Saint Seiya Discussion Thread 3 - The Continuation

[JohnCenaNation]

I'm so happy they added the Seiya x Saori part in the Saint Seiya: Knights of the Zodiac op in Netflix. My OTP ship is selling well!~ƒÿìƒÿìƒÿì

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

The mariners have profiles?

the 7 generals are just below gold saint status going by Seiya's quote, and also each of the Bronze Saints Clothes turned gold and each bronze saint says "Our clothes Approach the level of a gold cloth" or similar

This only indicates that Bian is weaker than the Gold Saint with whom Seiya fought during the Santuary Arc (Aldebaran, Aiolia, Shaka and Saga).

The Bronze Cloth with gold glitter is much weaker than the Gold Cloths, because Julian / Poseidon easily destroys these Bronze Cloths, but the Gold Cloths can withstand various attacks from the god. Even with Athena's blood the Bronze Cloths are weaker than the Gold Cloths.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The Bronze Cloth with gold glitter is much weaker than the Gold Cloths, because Julian / Poseidon easily destroys these Bronze Cloths, but the Gold Cloths can withstand various attacks from the god. Even with Athena's blood the Bronze Cloths are weaker than the Gold Cloths.

Might help scale Thanatos (and Hypnos) who destroyed the Gold Cloths casually then.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

There's also Poseidon saying that his mainstay would still stand even if the universe(Viz mistranslated it as galaxy) was destroyed and Sagittarius Seiya using a Miracle destroyed it. But I'm pretty sure it's already on Seiya's profile iirc

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Might help scale Thanatos (and Hypnos) who destroyed the Gold Cloths casually then.

I wasn't going to mention it yet.... But Thanatos causally destroyed all 6 libra weapons at once along with the libra cloth...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

There's also Poseidon saying that his mainstay would still stand even if the universe(Viz mistranslated it as galaxy) was destroyed and Sagittarius Seiya using a Miracle destroyed it. But I'm pretty sure it's already on Seiya's profile iirc

For right now, the mainstay is a decently high 2-C feat

 

[Leonida85]

I will make a copy-paste of what I wrote in the other Thread:

1: When Kiki was defending himself from the siren in the Poseidon temple (somewhere in the Mediterranean) and Shaina intervenes, the silver Saint carried with her the cloth of Libra and Kiki immediately after appeared at Seiya's side (the north pacific pillar?) ; Is it a speed feat or simple teleportation?

2: Shun after suffering all of Scylla's attacks, he was able not only to tank but invented new techniques to counter the marine.

 

[Leonida85]

I was rereading the fight between Aldebaran and Sorrento, even though the mariner has many haxxes compared to the taurus, I don't think he is so weak compared to the other Gold Saints

Moreover, Kaissa has defeated almost all the bronzes. So one could add that the bronzes, except ikki, are weak to illusions

 

[DragonEmperor23]

You don't need to put that something works on someone without resistance to it on a profile.

 

[Leonida85]

You don't need to put that something works on someone without resistance to it on a profile.

It is probably my mistake, but it seemed that all the bronzes were immune to illusions ....

What I mean is that: just because you have the seventh sense does not mean that you are immune to illusions

 

[DragonEmperor23]

oh okay

It could be that the illusions are so good they even fool the 7th sense

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

where does "resistance to illusion creation" come from???? Also, they didn't have mastery over their 7th sense at that time.

 

[Leonida85]

where does "resistance to illusion creation" come from???? Also, they didn't have mastery over their 7th sense at that time.

I refer to the fact that just because Saga and Shaka are able to immediately recognize the illusions, it does not mean that the other holders of the seventh sense are also immune: as happened to Camus and Shura, Who are veterans of the seventh sense.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Doesn't Saga and co. run in the illusion for a while, then realize who created it?

Also, it could be just they figured it out on their own as well.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yeah they eventually figure it out. they are spatial locked on Buddhas palm similar to what happened to Ikki.

but its also possible that their illusions are just that good. they bypass resistance.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Moreover, Kaissa has defeated almost all the bronzes. So one could add that the bronzes, except ikki, are weak to illusions

Shun has no problems with the illusion. The illusion of Kassa is complex and can even completely imitate a person, for example, it perfectly mimics the Aurora Execution of Camus (that is why Hyoga thinks it is Camus).

I will make a copy-paste of what I wrote in the other Thread: 1: When Kiki was defending himself from the siren in the Poseidon temple (somewhere in the Mediterranean) and Shaina intervenes, the silver Saint carried with her the cloth of Libra and Kiki immediately after appeared at Seiya's side (the north pacific pillar?) ; Is it a speed feat or simple teleportation?

Kiki has super speed. He even traveled with the Bronze Saints to the Temple of Poseidon in the Mediterranean Sea.

Kiki and the Bronze Saints chase Thetis from the Five Peaks of Mount Lu in China to the Temple of Poseidon in the Mediterranean Sea.

• https://imgur.com/a/8D0J2DQ

Doesn't Saga and co. run in the illusion for a while, then realize who created it?
Also, it could be just they figured it out on their own as well.

Saga recognizes the first illusion in the Temple of Cancer and can even destroy it easily, but is affected by the illusion of the Buddha's palm (an illusion that combines with spatial manipulation) and this illusion is so powerful that it even affects Ikki (a Saint with incredible mental powers).

 

[Leonida85]

So as I thought the seventh sense does not render immune to illusions, but this depended on the Saint.

Happy that Kiki is also a speedster, because I have some doubts about a Hades arc event

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

So as I thought the seventh sense does not render immune to illusions, but this depended on the Saint.

No, all saints have some resistance to illusions and mental powers. Even the Black Swan uses illusions, but Hyoga easily defeats him.

In Saintia Sho, Katya recognizes the illusion created by Emony's flowers and destroys the illusion easily. Katya is much weaker than a Gold or Bronze with Seventh Sense in this part of the story.

• https://imgur.com/a/ReogelI

This depends on the power of illusions, because some illusions are so weak that Bronze or Silver can easily overcome them, but some warriors can create illusions so powerful that they can affect characters of the level of a Gold.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

In the manga, the author explains that the Sixth Sense can grant precognition and intuition to human beings, the warriors of the level of a Gold have dominated the Sixth and Seventh Sense.

• https://imgur.com/a/d5us6o7

This indicates that Gold Saints and warriors of this level have precognition and intuition as abilities.

 

[Leonida85]

No, all saints have some resistance to illusions and mental powers. Even the Black Swan uses illusions, but Hyoga easily defeats him.

In Saintia Sho, Katya recognizes the illusion created by Emony's flowers and destroys the illusion easily. Katya is much weaker than a Gold or Bronze with Seventh Sense in this part of the story.

• https://imgur.com/a/ReogelI

This depends on the power of illusions, because some illusions are so weak that Bronze or Silver can easily overcome them, but some warriors can create illusions so powerful that they can affect characters of the level of a Gold.


Sorry, but for all the events that have happened it seems not, the saints in general have no resistance against illusions, but only some have it. As Kaissa demonstrates, the seventh sense has nothing to do with illusions, in his profile it is clearly written that he does not mastered the seventh sense but is perfectly able to replicate the Aurora Execution.

Moreover I would avoid using feat of non-canonical timelines, like Saintia Sho or lost canvas, only what was done by Kurumada is canonical (at least for now we should follow the main timeline: original manga, next dimension, Ep 0, Origins)

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Sorry, but for all the events that have happened it seems not, the saints in general have no resistance against illusions, but only some have it. As Kaissa demonstrates, the seventh sense has nothing to do with illusions, in his profile it is clearly written that he does not mastered the seventh sense but is perfectly able to replicate the Aurora Execution.

Moreover I would avoid using feat of non-canonical timelines, like Saintia Sho or lost canvas, only what was done by Kurumada is canonical (at least for now we should follow the main timeline: original manga, next dimension, Ep 0, Origins)

No, all Saints have resistance to illusions. The illusion of Kassa is powerful, because he is a warrior of the level of a Gold who specializes in illusions. This only indicates that the illusion is powerful. And Kassa has dominated the Seventh Sense like a warrior of the level of a Gold.

And, Saintia Sho is canon, because it is part of the main timeline or main universe, it is even indicated that Kurumada created the Saintias. On the contrary, everything in the franchise is canon, even Lost Canvas, which is just a parallel universe in the multiverse of Saint Seiya.

 

[Leonida85]

Saintia Sho is not canonical, for the simple reason that Origins specifies that the evil side of Saga does not exist, it was a lemur, destroyed by Ker, therefore Eris could not convert anyone to dryad

In Saint Seiya only the experts in illusions use them, and when they take action the saints are victims, with only a few that reveal them. So only some saints can dispel the illusions

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Saintia Sho is not canonical, for the simple reason that Origins specifies that the evil side of Saga does not exist, it was a lemur, destroyed by Ker, therefore Eris could not convert anyone to dryad
In Saint Seiya only the experts in illusions use them, and when they take action the saints are victims, with only a few that reveal them. So only some saints can dispel the illusions

This only indicates that Eris is manipulating the spirit of the true Saga (similar to how she uses the spirit of Deathmask) or rebuild the evil spirit in Saga for use in the fight. Eris is a goddess who can manipulate spirits and can even use a small fragment of a spirit (destroyed or damaged) to create a Dryade.

The Gold Saints were also destroyed in body and soul in the Wailing Wall but a fragment of their cosmos and spirit exists in the world, and even Shaka is in nirvana in Next Dimension.

In Saint Seiya even a warrior of the Black Swan level can use illusions, but Hyoga easily defeats him. All Saints have resistance to illusions, but some are so powerful that it can create illusions so complex and powerful as to affect even other warriors skilled in illusions, a good example is Shaka or Kassa.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Or, maybe she was reviving Lemur, who at that point, people recognize as Evil Saga?

 

[Leonida85]

This only indicates that Eris is manipulating the spirit of the true Saga (similar to how she uses the spirit of Deathmask) or rebuild the evil spirit in Saga for use in the fight. Eris is a goddess who can manipulate spirits and can even use a small fragment of a spirit (destroyed or damaged) to create a Dryade.

The Gold Saints were also destroyed in body and soul in the Wailing Wall but a fragment of their cosmos and spirit exists in the world, and even Shaka is in nirvana in Next Dimension. In Saint Seiya even a warrior of the Black Swan level can use illusions, but Hyoga easily defeats him. All Saints have resistance to illusions, but some are so powerful that it can create illusions so complex and powerful as to affect even other warriors skilled in illusions, a good example is Shaka or Kassa.


Now you are completely inventing things, Deathmask is manipulable because he is a serial killer asshole, but Saga is perhaps the most devoted of saints

 

[Leonida85]

Or, maybe she was reviving Lemur, who at that point, people recognize as Evil Saga?


Unfortunately not because in the Sho it is shown that it is precisely the soul of Saga just risen in the sky to be converted, while in the Origins we see that the lemur literally vanishes at the feet of Ker

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Now you are completely inventing things, Deathmask is manipulable because he is a serial killer asshole, but Saga is perhaps the most devoted of saints

Eris also manipulated the spirit of Katya's sister, who was a good person, this is nothing unusual. And Deathmask is not a serial killer, he is a Saint who does not care about the weak, even this represented in Saintia Sho. In the end he even gets his redemption, this explains why it is good for Hades arc.

 

[Leonida85]

Eris also manipulated the spirit of Katya's sister, who was a good person, this is nothing unusual. And Deathmask is not a serial killer, he is a Saint who does not care about the weak, even this represented in Saintia Sho.

He is a serial killer because he finds pleasure in filling his house with the faces of his victims, and he likes it so much that he decides to take off his name and call himself deathmask


Eris will be powerful but not as powerful as Hades, and Saga has sworn allegiance to only one god.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

He is a serial killer because he finds pleasure in filling his house with the faces of his victims, and he likes it so much that he decides to take off his name and call himself deathmask

Eris will be powerful but not as powerful as Hades, and Saga has sworn allegiance to only one god.

But he is not a serial killer and he killed those people in his missions to protect the world, because he does not care about the weak and prefers to destroy the whole place if necessary. And as I explain, Eris can control the spirits, even those who are good people.

Pandora (she was the person who used the Gold Saints) do not control the Saints through an evil seed, which infects the spirit with discord.

 

[Leonida85]

But he is not a serial killer and he killed those people in his missions to protect the world, because he does not care about the weak and prefers to destroy the whole place if necessary.
Pandora (she was the person who used the Gold Saints) do not control the Saints through an evil seed, which infects the spirit with discord.


Deathmask is not interested in protecting the world, for him all the saints and people could die even if he achieves his goals, not for nothing he was one of the few saints aware of Saga's plans and sacrificing Athena herself. He has a distorted view of justice, so that in the end the Cloth also denies him.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Unfortunately not because in the Sho it is shown that it is precisely the soul of Saga just risen in the sky to be converted, while in the Origins we see that the lemur literally vanishes at the feet of Ker

No, the great spirit that rises to heaven is a group of fragments of spirits that came together to resurrect Eris, a fragment of the spirit of Lemur or the same spirit of Saga could join this group of spirits.

This is the canon, although you don't like this, because Kurumada created the Saintias, the concept of the series and oversees the story.

The main timeline or the main universe is: Saint Seiya, Origin, Zero, Episode G, Saintia Sho, Assassin and Golden Age. The universe of Lost Canvas is also a canon, but it is a different universe in the multiverse, because it is a timeline altered or created by the time travel of Avenir (a Saint of an alternate future where Athena lost the war against Hades).

Or, maybe she was reviving Lemur, who at that point, people recognize as Evil Saga?

This is likely if we consider that Eris can only use a spirit fragment to resurrect it as a dryad. She uses a fragment of Lemur to create this version of Evil Saga.

This only indicates that in this story, Eris manipulates the true spirit of Saga to create his version of Evil Saga or uses a fragment of the spirit of Lemur to revive it in the form of Saga. In any case, this does not affect the history of Saintia Sho.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Deathmask is not interested in protecting the world, for him all the saints and people could die even if he achieves his goals, not for nothing he was one of the few saints aware of Saga's plans and sacrificing Athena herself. He has a distorted view of justice, so that in the end the Cloth also denies him.

Deathmask protects the world, although he believes that the strong must rule over the weak and doesn't mind sacrificing lives to achieve his goal (similar to Aphro).

• https://imgur.com/a/xk3P1so

That is why in Hades Arc, Deathmask, Aphro and Shura fought for Athena to protect the world.

 

[Leonida85]

Deathmask protects the world, although he believes that the strong must rule over the weak and doesn't mind sacrificing lives to achieve his goal (similar to Aphro).

• https://imgur.com/a/xk3P1so

That is why in Hades Arc, Deathmask, Aphro and Shura fought for Athena to protect the world.

Although he seeks "redemption" his true nature, as a bastard assassin, immediately re-emerges in his first confrontation with Mu, for Deathmask does not matter if he has to kill other saints, bronzes or golds (deathmask and Aphrodite use their most powerful attacks against Mu), his nature has not changed he always believes that the end justifies the means, and as a serial killer, it is his pretext to kill everyone in front of him and hang their faces in the living room of his house.

 

[Leonida85]

No, the great spirit that rises to heaven is a group of fragments of spirits that came together to resurrect Eris, a fragment of the spirit of Lemur or the same spirit of Saga could join this group of spirits.

Or, maybe she was reviving Lemur, who at that point, people recognize as Evil Saga?

This is likely if we consider that Eris can only use a spirit fragment to resurrect it as a dryad. She uses a fragment of Lemur to create this version of Evil Saga.

This only indicates that in this story, Eris manipulates the true spirit of Saga to create his version of Evil Saga or uses a fragment of the spirit of Lemur to revive it in the form of Saga. In any case, this does not affect the history of Saintia Sho.

As I told you before, even now, you're speculating.

Facts are facts, yours are just theories.

For now, Saintia Sho cannot be considered canonical. Because the soul of Saga and the Lemur are a big plot hole, not like in the ep.g in which Saga states that the Genromaoken is an exclusive technique of the pope.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Although he seeks "redemption" his true nature, as a bastard assassin, immediately re-emerges in his first confrontation with Mu, for Deathmask does not matter if he has to kill other saints, bronzes or golds (deathmask and Aphrodite use their most powerful attacks against Mu), his nature has not changed he always believes that the end justifies the means, and as a serial killer, it is his pretext to kill everyone in front of him and hang their faces in the living room of his house.

The Saints pretended to fight for Hades, but they were helping Shion in his goals to save the world. Saga also almost killed Mu. Shura also uses his most powerful technique against Mu and Camus attacks him with the Diamond Dust his fastest technique. This does not matter because his goal was always to act as Saints in the service of Hades. Even his spirit appears at the end to help the Gold Saints in the destruction of the wall. And as Aphro explains the goal of the traitorous was to protect the world, although they believed that the strong should rule over the weak.

As I told you before, even now, you're speculating.

Facts are facts, yours are just theories.

For now, Saintia Sho cannot be considered canonical. Because the soul of Saga and the Lemur are a big plot hole, not like in the ep.g in which Saga states that the Genromaoken is an exclusive technique of the pope.

NO, you speculate that it is a mistake, a detail that is not yet explained in Saintia Sho (and that will explain it in the following chapters), because Eris can indicate that she used the spirit of Saga (even speculation that Saga cannot be controlled by the goddess) or a fragment of Lemur to create that version of Saga. This is a detail that the author still does not clarify in the story.

And what concerns Saga and Lemur does not affect the story of Sho, because the origin of the Saga created by Eris is still not explained.

 

[Leonida85]

But Saga, Camus and Shura cried tears of blood; on the other hand, Deathmask and Aphrodite did not care. Deathmask is evil inside, I can say that in the whole franchise he is the only real villain.

There is a really exemplary meme on the internet:

 

[Leonida85]

NO, you speculate that it is a mistake, a detail that is not yet explained in the one in Saintia Sho (and that will explain it in the following chapters), because Eris can indicate that she used the spirit of Saga (even speculation that Saga cannot be controlled by the goddess) or a fragment of Lemur to create that version of Saga. This is a detail that the author still does not clarify in the story.

And as I explained about Saga and Lemur does not affect the story of Sho, because the origin of the Saga created by Eris is still not explained.

Sorry my friend, but these are just speculations on your part

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Deciding what is canon becomes a mess because of the new official website that Kurumada did have involvement in.

And for right now, the wiki regards everything as canon

We'll likely have to create a shit load of new keys and staff because of the dirrence in canons

anyways

Im waiting to make a thread about Poisedion arc revisions because im trying to Througholy go through the chapter to make sure i got everything.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Sorry my friend, but these are just speculations on your part

As I explained, you only speculate something that has not yet been explained in the story. And at the moment Kurumada never indicate that this manga is not a canon, on the contrary it was explained that he supervises the history of the manga, creates the concept of the series and the group of protagonists.

But Saga, Camus and Shura cried tears of blood; on the other hand, Deathmask and Aphrodite did not care. Deathmask is evil inside, I can say that in the whole franchise he is the only real villain. There is a really exemplary meme on the internet:

Shura is the worst of traitors. This indicates that Shion, Deathmask and Aphro probably also cried tears of blood, only that Mu does not notice this detail. All Darks fought with their former companions to deliver the armor to Athena and protect the world.

• https://imgur.com/a/MLdNgGE

The meme does not matter, when in the manga they explain that the goal of the traitors was always to protect the world, although they believed that the strong ruled over the weak and were willing to kill innocent beings to protect the world.

Deathmask, Shura and Aphro can kill tens or hundreds of people, but they protect millions of people with their actions.

 

[Leonida85]

As I explained, you only speculate something that has not yet been explained in the story. And at the moment Kurumada never indicate that this manga is not a canon, on the contrary it was explained that he supervises the history of the manga, creates the concept of the series and the group of protagonists.

But Saga, Camus and Shura cried tears of blood; on the other hand, Deathmask and Aphrodite did not care. Deathmask is evil inside, I can say that in the whole franchise he is the only real villain. There is a really exemplary meme on the internet:

Shura is the worst of traitors. This indicates that Shion, Deathmask and Aphro probably also cried tears of blood, only that Mu does not notice this detail.

The meme does not matter, when in the manga they explain that the goal of the traitors was always to protect the world, although they believed that the strong ruled over the weak and were willing to kill innocent beings to protect the world.

Deathmask, Shura and Aphro can kill tens or hundreds of people but protect hundreds of people with their actions.

If you were right, then Kurumada would have made a public statement in which he says: the Lost Canvas manga is not canonical !!

Instead he simply published the Next Dimension that threw out the LC from the window.

Similarly the Kuru did the Origins.

It is Kurumada who decides what is canonical or not, not you and not me, but only the author

And the TheUpgradeManHaHaxD is right, we're going off topic.

Good Night