て is "end of hell".

i realized after i posted with jisho there was stuff in there that imply it

so im having some native speakers looking at it

but even then mathmatically which the wiki uses Infinity does have an end

What's Infinity?

Infinity is the idea of something that has no end. In our world we don't have anything like it. So we imagine traveling on and on, trying hard...

www.mathsisfun.com

 

[AlexZiggy]

Currently looking for the raws, but yes, something being described as small scale does not mean it's weaker, it can just mean it's focused on a single point. The original Big Bang wasnt limited to a single point in space.
Edit: Here's the English translation that describes it as a "single point"

 

[AlexZiggy]

Here is the raw scan
https://media.**********.net/attachments/959611949165973606/1065356971957567648/Saint-12-0104.jpg
DeepL does says it uses the kanji for "single point".
黄金聖闘士が 「三位一体となって放つ この技は究極まで高め ゴールドの攻撃的小宇宙が 点に集中するためその破壊力は
小規模ながら宇宙創造のビッグバンにも匹敵する
The Golden Saints "unleash in unison, this technique, taken to its ultimate level, concentrates the offensive microcosm of gold into a single point, so that its destructive power, though small, rivals that of the Big Bang of cosmic creation.
The destructive power of this small-scale move is comparable to the Big Bang of the universe's creation.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

honestly i plan on downgrading the classic golds to 4-A up to 3-A with max power 7th sense after the canon split

 

[Xxiaa]

honestly i plan on downgrading the classic golds to 4-A up to 3-A with max power 7th sense after the canon split

I think it should be noted that Golds are always in the 7th sense. Pretty sure there’s a guide saying it’s their base forms basically

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

TBH I don't recall any Gold Saint having any 3-A feats even via peak 7th sense or miracles, but Bronze Suicidalryu should get a 3-A with max power for deflecting an Athena Exclamation somehow

 

[AlexZiggy]

We can scale them to Seiya's miracle of taking down the Mainstay

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Here is the raw scan
https://media.**********.net/attachments/959611949165973606/1065356971957567648/Saint-12-0104.jpg
DeepL does says it uses the kanji for "single point".
黄金聖闘士が 「三位一体となって放つ この技は究極まで高め ゴールドの攻撃的小宇宙が 点に集中するためその破壊力は
小規模ながら宇宙創造のビッグバンにも匹敵する
The Golden Saints "unleash in unison, this technique, taken to its ultimate level, concentrates the offensive microcosm of gold into a single point, so that its destructive power, though small, rivals that of the Big Bang of cosmic creation.
The destructive power of this small-scale move is comparable to the Big Bang of the universe's creation.

I think it makes sense, I just didn't understand why this time they put it as a small scale

As Seiya's blow is mentioned to be a single point

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

TBH I don't recall any Gold Saint having any 3-A feats even via peak 7th sense or miracles, but Bronze Suicidalryu should get a 3-A with max power for deflecting an Athena Exclamation somehow

classic gold saints do have multiple 3-A feats actually without suicide and AE and the AE Being a sucidie move is wrong lol.

when has it killed anyone lmao

 

[AlexZiggy]

I think it makes sense, I just didn't understand why this time they put it as a small scale

As Seiya's blow is mentioned to be a single point

"Small" is a relative term tbh. A human is quite large in comparison to an ant, but microscopic in when compared to a tall skyscrapper. Same applies to sub atomic sizes

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

We can scale them to Seiya's miracle of taking down the Mainstay

Isn't end of the universe a bit too vague to automatically equate to a 3-A attack? I mean even the Saint Seiya story itself has depicted the end of universe in ways that aren't necessarily 3-A (such as the breakdown of the past universe in Next Dimension).

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

classic gold saints do have multiple 3-A feats actually without suicide and AE and the AE Being a sucidie move is wrong lol.

when has it killed anyone lmao

Who said it was a suicide move? And it killed Shaka.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

honestly i plan on downgrading the classic golds to 4-A up to 3-A with max power 7th sense after the canon split

I think 4-A makes a lot of sense, those quotes in the profile of the Dorado are mentioned about the micro universe within them, explained in the first chapter

It would be good to put 3-A with EA

 

[StekFence]

I don’t think so, because it would only not be 3-A if it were overtime, and saying that the mainstay could survive the universe ending slowly, doesn’t fit with the idea of them talking about how durable it is

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Who said it was a suicide move? And it killed Shaka.

Shaka wanted to die. Dude could have laid all 3 of them out flat but took his time to toy with them.

but people have this common misconception that AE = Suicide attack. i thought thats what you were implying.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

TBH I don't recall any Gold Saint having any 3-A feats even via peak 7th sense or miracles, but Bronze Suicidalryu should get a 3-A with max power for deflecting an Athena Exclamation somehow

and it really doesn't, only in a spin-off.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Isn't end of the universe a bit too vague to automatically equate to a 3-A attack? I mean even the Saint Seiya story itself has depicted the end of universe in ways that aren't necessarily 3-A (such as the breakdown of the past universe in Next Dimension).

Stek has already adressed the issue, but basically it was stated in reference to it's durability, and a statement of durability loses all meaning if it doesn't actually apply to it's durability. Plus, wasn't it sustained by Poseidon's Cosmo? You know, the same Poseidon who upon waking up overtook the entire universe in seconds iirc

 

[Hasty12345]

TBH I don't recall any Gold Saint having any 3-A feats even via peak 7th sense or miracles, but Bronze Suicidalryu should get a 3-A with max power for deflecting an Athena Exclamation somehow

Taking your shirt off is a greater amp than 2626th sense

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Shaka wanted to die. Dude could have laid all 3 of them out flat but took his time to toy with them.

but people have this common misconception that AE = Suicide attack. i thought thats what you were implying.

I was making fun of Shiryu and his suicidal recklessness as a character, like when he tried to deflect the Athena Exclamation and somehow succeeded.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Stek has already adressed the issue, but basically it was stated in reference to it's durability, and a statement of durability loses all meaning if it doesn't actually apply to it's durability. Plus, wasn't it sustained by Poseidon's Cosmo? You know, the same Poseidon who upon waking up overtook the entire universe in seconds iirc

is mentioned about the pillars of Poseidon?

 

[AlexZiggy]

is mentioned about the pillars of Poseidon?

Yeah I'm pretty sure they mentioned something about his Divine Will permeating his underwater realm. Cape Sunion had something similar but for Athena too iirc

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Stek has already adressed the issue, but basically it was stated in reference to it's durability, and a statement of durability loses all meaning if it doesn't actually apply to it's durability. Plus, wasn't it sustained by Poseidon's Cosmo? You know, the same Poseidon who upon waking up overtook the entire universe in seconds iirc

I'm not saying it's not about its durability, just that "end of the universe" is a really vague reference point to default to 3-A due to all the numerous ways such a thing could happen, especially when even the Saint Seiya story itself has showcased that something it considers to be a form of immediate universal destruction doesn't necessarily seem to be an outright 3-A explosion, and only 3-A in the range of the environmental destruction.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah I'm pretty sure they mentioned something about his Divine Will permeating his underwater realm. Cape Sunion had something similar but for Athena too iirc

I understand, but the pillars would only have universal resistance because of Athena, how would this scale for them? since there was no sacrifice of Athena

 

[AlexZiggy]

I understand, but the pillars would only have universal resistance because of Athena, how would this scale for them? since there was no sacrifice of Athena

Poseidon's Cosmo seems like a suitable replacement. The guy literally spread out his Cosmo over the entire universe after waking up. It's not hard to see this guy amping the defenses of his Mainstay to that level himself.

 

[AlexZiggy]

I'm not saying it's not about its durability, just that "end of the universe" is a really vague reference point to default to 3-A due to all the numerous ways such a thing could happen, especially when even the Saint Seiya story itself has showcased that something it considers to be a form of immediate universal destruction doesn't necessarily seem to be an outright 3-A explosion, and only 3-A in the range of the environmental destruction.

So wait if I'm getting this right, you're saying that the Mainstay isn't enduring the end of the universe all at once? Is it in reference to Shijima vs Shaka?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

So wait if I'm getting this right, you're saying that the Mainstay isn't enduring the end of the universe all at once? Is it in reference to Shijima vs Shaka?

I'm just saying it's inconclusively vague. Though I think I wouldn't particularly object to a "possibly 3-A" takeaway for it. I'm talking about the collapse of the universe that's moments away in the story currently, as an immediate and imminent "end of the universe" in the story.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So wait if I'm getting this right, you're saying that the Mainstay isn't enduring the end of the universe all at once? Is it in reference to Shijima vs Shaka?

Is this not symbolic?

 

[AlexZiggy]

I'm just saying it's inconclusively vague. Though I think I wouldn't particularly object to a "possibly 3-A" takeaway for it. I'm talking about the collapse of the universe that's moments away in the story currently, as an immediate and imminent "end of the universe" in the story.

Sounds like an obtuse way of reading into it ngl. Poseidon was speaking about it being vastly more durable than the other pillars, and said used the end of the universe as a benchmark. I guess the meaning remains regardless of what circumstances bring about the end of the universe, but it also has to hold true if the end of the universe comes to be under natural conditions.