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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

TheUnshakableOne said:
1.) As ND explains there can only be 1 fully awakened Athena. No this doesn't contradict me as I will explain more below.

2.) Athena chose to reincarnate as a human. She isn't picking vessels or creating vessels. Thus choosing to live amongst them that also means she fractured and sundered her existence to create multiple incarnations BUT they are all still Athena. She is a divine will stretched across the multiverse. Think of it as a hive mind. My cosmology blog will go more into detail about this. This information comes from the Taizen, hypermyth, light novels and the classic series.

3.) There cannot CANNOT be 2 of the same beings in a single timeline. Yet, Tomoe (who isn't even an awakened Athena), Yoshino (again not awakened) existed in the same universe without consequence. Infact Yoshino existed for years alongside Soari Athena. Thus proving my point further THEIR ALL THE SAME ATHENA not separate different ones.

4.) Zeus has literally 5 statements proving he us a singular existence. You can't get any more explicitly than those 5 statements.

5.) The Underworld is literally stated to be connected to the multiverse. Again, VERY EXPLICIT. it's a direct statement. It's not vague, its not hyperbole, it's not any literally device. You can't make any excuse with how DIRECT it is.

6.) Anime is wholly a different timeline in the multiverse, but It still cross scales, but more caution is needed.

So take your headcanon and nonsense somewhere else.

That's all I'm going to say I will not continue this conversation we had hundreds of times. It's disgusting at how much direct statements are ignored for the sake of headcanon arguments that only work if you purposely twist the context.

My blogs will do the explaining for me. But it will take me sometime to create
Click to expand...
What project are u working on currently, and how far along is it
 
StekFence said:
What project are u working on currently, and how far along is it
Click to expand...
Cosmo verse power page is waiting on cosmology blog Which I'm waiting on acfew more GR chapters. The last 2 chapters provided critically important information so I'm waiting for more context
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
1.) As ND explains there can only be 1 fully awakened Athena. No this doesn't contradict me as I will explain more below.
Click to expand...
Each universe has its own Athena, this is explained in each series. In ND it is only explained that the precensia of Athena of the future is interfering with the awakening and the appearance of Athena of the past, because it is altering the timeline, the gods are affected by the changes of time in this franchise.
TheUnshakableOne said:
.) Athena chose to reincarnate as a human. She isn't picking vessels or creating vessels. Thus choosing to live amongst them that also means she fractured and sundered her existence to create multiple incarnations BUT they are all still Athena. She is a divine will stretched across the multiverse. Think of it as a hive mind. My cosmology blog will go more into detail about this.
Click to expand...
The Athena of each universe, or of most universes, is reincarnated in a human, which can be different in the universes, an example are Saori, Cattleya, Yoshino and Tomoe. And these Athens may have different powers or abilities in the universes, for example Cattleya, Yoshino and Tomoe have a power that Saori or any other Athena from another universe does not have. Athena is not a single goddess in the multiverse, there are multiple incarnations of this goddess throughout the multiverse, and each of these Athena is simply a different version of the goddess.

We even saw gods like Eris, Hades, Artemis, etc, use their real bodies in the franchise. Hades uses his real body in the final battle with Athena, where the goddess destroys him and this god disappears forever from his universe, and Eris does not have a real body because it was destroyed in an ancient battle with Athena. Each universe has its own version of these gods, they even have a different personality in the many universes, for example Hades from Saint Seiya and Hades from Dark Wing.

This indicates that your multiversal gods theory makes no sense in the franchise.
TheUnshakableOne said:
3.) There cannot CANNOT be 2 of the same beings in a single timeline. Yet, Tomoe (who isn't even an awakened Athena), Yoshino (again not awakened) existed in the same universe without consequence. Infact Yoshino existed for years alongside Soari Athena. Thus proving my point further THEIR ALL THE SAME ATHENA not separate different ones.
Click to expand...
Wrong, two Athenas can exist in the same place, although this brings problems to the timeline, and this was only because it is the same Athena from the same timeline in Next Dimension. And Tomoe was going to fight Saori if the battle hadn't stopped, and Yoshino only woke up as Athena at the end of the manga, after that we don't know the girl's fate.
TheUnshakableOne said:
4.) Zeus has literally 5 statements proving he us a singular existence. You can't get any more explicitly than those 5 statements.
Click to expand...
Zeus never says that in the manga, and we can even see that this version of Zeus comes from another universe, where the story is different. Also, Kurumada's version of Zeus according to the interviews is not an evil god.
TheUnshakableOne said:
5.) The Underworld is literally stated to be connected to the multiverse. Again, VERY EXPLICIT. it's a direct statement. It's not vague, its not hyperbole, it's not any literally device. You can't make any excuse with how DIRECT it is.
Click to expand...
The Underworld is not connected to anything. Aiolos uses the power of the Black Core (the power of Chronos) to create a gateway between two universes. Furthermore, we could even see that the Underworld was completely destroyed in the main universe with the death of Hades and in the Darkwing universe with Athena's attack. It is clear that each universe has its own version of the Underworld, created by its own version of Hades.
TheUnshakableOne said:
6.) Anime is wholly a different timeline in the multiverse on the Manga. It still cross scales, but more caution is needed.
Click to expand...
All the series in the franchise are in different timelines, the anime is no different from the other spin-offs of this franchise.
TheUnshakableOne said:
So take your headcanon and nonsense somewhere else.

That's all I'm going to say I will not continue this conversation we had hundreds of times. It's disgusting at how much direct statements are ignored for the sake of headcanon arguments that only work if you purposely twist the context.

My blogs will do the explaining for me. But it will take me sometime to create
Click to expand...
The theory of multiversal gods or a great will is just part of your headcanon and a complete nonsense to what is explained in the franchise.

This has been explained a million times and rejected before.
 
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I'm not even going to argue. It's just an infinite loop with neither side yielding at all. There's no point.


Even though everything I said is properly explained in series
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
I'm not even going to argue. It's just an infinite loop with neither side yielding at all. There's no point.

Even though everything I said is properly explained in series
Click to expand...
Yes, because you insist with a nonsense that is never said in the manga, even when it was explained to you several times that you are wrong.

It is not explained in any manga, on the contrary everything I say is explained in the manga, where we can even see different versions of Athena from the other universes. In Assassin you can even see three different Athenas.
TheUnshakableOne said:
She is a divine will stretched across the multiverse. Think of it as a hive mind. My cosmology blog will go more into detail about this.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep insisting on this nonsense that is never mentioned in the original manga, where the concept of the "big will" does not exist in that form. How many times are you going to repeat that Hypermyth is not canon.
 
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Says the guy who said

Zeus is 5-C

Gods don't have mid godly regen

Type 9 immortality gold saints via nirvana

🤣
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Says the guy who said

Zeus is 5-C

Gods don't have mid godly regen

Type 9 immortality gold saints via nirvana
Click to expand...
By feats, but that's not unusual in this franchise, where 90% of the characters don't have feats and everything is powerscaling with other characters of their level that do have feats. In this case Zeus is 2-C by powerscaling and his feats are 5-C (which is not a bad feat considering that many gods in the franchise have even less impressive feats).

Gods don't have that regeneration, you even try to use an exclusive ability of Eris for all gods, when I think we already made it clear that some gods have exclusive abilities that others don't have.

By the description they could get that immortality, as opposed to the gods who have type 9 immortality when they have no justification for immortality of this type.

Says the guy who put a million degree resistance on the Gold Saints page or the destruction of billions of spirits in Assassin by Deathmask (when they simply threw those spirits into the Underworld through the portal they created).
 
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Man, all you guys gonna be hella surprised when I bring out my verse wide revisions 🙈

Both of you are wrong.

And the Hypermyth is canon, but it's conjecture by the Graad foundation so any statements from gods>>>>>>>>>what's in hypermyth, but that doesn't make it all wrong, just like any real life research paper/published article.
 
Hasty12345 said:
And the Hypermyth is canon, but it's conjecture by the Graad foundation so any statements from gods>>>>>>>>>what's in hypermyth, but that doesn't make it all wrong, just like any real life research paper/published article.
Click to expand...
It is not canon and never was canon, the Hypermyth was just a mini story where Kurumada did not participate in any way, even does not appear credited in this story or the magazine. And it is also contradicted in Saintia Sho, where Ares' army is called Phantoms, not Berserkers.
 
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The hypermyth was literally released twice, mentioned in the taizen, used in Giganomechia which was supervised by Kurumada and directly stated canon, but ok bro, love your head canon.

Honestly at this point, I don't even know if you've read the series. You sound like a comicvine Saint Seiya hater.
 
Hasty12345 said:
The hypermyth was literally released twice, mentioned in the taizen, used in Giganomechia which was supervised by Kurumada and directly stated canon, but ok bro, love your head canon.

Honestly at this point, I don't even know if you've read the series. You sound like a comicvine Saint Seiya hater.
Click to expand...
Most of what is described in the Hypermyth is never mentioned in the Taizen, and Gigantomachy was not supervized by Kurumada, that's why it has a lot of mistakes with Kurumada's work (even the one that was published at that time as the original manga), even the author himself said that he didn't write this story to be canon. And Saintia Sho that if it was a work supervized by Kurumada and even says that the author developed the concept of this story, it contradicts the Hypermyth giving Ares a new story and a new army.

On the contrary to you, I have read and watched all the manga and series of this franchise, that's why I know it's wrong. The Hypermyth was never canon in the franchise, and even Kurumada himself and other franchise authors like Kuori contradict that work in their manga.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
author himself said that he didn't write this story to be canon.
Click to expand...
scan.

Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
And Saintia Sho that if it was a work supervized by Kurumada and even says that the author developed the concept of this story, it contradicts the Hypermyth giving Ares a new story and a new army.
Click to expand...
ok? literally 0 relevance. The hypermyth can be freely contradicted and it doesn't change anything, it's a research piece. idk why this basic stuff just seems to hit a brick wall with you. It's even stated by Kurumada that "one day the true hypermyth will be shown" implying he fully intends on contradicting it, but that doesn't change it's canonicity. Like bruh, fr not hard to understand.
 
Hasty12345 said:
scan.

ok? literally 0 relevance. The hypermyth can be freely contradicted and it doesn't change anything, it's a research piece. idk why this basic stuff just seems to hit a brick wall with you. It's even stated by Kurumada that "one day the true hypermyth will be shown" implying he fully intends on contradicting it, but that doesn't change it's canonicity. Like bruh, fr not hard to understand.
Click to expand...
Literally, the author himself names this work as a fake chapter in the Next Dimension Group interview.
Daniela Alba Rose (Chile): ¿Al principio, llegó a pensar en otros dioses como enemigos para la novela?

No llegué a pensarlo. No sé si esta política está bien clara, pero yo escribí la Gigantomachia como un "falso episodio". A pesar de que fue hace más de 10 años, consideré la posibilidad de que la secuela de Saint Seiya fuese realizada, así que evité utilizar a los 12 dioses del Olimpo.

Francesco Capacci (Italia): ¿En qué momento de la historia original se ubica la Gigantomachia? ¿Es después de la Saga del Santuario, Poseidon o Hades?

Debido a que se trata de un "falso capítulo" pienso que pueden haber contradicciones en algunos puntos con la obra original. Lo escribí para que transcurra en "una noche de verano".

Oscar David Caballero Moreno (Colombia): El Cloth de Mei de Coma no pertenece a ningún rango conocido. ¿Por qué utilizó la idea los Cloths de rango desconocido? ¿Sacó la idea del Hypermyth o fue idea de Kurumada?

Debido a que estos escenarios pertenecen a un "falso capítulo", el Cloth de Coma también lo es. No hay razón para incorporarlo a los escenarios de la obra original, al que todos, incluso usted, le dan especial importancia.

---------------------------

It is also named as a fake chapter in the Japanese Wiki description, where they cite an interview with the author, and it is also said that this work was not intended to be added to the "official" established work.
Saint Seiya Gigantomachia

En la Wikipedia japonesa se cita textualmente las palabras del autor de esta novela, Tatsuya Hamasaki, a una revista japonesa llamada Renka-ban Comics, en la que menciona que se trata simplemente de una falsa leyenda, y que no hay intención de añadirla a lo establecido como "oficial".

『聖闘士星矢』のアナザーストーリーを描いたアクション小説。星矢ら原作の主要人物5人も登場するが、実質的な主人公はオリジナルキャラクターの盟である。

「多くの聖闘士は本名を捨てている」「聖衣の総数は88とは限らず、はっきりしていない」などの新解釈が提示されている。時代設定は十二宮編よりも後の夏の夜であると語られているが、著者自身が廉価版コミックスのインタビューで「本作はパラレルというより、偽伝である」「星矢という作品の一つの解釈であり、公式設定に付け加えられるものではない」と明言している。

"Es una novela de acción que describe un 'Another Story' ('Historia alterna') de Saint Seiya. Hacen su aparición también los cinco protagonistas de la obra original, pero el protagonista principal es Mei. Nuevas interpretaciones se presentan, tales como 'no queda claro si el número total de Cloths se limita a 88' o 'muchos Saints abandonaron sus verdaderos nombres'. Transcurre en una noche de verano posterior a la Saga del Santuario, y el mismo autor en una entrevista a Renka-ban Comics declaró: 'Este trabajo más que una obra paralela, sería una falsa leyenda. Es sólo una interpretación de la obra de Saint Seiya, y no hay intención de añadirla a lo establecido como oficial'."

www.ssnextdimension.com

El canon en Saint Seiya

Para comenzar, explicaremos la diferencia entre el canon de una obra y los spin-off. En el contexto de la ficción, el canon de un universo ficticio comprende aquellas novelas, historias, películas, etc. que se consideran "oficiales" y desarrolladas dentro del contexto "real" de la historia, así...
www.ssnextdimension.com www.ssnextdimension.com

This explains why this novel is not included in the timeline of the official website.

Even the Gigantomachy is not mentioned in the franchise timeline published on the official website.
saintseiya-official.com

軌跡｜MUSEUM｜聖闘士星矢

聖闘士星矢の軌跡を紹介するページです。
saintseiya-official.com saintseiya-official.com

Scan or interview where it is said that Hypermyth is canon, and Kurumada worked and wrote this story. There is none of that, because it is a non-canon work for the franchise, and Kurumada didn't write any of that, that's why he contradicts it in his current manga.

Kurumada never says that.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Even the Gigantomachy is not mentioned in the franchise timeline published on the official website.
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean anything, the Taizen doesn't appear either, so I guess it's not canon by your standards.

Guess works not done by Kurumada such as Soul of Gold and Omega can hold more authority over Kurumada's works huh.
 
Hasty12345 said:
That doesn't mean anything, the Taizen doesn't appear either, so I guess it's not canon by your standards.

Guess works not done by Kurumada such as Soul of Gold and Omega can hold more authority over Kurumada's works huh.
Click to expand...
It's a work that doesn't even appear on the official site's timeline, even when other works in the franchise appear on that timeline. This indicates that Kurumada Pro does not even consider these works as part of the franchise. And Taizen is not a story, it is a guide or a databook.

Soul of Gold and Omega are considered as part of the continuity of the anime, because Kurumada did not work on these series, although it is said that he contributed some basic ideas.
 
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
It's a work that doesn't even appear on the official site's timeline, even when other works in the franchise appear on that timeline. This indicates that they are not even considered official works of the franchise. And Taizen is not a story, it is a guide or a databook.

Soul of Gold and Omega are considered as part of the continuity of the anime, because Kurumada did not work on these series, although it is said that he contributed some basic ideas.
Click to expand...
Guess we can conclude from this that Dark Wing cannot be considered canon until it's put on the website huh, especially since the website was updated in Feb of this year and Dark Wing was announced November last year, meaning Kurumada/Saint Seiya has not bothered to make Dark Wing canon yet.
 
Hasty12345 said:
Guess we can conclude from this that Dark Wing cannot be considered canon until it's put on the website huh, especially since the website was updated in Feb of this year and Dark Wing was announced November last year, meaning Kurumada/Saint Seiya has not bothered to make Dark Wing canon yet.
Click to expand...
Dark Wing was released several years after the last update of the information on the official site, unlike Gigantomachy, which was released in 2002 and is not named on the official site. The timeline page and character descriptions have not been updated since the site started. Although the news section of the site does publish news about Dark Wing.

Even on the franchise's 30th anniversary site it does not include these stories.

聖闘士星矢

聖闘士星矢30周年公式サイト
seiya30th.com
And the timeline on the official site and the introduction to the series on the 30th anniversary site are two of the examples used in this Wiki to indicate that it is part of the canon in this franchise.
 
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Seems like a double standard bro, if the site is getting updated as you say and they're not adding Dark Wing to the timeline, guess it's not canon huh.
 
Hasty12345 said:
Seems like a double standard bro, if the site is getting updated as you say and they're not adding Dark Wing to the timeline, guess it's not canon huh.
Click to expand...
It has been years since the Museum's section on the official site has been updated, and as I said the timeline is one of the examples of this Wiki to define what is canon, and in this timeline they didn't name Gigantomachy and those stories as part of the franchise, even when they were published in 1988 and 2002.

The news section of the official site, which is updated regularly, does include Dark Wing news, now I ask where did they include a single mention of Gigantomachy and Hypermyth on the franchise's official site.
Kurumada Pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Head Canon.
 
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
It's been years that the Museum section in the official site is not updated, and as I said the timeline is one of the examples of this Wiki to define what is canon, and in this timeline they didn't name Gigantomachy and those stories as part of the franchise, even when they were published in 1988 and 2002.
Click to expand...
Dude, the website doesn't even advertise Dark Wing, it's not canon. Only works by Kurumada, Okada, Teshirogi and Kuori are canon. Dark Wing is it's own continuity and cannot be used to cross scale to the cosmology of the official mangaverse.

Dark Wing is NOT a timeline or universe apart of the canon mangaverse.
 
Hasty12345 said:
Dude, the website doesn't even advertise Dark Wing, it's not canon. Only works by Kurumada, Okada, Teshirogi and Kuori are canon. Dark Wing is it's own continuity and cannot be used to cross scale to the cosmology of the official mangaverse.

Dark Wing is NOT a timeline or universe apart of the canon mangaverse.
Click to expand...
Dark Wing appears in the news section and is published by Akita Shote, the publisher that has the publishing rights to the franchise.

Why do you only mention Dark Wing, when Requiem is not mentioned in the timeline either. This means that Requiem cannot be used to cross-scale to the cosmology of the official mangaverse.
 
Hasty12345 said:
requiem is a sequel to an already established canon entry in the mangaverse......

Can't believe that had to be explained smh
Click to expand...
Requiem does not appear in the timeline.
saintseiya-official.com

軌跡｜MUSEUM｜聖闘士星矢

聖闘士星矢の軌跡を紹介するページです。
saintseiya-official.com saintseiya-official.com
So, Okada's work for the franchise ended with Assassin, the rest is not part of the multiverse according to the timeline, because it was not included in the timeline.
 
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