Sailor Moon Revision Project: Part 2

[Warren_Valion]

Super Dimensional Sphere Emerge (or Hyperspatial Sphere Generate) is the name of the attack. It would be bad faith to not include the name of the attack with context to the feat and claim it doesn't mean anything.

The context of the feat, as given by the wiki page that you linked here, is explicit in that Sailor Mercury created a pocket dimension.

There is no context to support it being Higher Dimensional barring the name of the attack, and attack names are not sufficient evidence for upgrading anything, ever - unless given very explicit context and reasoning as to why. Which you haven't provided.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I was under the assumption this wiki has higher standards than fan wiki's for evidence.

The OP's creator linked the wiki page, the implication being it is a source of information that he considers legitimate.

In the advent of his lack of proper context for the scene, what other sources of information can be used to determine said context? The feat itself is not context, nor are random scans of characters saying dimensions or time.

His entire argument is dependent on the basis that the attack's name is "Super Dimensional" despite the fact that names of abilities aren't sufficient enough proof of upgrading a character in any capacity.

 

[Hasty12345]

hat other sources of information can be used to determine said context?

the manga,.

The fact to propose something, the OP needs an absurd amount of evidence for their claims, however, you a staff member can use fan wiki's and "visuals" as valid arguments against the proposal.

I believe if you wish to debunk the OP's claim, then you should adhere to the same standards you ask of him. that being said,

I would like to retract my support for the additions i agreed to earlier, I now disagree with the changes.

without knowing the kanji, Super dimensional could just mean beyond space time which wouldn't inherently make it higher dimensional manip.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I am not responsible for reading an entire manga to debate a point - I am responsible for looking through the information provided and determining my thoughts based on it.

If the information on the wiki is accurate, then it doesn't matter that it is on a wiki (Get this nonsensical English teacher mindset out of here, Wikis are like 90% accurate, especially when they have citations for their claims) - since the information comes from the source material itself. The fact that the OP's creator linked the wiki as a source, implies that he thinks, at least that page, is accurate enough to be used as supporting evidence in this CRT. And thus, I can use it as evidence that it goes against his proposal in this CRT.

And what? Making assumptions by looking at visuals in a visual medium like manga or anime? How obscene.

And "absurd amount of evidence"? What evidence? Sailor Mercury shouting the name of her attack? The best thing that the creator of this CRT could have done is just link the manga pages from an online source so we could see the context of the scene outright, but since he didn't do that, all we can do is extrapolate information from what he has shown us.

But please don't act like Sagan Standard has been kept here. Needing more evidence than an attack name is not "absurd" in the slightest.

As a person who has created over half a dozen CRTs and gotten them all accepted, I have a solid foundation on how much evidence for a topic is required for it to be accepted. And the amount for this feat that Mercury has done, is just not enough.

I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You'd explain in the description for BFR that she can send people into a higher plane of existence. Sounds pretty straightforward to me if you add the scans to back this up.

Well not higher existence. Just 4d space. How about, BFR (via creating and transporting individuals to higher space dimension)

The context of the feat, as given by the wiki page that you linked here, is explicit in that Sailor Mercury created a pocket dimension.

There is no context to support it being Higher Dimensional barring the name of the attack, and attack names are not sufficient evidence for upgrading anything, ever - unless given very explicit context and reasoning as to why. Which you haven't provided.

The wiki is not primary source and is a fan editted. I linked it to show the other translated name for the attack as well as a gif of how it's interpreted in the anime.

The wiki also claims the attacks chronolocked and dimensionally sealed the place into a subspacce. If we are going to by the wiki description are you going to accept those powers too for Sailor Mercury? Cause I'll sure take it lol

If the attack was called something else, I wouldn't be pushing the Higher Dimensional aspect. I also wouldn't be pushing it if the Sailor Moon verse never confirmed any higher dimensions than 3d space but the verse has shown that they exist.

There is no reason to believe the author did not intend for the name to describe the attack itself. And there is nothing that would contradict the interpretations that Sailor Mercury did create a hypersphere to trap and encase the battle in.

You haven't given any reason why we should not include the name in the context of the attack.

I would like to retract my support for the additions i agreed to earlier, I now disagree with the changes.

without knowing the kanji, Super dimensional could just mean beyond space time which wouldn't inherently make it higher dimensional manip.

Here's the japanese scan

And from the wiki page:

This is the Kanji:

超次元空間現出

And this is the Romaji:

Chō Jigen Kūkan Genshutsu

And this is the English Translation:

Super-Dimension Space Appearance

 

[Hasty12345]

am not responsible for reading an entire manga to debate a point

no, however, you are responsible for adhering to the same standards of proof as everyone else - a fan wiki is not of that standard. 1 or 2 chapters at most should provide context, probably just a few pages tbh.

If the information on the wiki is accurate

"if".

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I even changed my mind due to some of your arguments. However, that doesn't change the fact you or anyone for that matter should be appealing to unreliable websites as proof.

 

[Hasty12345]

You haven't given any reason why we should not include the name in the context of the attack.

It's an association fallacy.

I could punch you and scream "supernova punch" am I star level?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

And "absurd amount of evidence"? What evidence? Sailor Mercury shouting the name of her attack? The best thing that the creator of this CRT could have done is just link the manga pages from an online source so we could see the context of the scene outright, but since he didn't do that, all we can do is extrapolate information from what he has shown us.

??? I did just that. Sailor Mercury was able to bring characters to a higher dimension . Those are back to back.

It's an association fallacy.

I could punch you and scream "supernova punch" am I star level?

No. But if you screamed supernova punch, and what looks like a star is shown to explode, then I would say the name accurately describes the attack. Like how galaxian explosion shows a galaxy exploding in Saint Seiya.

Like the Name suggests a super dimensional space was created. From the imagery we know a dimensional space was created. We aren't arguing if a dimensional space created, we are arguing if the dimensional space was a super dimensional space.

So far there isn't any evidence to say the dimension was not super dimensional. The only argument against it is that we shouldn't trust the name. But there is nothing to say that the name isn't valid.

 

[Hasty12345]

galaxian explosion shows a galaxy exploding in Saint Seiya.

not a good example as galaxies aren't the size of a small room.

ike the Name suggests a super dimensional space was created. From the imagery we know a dimensional space was created. We aren't arguing if a dimensional space created, we are arguing if the dimensional space was a super dimensional space.

so how can you determine the properties of said space from the name alone? It's a huge assumption. Saga's galaxian explosion has been compared to the destruction of a universe and the creation of a universe, so again, not a good example of name implying properties.

If you had a description of the attack, to support the assumption name=properties, that would greatly help your case.

 

[Warren_Valion]

??? I did just that. Sailor Mercury was able to bring characters to a higher dimension . Those are back to back.

This is the dialogue in those scans:

"Relax, Furu-chan. We'll make sure nobody destroys the arcade."

"Luna, I need time-axis calculations! I'm making a shield! I have to do something or else this whole neighborhood will be blown to bits! Super-Dimensional Sphere. Emerge!"


"Heh heh, fight wherever you want - the results will be the same."

"Usagi!"

"I waited a long time for this! Now tell me! Tell me the secret to the Silver Crystal's power!"

What about this proves that Sailor Mercy brought everyone into a higher dimensional space? Literally nothing.

The context that of the feat that I was able to obtain from the wiki page is correct, she is creating a pocket dimension to shield the arcade and surrounding neighborhood because she is worried their fight will result in its destruction.

There is nothing that supports, hints, or even nudges in the direction of this space that she created being higher dimensional whatsoever barring the name of the attack.

---

This argument has gotten circular. I am sorry, dude.

But this is not sufficient enough evidence, names of attacks aren't proof of anything, they mean literally nothing That's not how the wiki treats such statements, and no matter how many times you post the same scans or write the same arguments, is that going to change.

Sailor Mercury should get Pocket Reality Manipulation and nothing more.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

not a good example as galaxies aren't the size of a small room.


so how can you determine the properties of said space from the name alone? It's a huge assumption. Saga's galaxian explosion has been compared to the destruction of a universe and the creation of a universe, so again, not a good example of name implying properties.

If you had a description of the attack, to support the assumption name=properties, that would greatly help your case.

If the name doesn't contradict the visual evidence, and there aren't any information books like that. Sailor Moon isn't a shounen.

This is the dialogue in those scans:

"Relax, Furu-chan. We'll make sure nobody destroys the arcade."

"Luna, I need time-axis calculations! I'm making a shield! I have to do something or else this whole neighborhood will be blown to bits! Super-Dimensional Sphere. Emerge!"


"Heh heh, fight wherever you want - the results will be the same."

"Usagi!"

"I waited a long time for this! Now tell me! Tell me the secret to the Silver Crystal's power!"

What about this proves that Sailor Mercy brought everyone into a higher dimensional space? Literally nothing.

The context that of the feat that I was able to obtain from the wiki page is correct, she is creating a pocket dimension to shield the arcade and surrounding neighborhood because she is worried their fight will result in its destruction.

There is nothing that supports, hints, or even nudges in the direction of this space that she created being higher dimensional whatsoever barring the name of the attack.

---

This argument has gotten circular. I am sorry, dude.

But this is not sufficient enough evidence, names of attacks aren't proof of anything, they mean literally nothing That's not how the wiki treats such statements, and no matter how many times you post the same scans or write the same arguments, is that going to change.

Sailor Mercury should get Pocket Reality Manipulation and nothing more.

The only circular argument here is yours.

The attack being called a super dimensional space + the visuals showing Mercury is creating a dimensional space + confirmation from several other parts of the series that there are more than 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time meaning the attack is possible in the series = more than enough evidence. There is nothing to say the name of the attack is not an accurate description of the attack.

YOU need to provide the burden of proof as to why we cannot believe the dimension, Mercury created is a super dimension. Your only argument is to ignore the name, that's not evidence. You need to provide evidence why we cannot use the name as a description. You need to show that Mercury's name is an inaccurate description of the attack.

You are now using the wiki page. The wiki page also says Sailor Mercury dimensionally sealed and chronolocked the space as well. But you are not including that in your argument. You're just cherry picking what you want from it.

 

[Eganergo]

Not much to say, I agree with Warren.

 

[Hasty12345]

If the name doesn't contradict the visual evidence, and there aren't any information books like that. Sailor Moon isn't a shounen.

if we go back to the supernova punch example,

o. But if you screamed supernova punch, and what looks like a star is shown to explode, then I would say the name accurately describes the attack.

the star could be the size of my fist, and thus only output an insignificant fraction of star level energy and still fit your criteria for star level punch.

Names just aren't a valid determination of properties, as I said, a description would be much much more adequate, it's unfortunate none exits.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

if we go back to the supernova punch example,

the star could be the size of my fist, and thus only output an insignificant fraction of star level energy and still fit your criteria for star level punch.

Names just aren't a valid determination of properties, as I said, a description would be much much more adequate, it's unfortunate none exits.

Okay so show me the visual evidence that proves the dimension isn't a super dimension and is just a pocket dimension. I'll wait.

And


I'm not even arguing that Sailor Mercury should get Higher Dimensional Manipulation anymore, that she can just BFR people to higher dimensional space, which is confirmed in the series to exist.

 

[Hasty12345]

Okay so show me the visual evidence that proves the dimension isn't a super dimension and is just a pocket dimension. I'll wait.

You cannot determine the dimesnionality of an object based on it's visual appearance, so you can't even determine if the visual appearance of the attack even supports your position.

You'd have to provide proof that a 4D space looks as though you're claiming it should look, keep in mind, Sailor Moon is drawn on a 2D surface - hence why visuals aren't valid supporting nor contradicting evidence.

So now yo're only left with the name of the attack and the POSSIBILITY the verse supports what you think it does. From an objective stand point, there is not enough evidence to conclude Mercury has the ability you're proposing or at least were initially proposing.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Like I"m sorry, but this hand-holding when it comes to a series is irritating. Things do not need to be spelled out like ABCs. The visual evidence plus the text should be a good basis. Attack names can be used to garner description of an attack if the name of the attack matches the visuals of the attack.

Again, we aren't arguing that Mercury cannot create a dimension. We are arguing whether the author, who has a masters in science, did not mean to say that Mercury can make a super dimensional space appear when she gave a Sailor mercury an attacked called Super Dimensional Space appear and needed more information to tell the reader that Sailor Mercury made an actual Super dimensional Space appear.

It is a baseless argument? I just don't get it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The only circular argument here is yours.

The attack being called a super dimensional space + the visuals showing Mercury is creating a dimensional space + confirmation from several other parts of the series that there are more than 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time meaning the attack is possible in the series = more than enough evidence. There is nothing to say the name of the attack is not an accurate description of the attack.

YOU need to provide the burden of proof as to why we cannot believe the dimension, Mercury created is a super dimension. Your only argument is to ignore the name, that's not evidence. You need to provide evidence why we cannot use the name as a description. You need to show that Mercury's name is an inaccurate description of the attack.

You are now using the wiki page. The wiki page also says Sailor Mercury dimensionally sealed and chronolocked the space as well. But you are not including that in your argument. You're just cherry picking what you want from it.

Circular arguments are on both parties, if an argument on both sides of a debate doesn't change, it becomes circular. It's not dependent on only one member of the debate.

The attack's name is irrelevant.

Mercury is shown creating a dimensional space, but there is not any indication of how complex that dimensional space is within the scans that your provided - and no, a name isn't proof.

There being higher dimensional spaces in the series does not mean that in the context and connotation of that statement/feat - that Mercury's ability to create a dimensional space somehow applies to her creating a space that possesses higher planes of existence.

No, the Burden of Proof is ALWAYS on the positive claim - you are saying that the feat is 4-D based on the name of the attack, I don't need to prove that it isn't so, you need to prove that it is. There is not a single instance on the wiki that just the name of an attack is viable enough proof of such a claim.

And what? I am not using the wiki page - I ******* quoted verbatim the dialogue in the two scans you showed, how is that just using the wiki that you gave? I said the context of the feat that I got from looking at the wiki is supported from the statements in the dialogue - said context I explained in my previous comment. Not that the wiki page is 100% right, I assumed so previously because you used it in your argument, and it was a fair assumption to make. But my current and previous comment was solely from the contexts of the two scans you provided - so don't get it twisted.


There is an explicit reason that numerous members, both staff and regular alike. here have disagreed with your logic, it is simply incorrect. And because your arguments have been debunked and that debunking of your arguments is supported by other members despite your attempts at rebutting it, it safe to say that you have been outvoted, and this feat has been denied.

Higher Dimensional Manipulation for Sailor Mercury is just not happening.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You made the positive claim that the attack name is irrelevant. You have not ONCE given a good reason why the attack name should be ignored in this context.

The idea that all attack names are ignored is not true. Because a lot of attacks on this wiki get their description from the name and what's shown.

 

[Hasty12345]

Like I"m sorry, but this hand-holding when it comes to a series is irritating. Things do not need to be spelled out like ABCs. The visual evidence plus the text should be a good basis. Attack names can be used to garner description of an attack if the name of the attack matches the visuals of the attack.

Again, we aren't arguing that Mercury cannot create a dimension. We are arguing whether the author, who has a masters in science, did not mean to say that Mercury can make a super dimensional space appear when she gave a Sailor mercury an attacked called Super Dimensional Space appear and needed more information to tell the reader that Sailor Mercury made an actual Super dimensional Space appear.

It is a baseless argument? I just don't get it.

It's not a baseless argument, it's just the base is incredibly fragile and without more supporting evidence, you're just committing an association fallacy.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Hasty mentioned why, it's an association fallacy, and it isn't used on the wiki.

Andriod Saga Vegeta isn't Low 2-C for Big Bang Attack.

Boros isn't High 4-C for Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon

Etc, etc, etc.


There are countless examples of this - names of attacks do not mean anything on their own, you need explicit proof that the name of the attack should = the strength of the attack. And you have not provided any of that.

Your entire argument is based on a name - it is not sufficient.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yall aren't even using the correct fallacy.

The association fallacy has nothing to do with what you're describing. It's called the nominal fallacy. Also calling something a fallacy doesn't make it a fallacy.

Again. You need to prove that the name doesn't accurately describe the attack. You have not done that. You cannot use a fallacy as evidence against my claim that the name is an accurate description.

 

[Hasty12345]

Yall aren't even using the correct fallacy.

The association fallacy has nothing to do with what you're describing. It's called the nominal fallacy. Also calling something a fallacy doesn't make it a fallacy.

Again. You need to prove that the name doesn't accurately describe the attack. You have not done that. You cannot use a fallacy as evidence against my claim that the name is an accurate description.

sure, it's a nominal fallacy, I was under the impression nominal fallacies were a type of association fallacies, that's my bad thank you for correcting me.


and you're right, a fallacy doesn't invalidate your claim at all, that's a fallacy fallacy iirc, however, without the name, you have no evidence, so your argument can be dismissed without evidence.

Hence, we're back to square one and you don't have an argument.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

and you're right, a fallacy doesn't invalidate your claim at all, that's a fallacy fallacy iirc, however, without the name, you have no evidence, so your argument can be dismissed without evidence.

My evidence is the visuals show Mercury created a dimension. My other evidence is showing that the Sailor Moon verse has more than 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time. Because the verse has higher dimensional space, it means that Sailor Mercury can create a higher dimensional space and there is no reason to believe that the dimension she called a Super dimensional space isn't an actual super dimensional space.

You would have to provide evidence to claim that her description of her dimension isn't accurate. Or that higher dimensional space can not be created in Sailor Moon, therefore Mercury could not have created a super dimensional space.

ALSO

It is bad faith to throw out my argument and claim I need another argument without first disproving my argument. Saying names don't count isn't an argument. It's arbitrary and meaningless assumption. What is your evidence that the name is not accurate description of the attack? What is your evidence that the author did not intend Sailor Mercury to be able to create a super dimensional space?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Again. You need to prove that the name doesn't accurately describe the attack. You have not done that. You cannot use a fallacy as evidence against my claim that the name is an accurate description.

No, I don't.

You need to prove why it does - that's the positive claim.

I am using a lack of evidence as evidence that your claim is inaccurate, because it is, and has been voted here on this CRT as such.


Please, drop this pointless debate - and focus on the rest of the contents of this CRT to finish it completely.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No, I don't.

You need to prove why it does - that's the positive claim.

I am using a lack of evidence as evidence that your claim is inaccurate, because it is, and has been voted here on this CRT as such.


Please, drop this pointless debate - and focus on the rest of the contents of this CRT to finish it completely.

My claim is that the author specifically chose the name to describe the attack.

 

[Warren_Valion]

My evidence is the visuals show Mercury created a dimension. My other evidence is showing that the Sailor Moon verse has more than 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time. Because the verse has higher dimensional space, it means that Sailor Mercury can create a higher dimensional space and there is no reason to believe that the dimension she called a Super dimensional space isn't an actual super dimensional space.

The fact that there are statements that the Sailor Moon universe possesses higher dimensions doesn't correlate whatsoever, unless proven otherwise with proper statements in the appropriate context, with Mercury creating a pocket dimension. The word dimension can have numerous different connotations depending on the context, and each scene with the word needs that context evaluated.

These statements have nothing to do with this feat, and if does, you have to prove why. You can't just stitch together random statements from the series and form your own context. That's facetious.

 

[Warren_Valion]

My claim is that the author specifically chose the name to describe the attack.

And that isn't sufficient evidence on its own (as shown with countless examples on this wiki), for one, and two, Death of the Author.

Again, this topic has been voted upon by numerous members and denied.

Drop it, please.

 

[Hasty12345]

My evidence is the visuals show Mercury created a dimension.

how can you determine it was a 4D space on a 2D page?

You would have to provide evidence to claim that her description of her dimension isn't accurate

your evidence commits a logical fallacy which invalidates it as proof for your claim.

Since the name is your only direct proof of your claim, Hitchens razor can be applies to dismiss your argument which has no logically sound evidence.

At best, your position is POSSIBLE, but you cannot prove it IS the case, hence, for an objective power scale, it is improper to assign mercury an ability which you cannot prove she has, over an ability you CAN prove she has via pocket reality manip/BFR.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The arguments here have become heavily circular and it is almost 3 in the morning where I am, I will not respond again.

 

[Antvasima]

Warren has thoroughly evaluated this over and over, and what he has rejected will not be accepted, period. My apologies.

As he said, you should focus on other issues instead of the same circular arguments.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You know what it doesn't matter. I'm done with this thread. I'm not even arguing for Sailor Mercury, just against the idea that attack names can't be counted as evidence at all. And that's not for here right now. I'll save it for later.

Let's tally:

Chibi Usa gets possible Type 1 Acausality.
Sailor Cosmos gets Type 1 Acausality.
Death Phantom gets Type 7 immortality.
Chaos gets Type 5 immortality.

This note will be placed on all profiles:
Note: While the Salor Moon characters are effected by changes to their past, the effect is not instantaneous and won't happen for weeks. Thus, it is not really an effective win method in short battles.

Still being argued:

Type 4 Acausality for the cast

And glassman brought up possible Nonexistent Physiology for Chaos.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine. Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[Warren_Valion]

You know what it doesn't matter. I'm done with this thread. I'm not even arguing for Sailor Mercury, just against the idea that attack names can't be counted as evidence at all. And that's not for here right now. I'll save it for later.

Let's tally:

Chibi Usa gets possible Type 1 Acausality.
Sailor Cosmos gets Type 1 Acausality.
Death Phantom gets Type 7 immortality.
Chaos gets Type 5 immortality.

This note will be placed on all profiles:
Note: While the Salor Moon characters are effected by changes to their past, the effect is not instantaneous and won't happen for weeks. Thus, it is not really an effective win method in short battles.

Still being argued:

Type 4 Acausality for the cast

And glassman brought up possible Nonexistent Physiology for Chaos.

Thank you for dropping the subject.

Now, let's focus on debating Type 4 and finish this thread.


Also, I brought up possible NEP, Glass was just commenting for me. But I am definitely confused as to Chaos' existence.

I thought he was born outside of the Cauldron because of this scan, and that's why I supported Type 5 - since all life and possibilities come from the Cauldron and all things that die return back to the Cauldron. So being outside of it, would mean that he is outside of the cycle of Life and Death, which I think would grant him Type 5, and might possibly make him a non-existent being. But this seems to be a higher-quality and better translation of the scan, and this implies that instead of being outside of Life and Death, it's more that he forced himself into Life, against the will of the Cauldron as he states specifically that he is within the Cauldron.

So I don't know if I still support Type 5 Immortality for Chaos anymore or a possible NEP.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Thank you for dropping the subject.

Now, let's focus on debating Type 4 and finish this thread.


Also, I brought up possible NEP, Glass was just commenting for me. But I am definitely confused as to Chaos' existence.

I thought he was born outside of the Cauldron because of this scan, and that's why I supported Type 5 - since all life and possibilities come from the Cauldron and all things that die return back to the Cauldron. So being outside of it, would mean that he is outside of the cycle of Life and Death, which I think would grant him Type 5, and might possibly make him a non-existent being. But this seems to be a higher-quality and better translation of the scan, and this implies that instead of being outside of Life and Death, it's more that he forced himself into Life, against the will of the Cauldron as he states specifically that he is within the Cauldron.

So I don't know if I still support Type 5 Immortality for Chaos anymore or a possible NEP.

No he wasn't born outside. Chaos is lamenting being stuck inside the Galaxy Cauldron and never getting a chance to be born. If he was Born outside he would become a star, like Sailor Chaos. By being stuck in the Cauldron he is in a state of limbo, neither alive or dead in the conventional sense.

He is not alive like how Sailor Moon, and his incarnations are but exists as something else. He's not dead like Death Phantom or ghosts are in the series as they are souls or leftover feelings of beings whose physical bodies die. In this form he has no body, no soul, no hostia (a form of life energy in sailor moon) and is a pure manifestation of his star seed.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Oh, okay. It seems that I have switched and reversed the nature of the Galaxy Cauldron. Type 5 should be fine then, I think. Although, NEP might be a stretch.

Although, now that I am thinking about it, I don't know about Type 7 for Death Phanthom, because IIRC, Type 7 is only for things like Zombies. People that have died and live on, like souls or in this case Death Phantom as a separated consciousness I don't think it would apply for Type 7. But you would need to more properly discuss this was someone who knows more about this than I.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Warren. I appreciate it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah sure, no problem.

I can try to stretch in Wiki work in my limited free time.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks again.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Oh, okay. It seems that I have switched and reversed the nature of the Galaxy Cauldron. Type 5 should be fine then, I think. Although, NEP might be a stretch.

Although, now that I am thinking about it, I don't know about Type 7 for Death Phanthom, because IIRC, Type 7 is only for things like Zombies. People that have died and live on, like souls or in this case Death Phantom as a separated consciousness I don't think it would apply for Type 7. But you would need to more properly discuss this was someone who knows more about this than I.

I don't really care for NEP so it's no big deal.

There are several ghosts characters with Type 7 from my stroll through the wiki so it's not unheard of.

I want to move into Type 4 Acausality so this thread can come to a conclusion:

My main argument for it is that like the descript for Irregular Causality:

Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality.

Characters in Sailor moon don't follow a regular causality.

Changes in the past rarely have an effect on the future unless it's very serious things.

Like when the cast were erased by Galaxia and their Sailor Crystals (special indestructible star seeds that give people their abilities) were stolen, they appeared unaffected in the future weeks later in later chapters. Sailor Pluto tells Neo Queen Serenity that there are abnormalities in the past. And that history may be changed. And in later chapters they are incapicpated some indefinite time after. Chibi-Usa and Neo Queen Serenity were completely unaffected by these changes. Under normal causality, Chibi-Usa would be effected by father dying and Neo Queen Serenity's life would be drastically changed by her husband and allies dying in the past. But it seems to be only having an effect on their relative present.

The other major change that happened was when Tuxedo Mask fell into the Galaxy Cauldron and that erased his entire future along with Chibi-Usa. This was only time that causality seemed to behave normally. But the reason isn't so normal. The Galaxy Cauldron is not only the source of everything but the starting and ending point of everything. It would seem that it would be impossible for a starseeds or Sailor Crystals to exist somewhere in time and space as well as inside the Galaxy cauldron at the same time.

We see this in several things, for example, Death Phantom was destroyed in the future during the second arc, but in the fifth arc, his star seed is in the Cauldron and Chaos confirms him to be killed by Sailor Moon. While this battle already happened in the future, it had yet to happen in the present. We also see in things when Chaos says the Galaxy Cauldron sends seeds out through both space and time and when Chibi-Usa was regenerated with the Lambda power, the Galaxy Cauldron sent her to be reborn in the future.

Other instances of irregular causality exist all over the manga.

For example, Neo Queen Serenity gives her past self and the cast upgrades to the use in the past. Neo Queen Serenity says that meeting her past self would change history and then decides to meet her past self anyway. She then gives herself her own scepter to fight with in the past.

Sailor Moon asking Neo Queen Serenity for power boosts. Chibi-Usa asking Neo Queen Serenity to give her a way to fight and her giving her an upgrade. Sailor Pluto died in the future and was re-incarnated in the past, making the Sailor Pluto in the past, the future version of the Sailor Pluto in the future. Sailor Pluto had memories of her past life which technically didn't even happen yet. Black Lady was able to attack the cast in the past from the future. Chibi-Usa getting a vision of Luna, Artemis, Diana dying the moment their death occurs in the past. And that was the moment that pushed her to return to the past.

The manga seems to treat the future like it's some distant place rather than a different time period. Time passes in the past and the future simultaneously. Causality seems to be independent on the flow of time, the past and future changing each other through cause and effect instead of just the past changing the future.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump. This never concluded.

To tally what was accepted is:

Chibi Usa gets possible Type 1 Acausality.
Sailor Cosmos gets Type 1 Acausality.
Death Phantom gets Type 7 immortality.
Chaos gets Type 5 immortality.

The only thing left up in the air was the Acausality Type 4 which I made the above post about: