Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Vários lugares no wiki aqui. Aqui e outros tópicos.

I would like to read them all, could you put them here?

 

[Hasty12345]

this is not from here, I think it is not very revealing, but I will mark

It’s less about “revealing” and more just giving credit to the person who put all that effort in.

if you’re gonna like someone’s blog giving them credit is the least one could do.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I was looking around and some stuff going around on Facebook, it seems the underworld has no size described as infinite, right here.

Firstly, the size of the underworld is not infinite. Most quotes that say that this kingdom has infinite size, in the original talk about the eternity of the kingdom of lands that compared to the human world will one day cease to exist, about the philosophy that hell, Elysium (paradise), will be eternally there for souls.

Charon claiming that the hell of the underworld is infinite
そ う だ こ こ か は は 八 八 つ 獄 つ の 十 の の ... そ て 四 つ 圏 う て つ な く 暗 く て し し しな い い 地獄 十 壕 し 四 四 四 の 圏 い う と つ も な く く 果 し な い 地獄 地獄 の

scan



圏 壕jigoku no sekai ga"

This phrase depending on the Kanji can mean an infinite space, for example

てしな果い"宇宙" ( https://tangorin.com/kanji/宙 )⇨ Hateshinai uchuu ⇨ infinite space / universe

However, that is not the meaning here, as Acheron is talking about the torment of hell, and how hell is endless, divided into eight prisons for judging the souls of the dead, hence the sense of "infinity" is a time endless, or as the kanji itself also means "evarlasting" and "暗く" for despair, then we have:

That's right. From here you are in the realm of Hell, which is extremely hopeless and eternal, divided into eight prisons, three valleys, ten malebolges and four spheres.

Malebolges are the "ditches of evil" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malebolge)

Going to the Elysium entry phrase contextually the "infinity" does not refer to size but rather the sense of something that will last forever as this is what Thanatos and Hypnos and the other underlings of hades keep bragging about the nature of life after death, as above.

1-言ったはずずだここは神話の時代より血で汚されたことのない実王だだ偮
( )⇨ I already said, this place is the territory of the Lord of the Underworld (Hades), and it has never been untainted by blood since the age of myth

2- "あそこ ハ ハ デス 様 真 の 肉体 肉体 が の より 眠っ て れる 場所" and "ただし の 眠り この ヒュプノス 与え 永遠 眠り だ" (http://imgur.com/ a/DaVIhlr) ⇨ "This is where the true body of the Lord of the Underworld (Hades) has rested since the age of mythology." and "This is no ordinary sleep. I have placed her in an eternal sleep"

3-There is also Mainstay's quote from Poseidon attached in the "Poseidon's Arc" section, where she elaborates further on the issue of Gods seeking to elevate eternal realms, because the matter of the universe has a life limit.

In addition to the relationships about the passage of time, and because they are eternal, we can also remember that in the beginning of the Next Dimension the fields of Elysium were moved to the earth and could fit there.

Seiya against Hades in the Elysium field (), Alone, Hades' host body from 240 years ago, being remembered by Hades himself from when Tenma was his friend, and himself in the Elysiums ( ). Dohko and Shion receiving information that Hades was in Elysium (), and Dohko was going to kill him now (http://imgur.com/a/My8oVye). Eventually, we are shown that not only were the fields of Elysium teleported to earth, but also Hades' shrine with his sword (http://imgur.com/a/238jilW), and also his castle (http://imgur .com/a/zQEp1uS ).


Elísios is not infinite and has never been said to have an infinite SIZE, who says that is because they do not know how to interpret a mere scan



死後 神に 選はれた者だけが 来ることを 許される楽園...

飢えも争いも 苦しみも 悲しみもない....

一切の苦痛や 煩悩から解放された悠久の浄土...

https://imgur.com/a/FMn4P32


"Infinite Prairies" wasn't translated wrong, I ask you to understand that, it's right, but it doesn't mean size, but time. As you can see the meaning of the scan is always denoting "Eternity" as there in Kanji 悠久 (ゆうきゅう - Yūkyū) which is a conjunctive form of the terminology "Eternity", and therefore the first kanji that it's 無限 (むげん Mugen) which means infinity, infinity, eternal, unlimited, it should have been translated as Eternal, just seeing an "infinite" already puts infinite size because it doesn't know how to interpret a scan. So, here's the translation accommodated for those unable to interpret a scan:



Eternal fields said to lie above the River Aqueronte...And beyond the River Lethe. A Paradise (Elysium) where only those chosen by the Gods can go after death... A place without hunger, pain, sadness, or wars. A perpetual (eternal) paradise free from all suffering caused by worldly desires...

Prairies in this case are fields, the author of the Brazilian translation put a very good word to highlight, but I decided to use the simplest one.
https://imgur.com/a/uAd8CrC


Here are all the Inflections of the kanji 永遠【えいえん, Eien; Eternal】

https://imgur.com/xz6wOpO

What is Forma-TE in Japanese.

https://tangorin.com/definition/永遠

The inflected forms of Infinite/Infinity/Eternity kanji 無限【むげんmugen】

https://imgur.com/a/xTgQal8

https://tangorin.com/definition/無限

To be perfectly specific, Elysium's fields aren't infinite in size.

This post itself is a bit excessive and redundant with the overanalysis of semantics, and a lot of it isn't even really actually accurate, but sure, I don't think anything in the Underworld is actually a universe or infinite either. Especially the latter since Hell has an established end and corners/edges.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It’s less about “revealing” and more just giving credit to the person who put all that effort in.

if you’re gonna like someone’s blog giving them credit is the least one could do.

ready

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This post itself is a bit excessive and redundant with the overanalysis of semantics, and a lot of it isn't even really actually accurate, but sure, I don't think anything in the Underworld is actually a universe or infinite either. Especially the latter since Hell has an established end and corners/edges.

I also thinkI

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This post itself is a bit excessive and redundant with the overanalysis of semantics, and a lot of it isn't even really actually accurate, but sure, I don't think anything in the Underworld is actually a universe or infinite either. Especially the latter since Hell has an established end and corners/edges.

The corners and ends part dont mean anything on the wiki. I remind this being a topic on the wiki shortly after tering system changes and it was deemed rgat infinity can have an edge and end. It being an anti feat requires more supporting feats.

 

[StekFence]

Hell has an established end and corners/edges.

Apparently, this doesn’t contradict infinite size on the wiki

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

That's a complete head scratcher ngl

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

That's a complete head scratcher ngl

It's mathematics

Only like Absolute infinity can't have an end iirc

Which is like tier 0 or high 1-A here

 

[Hasty12345]

where is hell shown to have corners and an edge? When seiya first ends up there I’d argue it looks like a void is in the background, which could just be infinite

 

[Hasty12345]

That's a complete head scratcher ngl

DB pioneered logic clearly

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

where is hell shown to have corners and an edge? When seiya first ends up there I’d argue it looks like a void is in the background, which could just be infinite

Shaka mentions the Wailing Wall as the deepest corner of Hell a few times and also calls it the end of Hell. The sky is never said to be infinite or even acknowledged besides lacking stars, Hell in general never actually is.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

DB pioneered logic clearly

Oh no, DB only went to 2-A for the sake of lay people to understand there are only 4 Galaxies lol

 

[Hasty12345]

Shaka mentions the Wailing Wall as the deepest corner of Hell a few times and also calls it the end of Hell. The sky is never said to be infinite or even acknowledged besides lacking stars, Hell in general never actually is.

Fortunately, the positive region of an x-y axis is infinite and has a corner, so if that’s the only evidence it’s not really a contradiction.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Shaka mentions the Wailing Wall as the deepest corner of Hell a few times and also calls it the end of Hell. The sky is never said to be infinite or even acknowledged besides lacking stars, Hell in general never actually is.

I don't understand, how is something that has an end called infinite?

 

[AlexZiggy]

Didn't the Specter say one of the rivers eventually lead to Elysium? That could point to it being finite.
Then again, they had to access Elysium via a literal extra dimension so if it does lead to Ely it's probably a portal or something.
In regards to the void thing, I agree it's just pure black above. That doesn't prove or disprove it being infinite.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Fortunately, the positive region of an x-y axis is infinite and has a corner, so if that’s the only evidence it’s not really a contradiction.

On an XY Axis the lines actually continue beyond said corner which only occurs due to the lines intersecting, but in this case, The Wailing Wall is also stated and shown to be the literal end of Hell itself (breaking through it even leads to a different dimension altogether). IT wouldn't be a contradiction in any case though since Hell is never actually said to be infinite in size the first place.

 

[Hasty12345]

I don't understand, how is something that has an end called infinite?

Ask the common DB fan

 

[Xxiaa]

Didn't the Specter say one of the rivers eventually lead to Elysium? That could point to it being finite.
Then again, they had to access Elysium via a literal extra dimension so if it does lead to Ely it's probably a portal or something.
In regards to the void thing, I agree it's just pure black above. That doesn't prove or disprove it being infinite.

From what I recall the Specter seemed speculative, and hadn’t actually ever seen Elysium.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Didn't the Specter say one of the rivers eventually lead to Elysium? That could point to it being finite.
Then again, they had to access Elysium via a literal extra dimension so if it does lead to Ely it's probably a portal or something.
In regards to the void thing, I agree it's just pure black above. That doesn't prove or disprove it being infinite.

I still think the bronzeboys crossed a wormhole, that shouldn't level up in speed.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Ask the common DB fan

lol

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

On an XY Axis the lines actually continue beyond said corner which only occurs due to the lines intersecting, but in this case, The Wailing Wall is also stated and shown to be the literal end of Hell itself (breaking through it even leads to a different dimension altogether). IT wouldn't be a contradiction in any case though since Hell is never actually said to be infinite in size the first place.

Ots only states to ne a border that divides 2 dimensions

 

[Xxiaa]

Gonna address the top part mainly since it might bring up some annoyance. The Specter of Hades calls it “Endless” so while not called infinite it’s called endless


Kanji for Endless/Boundless used (果てしない) https://www.deepl.com/en/translator-mobile#ja/en/果てしない





https://jisho.org/search/果てしない



Which is different from the kanji for Infinite (commonly 無限) https://www.deepl.com/en/translator-mobile#en/ja/Infinite



https://jisho.org/search/infinity



Which is also different from the kanji for Eternity(永遠) https://www.deepl.com/en/translator-mobile#ja/en/永遠



https://jisho.org/search/eternity

The first statement we get about Hell itself and the base layer of the Underworld I guess. It’s referred to as Endless in both official and Raws

 

[StekFence]

That's a complete head scratcher ngl

in math, anything can have an end, it’s just the distance to it, is infinite.

 

[AlexZiggy]

From what I recall the Specter seemed speculative, and hadn’t actually ever seen Elysium.

Yeah, it's not a good position to take. They are likely seperate spaces. Wether they are infinite or not depends on how you interpret the kanji I guess. Though I also don't get why Kuru would emphasize the same thing in the same passage.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Ots only states to ne a border that divides 2 dimensions

It's described to be the end of Hell in the story, and it leads to the next destination (Elysion) because of that fact.

 

[Hasty12345]

The UW structure should at least be 4-A to 3-B in size given Hades himself says elysium is along the river and you need to cross billions of light years or whatever the number is.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It's described to be the end of Hell in the story, and it leads to the next destination (Elysion) because of that fact.

"end of Hell" could mean a lot. the whole structure of the UW and its series of universes etc is all called "hell" where as Elysium is the opposite of what hell is.

 

[Xxiaa]

The UW structure should at least be 4-A to 3-B in size given Hades himself says elysium is along the river and you need to cross billions of light years or whatever the number is.

Mountain Level Aiolia

 

[Hasty12345]

Mountain Level Aiolia

??

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

"end of Hell" could mean a lot. the whole structure of the UW and its series of universes etc is all called "hell" where as Elysium is the opposite of what hell is.

It's meant in the sense of the literal physical end of that place, which is made clear by Seiya and Shaka's dialogue above speculating what could be beyond after crossing Hell and reaching its end there, and by Shaka highlighting that fact by pointing out how due it being so, light would never be able to reach there.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It's meant in the sense of the literal physical end of that place, which is made clear by Seiya and Shaka's dialogue above speculating what could be beyond after crossing Hell and reaching its end there, and by Shaka highlighting that fact by pointing out how due it being so, light would never be able to reach there.

Can you prove that "Hell?" Isn't the whole structure of the Underworld?

Also, https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/...magine traveling on,stop, then it is infinite.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It's meant in the sense of the literal physical end of that place, which is made clear by Seiya and Shaka's dialogue above speculating what could be beyond after crossing Hell and reaching its end there, and by Shaka highlighting that fact by pointing out how due it being so, light would never be able to reach there.

well, with that I think you should do a CRT to review the underworld, where it really does not have infinite size, Hades and among other characters will also be downgraded to at least the galaxy

 

[Hasty12345]

well, with that I think you should do a CRT to review the underworld, where it really does not have infinite size, Hades and among other characters will also be downgraded to at least the galaxy

Hades blatantly out-scales the Athena Exclamation which is at least 3-A

 

[AlexZiggy]

You mean the building level explosion technique

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Hades blatantly out-scales the Athena Exclamation which is at least 3-A

that's on a small scale to the Big Bang, and it's not literal at all.

 

[Xxiaa]

All golds do be universal but weaker than Hades somehow

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Can you prove that "Hell?" Isn't the whole structure of the Underworld?

Also, https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/infinity.html#:~:text=Infinity has no end&text=So we imagine traveling on,stop, then it is infinite.

Well it isn't the whole Underworld, because Hades makes a distinction between Hell and Elysion, I mean the latter is literally the story's concept of Heaven. The 2 combined= the Underworld.

 

[AlexZiggy]

that's on a small scale to the Big Bang, and it's not literal at all.

Small scale refers to the fact that it's concentrated on a single point.

 

[Hasty12345]

that's on a small scale to the Big Bang, and it's not literal at all.

Oh please. Now you just sound like a joke.