- 8,849
- 4,132
Axis made DBS tier 1, the hell are you talking about?
A fancy way to say more axis, because the wiki treats time and his variants like an added dimension
Last edited:
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Sailor Moon! Tier One! The Ultimate Panacea!
- Thread starter Iamunanimousinthat
- Start date
- Status
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,072
- 4,240
DB had enough evidence to prove that there was a second time axis, and that there are characters that affected it.
The space that's being argued for 5D is atemporal. Even if it was an extra spatial dimension, there wouldn't be any higher temporal dimension.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #83
Yall keep coming back to this thing where the world is timeless when there is no evidence to suggest that it is, I repeat:
Time flows, because events happen, and cause and effect are in place
There are no statements that this realm is timeless
Saying that because a realm is beyond time, it must be timeless is an unfounded jump and assumption. Sailor Moon already has an explicitly timeless realm that has a completely different set of physics and time is shown not to work there.
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,072
- 4,240
no it ain't
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #85
Explain why the realm is timeless yet shows a linear flow of events and has normal causality.
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 4,531
- 10,874
Tbh, the entire second temporal axis is just a concept derived from quantum particle-physics… DB timeline seemingly worked like that so, eh… Being stated “beyond time” isn’t explicitly enough.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #87
My argument has nothing to do with a second temporal axis. I am just pointing out that the statement, "beyond time" doesn't necessarily mean the realm is timeless when there is no evidence to suggest that, and time and events are shown to work normally.
(Also Sailor moon has timeless realms and they work differently than what's happening here)
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #88
Bump!
I will also want to add some more supporting evidence for 2-B possibly 2-A! I will add it to the OP as well:
The infinite universe with celestial bodies, where their shadows can be pathways to alternate dimensions. These dimensions can have their own celestial bodies, with their own shadows that lead to alternate dimensions, and so on and so on.
Same thing with the mirrors, from just earth, there are billions of mirrors, . Alternate and parallel dimensions can have their own mirrors, and so on an so on and so on.
I will also want to add some more supporting evidence for 2-B possibly 2-A! I will add it to the OP as well:
The infinite universe with celestial bodies, where their shadows can be pathways to alternate dimensions. These dimensions can have their own celestial bodies, with their own shadows that lead to alternate dimensions, and so on and so on.
Same thing with the mirrors, from just earth, there are billions of mirrors, . Alternate and parallel dimensions can have their own mirrors, and so on an so on and so on.
- 119
- 42
Lol idk why is this being dragged on for too long from all other's and staffs input I want to say is.
First of all what is hyperdimension?
of or relating to space of more than three dimensions.
Also this can be taken as 4D (spacetime) or given context which adds extra spatial dimension which I don't see in that translation neither in the scan.
The op is just ridiculously trying to wank the verse with just the definition of the term without actually giving anything to back up its extra spatial dimension claim
Which will just end in 4D as I said in my reply of this crt.
Also with the corridor getting 6D is just another level of ridiculousness as it is stated in FAQ
"They are assumed to imply superiority of a similar scale.
Of course, the same levels of superiority can also be reached via sufficiently explicit quantitative statements, such as when cardinalities above countably infinite get involved in a manner that implies a corresponding difference in power/size.".
so you have to atleast prove that the difference between corridor and the dimensions.
First of all what is hyperdimension?
of or relating to space of more than three dimensions.
Also this can be taken as 4D (spacetime) or given context which adds extra spatial dimension which I don't see in that translation neither in the scan.
The op is just ridiculously trying to wank the verse with just the definition of the term without actually giving anything to back up its extra spatial dimension claim
Which will just end in 4D as I said in my reply of this crt.
Also with the corridor getting 6D is just another level of ridiculousness as it is stated in FAQ
"They are assumed to imply superiority of a similar scale.
Of course, the same levels of superiority can also be reached via sufficiently explicit quantitative statements, such as when cardinalities above countably infinite get involved in a manner that implies a corresponding difference in power/size.".
so you have to atleast prove that the difference between corridor and the dimensions.
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 4,531
- 10,874
Ngl, I feel bad for the OP.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #91
Hyper dimension means a pertaining to more than 3 dimensions. The novel states the cast moved to a world beyond three dimensions.
How much more blatant can this be?
- 119
- 42
- 119
- 42
Beyond 3D can be 4D as I said in my first reply of this crt. You are taking the definition of the term without actually giving any evidence for extra spatial dimension which what I am asking for
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 4,531
- 10,874
That wasn't funny.1 like = 1 respect for the op
Lol just kidding
TWILIGHT-OP
He/Him- 2,959
- 1,605
Will he get a limited topic ban or smth?
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #96
4 dimensions of space, plus one dimension of time. That's 5D.
I'm not going to accept the bogus argument that the realm is timeless when there is no evidence and we clearly see a flow of events and causality.
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 4,531
- 10,874
No idea.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #98
What do you people even gain from derailing every Sailor Moon thread i make? What satisfaction is here?
- 119
- 42
Bruh where are you getting that extra temporal dimension when 4D is already (spatial + temporal)
As I said your scan lacks extra spatial dimension also going beyond 3D doesn't automatically mean it has 4 spatial dimension
- 119
- 42
It's not derailing
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #101
The regular universe is 3D space plus time. The realm they moved to is beyond 3D space. Time would still be added to it, making it 4D space plus time.
The word hyper dimensional literally means more than more dimensions than 3 SPATIAL dimensions.
- 119
- 42
Omg how many times are you gonna IGNORE THAT YOUR SCAN & TRANSLATION does not have any extra spatial dimension
Also here
"Stating that something is Extra-Dimensional simply means it comes from outside of the regular 3-dimensional space. It does not necessarily mean that it has an extradimensional axis in contrast to 3-dimensional objects, without further context."
"Stating that something transcends space or space and time does not necessarily imply that it has an extradimensional axis or that it pertains to the geometry of the object."
"Beyond 3D" can be taken as spacetime if there's no statements for extra spatial dimension.
"Following this same principle, a 4-dimensional being would be capable of moving through an additional, perpendicular direction incomprehensible to lower-dimensional beings, and this can be generalized unto any higher number of dimensions."
This is mathematical intuition way which obviously your scan doesn't have it either
So stop with the definition solely to wank the verse when you don't have any scan to back up the claim!
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #104
Hyper and Super use the same symbol in Japanese. The other translation translates it as hyperdimension.
We have text literally saying, "going beyond three-dimensional world" "traveling through dimensional space". Sailor Mercury needs time-axis calculations to do the move.
How much more context can be needed other than requiring the work of fiction to spell it out with crayons?
Staff has said repeatedly that we don't need verses to speak verbatim in tiering terms.
If any other verse had a scene where a character used time-axis calculations, to travel through dimensional space to reach a world beyond the three-dimensional world that is called a hyper dimensional or super dimensional space, it would be acceptable.
Sailor Mercury literally uses math to perform this ability.
- 7,887
- 14,932
That's fine, but a realm being called "cho jigen" is not enough in and of itself to conclude it has four spatial dimensions.
Beyond simply means outside of. This doesn't imply an additional spatial dimension.
No it wouldn't.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #106
Good thing, I provided other context. You also ignoring the, "Traveling through dimensional space". The space they entered is still apart of dimensional space.
Can space with more than 3 dimensions be inside a 3D space?
So if the space they traveled to is outside of 3 dimensional space, and but still apart of dimensional space? How many dimensions will it have?
- 7,887
- 14,932
No, not necessarily. It says they "move through dimensional space" to reach it, not that it is also dimensional space. You're assuming that, but the text doesn't support it.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #108
How are you saying I'm assuming when the text doesn't mention the word reach? It doesn't mention that they left the dimensional space. it doesn't mention that the dimensional space is a pathway. It just says move through dimensional space.
"the Sailor Warriors moved through that dimensional space, going to a world beyond this three-dimensional realm"
"The Sailor Senshi move through dimensional space. A world beyond time and space that does not exist in this three-dimensional world."
Let's do some grammatical exercises:
"the warriors move through that jungle, going to Location X" Does not infer that the warriors left the jungle or that Location X is not in the jungle.
"the warrior move through jungle. Location X" Does not infer that the warriors left the jungle or that Location X is not in the jungle. (in fact this one infers that jungle and Location X are the same).
"the tourists move through that city, going to Location X" Does not infer the tourists left the city, or that Location X is not in the city.
"the tourists move through city. Location X" Does not infer the tourists left the city and that Location is not in the city. (again infers that city is location X).
"the worms move through that dirt, going to Location X" Does not infer the worms left the dirt, or that Location X is not in the dirt.
"the worms move through dirt. Location X" Does not infer the worlds left the dirt or that location X is not in the dirt. (again infers that the dirt is Location x )
- 7,887
- 14,932
It also does not infer that Location X is within the jungle, such as:
"The warriors move through the jungle, going to the city."
"The tourists move through the tunnel, going to the skyscrapers."
Whatever it is they are "moving through" is not necessarily a part of, or independent of, the location they are going to. This can't reliably be used to determine the nature of the realm they are going to.
However, there is no preposition in this sentence, so "through" is somewhat interpretive.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #110
Actually yes it can. Here is the sentence:
"the Sailor Warriors moved through that dimensional space, going to a world beyond this three-dimensional realm"
For simplicity sake:
Let A be "that dimensional space"
Let B be "a world"
Let C be "this three dimensional realm.
The sentences uses 'that" for A, and 'this' for C. This means A and C are separate locations. (ex that dog and this dog are two different dogs, That city and this city are two different cities, that person and this person are two different persons etc.)
C is by virtue of being a three dimensional realm is also a dimensional space.
A and C are both separate locations and also are dimensional spaces.
A dimensional space beyond three-dimensional realm must have a different dimensionality than the three-dimensional realm. It can't be 0,1 or two, or the cast couldn't exist in it.
Here are the possibilities:
(B and C are inside A) or (B and C are not inside A)
Conclusion 1: If B and C are inside A, then B is a dimensional space just like C and A.
If B and C are not inside A then,
Conclusion 2: A is a dimensional space that is connecting C, a dimensional space, to B, a dimensional space.
Conclusion 3: A is a dimensional space that is connecting C, a dimensional space to B, a non-dimensional space.
Two out of three logical conclusions say that B is dimensional space.
But it's not done. Because A and C are both dimensional spaces and A and C are also different, A is not part of the three-dimensional realm either.
If Conclusion 1 is correct, then B is a higher dimension than C, because it is beyond the three-dimensional realm. A is also a higher dimensional than both B and C to contain them both.
If Conclusion 2 is correct, then B is higher dimension than C, because it is beyond the three-dimensional realm. A is also higher dimensional than C but there is no way to know if it has higher dimensionality than B.
If Conclusion 3 is correct, then B doesn't have dimensionality and can be disregarded, but A still has dimensionality, and is still not apart of the three-dimensional realm so it must have a different dimensionality than C.
So either way you slice or dice, there is at least a 4 dimensional space involved here.
- 119
- 42
Did bro just ignored the quoted parts....
- 7,887
- 14,932
There's no "that" in the phrase. It is simply "moving [through] dimensional space."
So, no, A and C needn't refer to different things nor are your conclusions sound.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #113
You are wrong. Go check Op, and the link to the staff translator’s translation.
- 119
- 42
I checked and I can confirm there's no "that"
- 307
- 396
Your scan refers to the vortex as the dimensional space. Nowhere does it suggests that the world they went to was dimensional. Even your translation supports it.
here
The moment it was stated they used a vortex to get there, your scan already implied that.. If I was to use a tunnel to go from point A to B, it is common sense to know that I will have to exit the tunnel at some point to enter point B.
Last edited:
- 7,887
- 14,932
I'm not. There isn't a "that" in the sentence. This is something you can confirm yourself.
- 3,493
- 1,360
- Thread starter
- #117
You are being disingenuous. You know aim using the staff translated text which takes precedent over a machine translation.
- 119
- 42
What's bro on?
Heres the translation :
Suddenly, a vortex appeared in the air. Hyperdimensional space, now! The Sailor Senshi move through dimensional space. A world beyond time and space that does not exist in this three-dimensional world. It is surrounded by eerie sounds.
Where is "that" you are talking about
- 307
- 396
There are two translations, deagonx. It does have "that" in it. Translation 1
- 7,887
- 14,932
Okay. I don't really know what you expect me to say here. There literally isn't a "that" in the sentence. He cannot translate a word into existence, and I am not going to pretend it's there when it isn't.
You are free to continue insisting that since a user you asked translated it that way, it must factually be there, but it isn't, so I'm not going to magically agree.
You can check the sentence for yourself if you do not believe me.
No, it doesn't. I didn't miss that translation, that word just isn't present.
- Status
Similar threads
