Sailor Moon: Immeasurable speed...?

[Tivanenk]

Okay, I have decided to create this thread because I can't take this anymore. This has been bothering me for so long that I need to get it out of my system. I have read Sailor Moon a year ago or so, and have watched it when I was a kid as well, and I don't remember any feats that would put SM at immeasurable speeds. I have also talked to Sage and he doesn't know of any such feats either. So let's look at the reasons for why these speeds are given. I would like to note that I will be constrasting Sailor Moon to Saint Seiya here because those two manga are shounen and shoujo counterparts of one another, and their mechanics work quite similarly. So let's look at the first of the three reasons I found for making SM immeasurable:

1. Can perceive all of spacetime at once, warps the local spacetime so much that one can travel 900 years without time traveling (Sailor Chaos)

This one is the worst reason so I'll start with this one. This is essentially basic space-time manipulation. Sailor Chaos doesn't transcend space-time at all. It would be like making Gemini Saga or any of the Gemini Saints from Saint Seiya have immeasurable speed because they are master of space-times and can warp space-time so that you can travel hours without really moving any distance. This is not a good reason for immeasurable speed.

2. Lambda Power allows one to transfer information, consciousness, and power across spacetime and defy causality (Sailor Moon)

The profile makes this sound impressive but it really isn't. As someone who actually read the manga, I can sum this up with two words that reveal what this really is: time travel. Yep, that's it. It's only time travel, which has been shown in Sailor Moon universe I admit. However, when has time travel been the reason for making immeasurable speed? Otherwise, nearly any time traveler on VSB would need to have that posted on their profile.

3. Due to the Cosmos Crystal, her Essence is essentially the Essence of the Cosmos, and her power therefore, emanates throughout existence (Sailor Moon)

The final one, but it's not a good reason for immeasurable speed either. Yes, it's true that the so-called Essence in Sailor Moon makes up the existence of the entirety Sailor Moon universe, but that would be like saying Cosmo makes up the entirety of the Saint Seiya universe, and thus any Cosmo user within the Saint Seiya verse has immeasurable speed because he uses a power source that emanates throughout the entirety of existence. Sailor Moon does not - and I will repeat again - does not emanate throughout the entirety of existence herself or any part of her being. She's not omnipresent, nor does she transcend space-time in general. It's true that she can resist some space-time attacks, but again, Saint Seiya also has that as well. All Sailor Moon does is use a power source.

So, in conclusion, Sailor Moon only has immeasurable speed for reasons that don't justify immeasurable speed, and the only reason why people accept it is because they haven't read Sailor Moon and are fooled by the fancy jargon. Sailor Moon has some impressive speed I admit (somewhere in the trillions of c, I believe?), but they do not have anything that is above MFTL+.

 

[Huesito88]

Yes downgrade their speed

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems to make sense.

The Sailor Moon ratings were rewritten by Imperator100, and when we started a thread wherein she could justify the suspicious ratings with better proof, she disappeared, supposedly due to getting married, and nobody knew enough about the series to revise it properly. Hence, the profiles are currently unreliable.

What speed ratings do you suggest instead?

 

[Tivanenk]

I would personally suggest to switch those Immeasurable speed ratings in Sailor Moon profiles to MFTL+ speed ratings because even weaker characters have displayed galactic traveling speed earlier in the series, but nothing more than that.

 

[Victor2]

i agree with this. they don`t have infinite speed. also thier speed would be at Billions not trillions

 

[Tivanenk]

i agree with this. they don`t have infinite speed. also thier speed would be at Billions not trillions

Well, I don't exactly remember the calculations, but yes, they're only at MFTL+ speeds.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you would have to make a list of which profiles that we should temporarily unlock, and then be willing to adjust the ratings.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Hmm indeed, based off the OP it seems quite wrong. MFTL+ seems to fit the series much better. to what degree of MFTL+ though, I dunno.

 

[Tivanenk]

Well, you would have to make a list of which profiles that we should temporarily unlock, and then be willing to adjust the ratings.

I've went through all the profiles and only these two need to be unlocked to fix this:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sailor_Moon_(Character)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos

 

[P.Gyuri]

her biggest speed feat is traveling to the center of the galaxy in an instant, that's it. I think the only characters with inmesurable are sailor moon and chaos.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the profiles. You can tell us here when you are done.

 

[Tivanenk]

Finished.

 

[Antvasima]

It would be much preferable if you wrote some justifications/explanations for the MFTL+ statistics as well.

 

[Tivanenk]

Alright, just a second.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Tivanenk]

Done.

 

[P.Gyuri]

wouldn't "able to keep up with sailor cosmos" be a better description for chaos' speed?

 

[AnimeFanboy2916]

To what extent is she MFTL+?

 

[Tivanenk]

I think this is the highest Sailor Senshi feat that was performed: http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/sailor-moon-speed-calc.14992/

So that would be at least 800 billion FTL.

 

[Antvasima]

Is that feat linked to in any of our profiles?

 

[P.Gyuri]

I don't think so, the only one i saw was chibimoon's feat on her page

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If I unlock Sailor Moon's profile again, can somebody link to the calculation for the appropriate form?

 

[Tivanenk]

IIRC, Stars Arc is for Super Sailor Moon, so I can link that to that profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[P.Gyuri]

Stars is for eternal sailor moon, so whoever links the calc on her page, put it on the eternal tag/key/w.e.

 

[Tivanenk]

Added. Do you want me to add this to Super Chibi Moon as well (since she also performed it)?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[SomebodyData]

Color me skeptic, but perhaps can someone bring up the thread that made them have immeasureable in the first place? I just have doubts that's all.

 

[P.Gyuri]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/327224

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm... strange... we were supposed to have changed the speeds to MFTL+ a long time ago just by glancing at the thread and some of the comments. We must have forgot...

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm not following your points? The first two aren't specifically about speed but are explainantions of powers and ability.

1. That's from Death Phantom, who can warp all of spacetime, was creating time storms across in the timezone (the area that the time door is outside of spacetime), and was distorting and ripping apart spacetime at will. He also manipulatted spacetime so terribly that the center of nemesis was the end of the time, a location outside of universe in the timezone. He used his power to travel through space and time without needing to go through the time door. Sailor Moon was able to stop and reverse his ability to warp spacetime. He knows whenever someone travels through time or space and can track them. That's not basic time-space manipualtion. It's nothing like Gemini's time dilation ablility. It's about fusing two points of time together. It even extends to fusing a place in space and time with another place that exists outside time and space al together. (also just to add Sailor Lethe has this similar ability of fusing two points in space togther). Since when did basic timespace manipulation was having the abliity to put 1961 new york city, inside a someone's basement? That's high-end.


2. This comes from Tuxedo Kamen, King Endymion and Neo Queen Serenity. King Endymion sent information from the future to Tuxedo Kamen in the past. Neo Queen Serenity channeled herself to her past self. Also Sailor Moon can summon power from Neo Queen Serenity from the future. It's not time travel. Another thing, Sailor Moon has the power to negate time and space and can send her power to anywhere in space and time. And upon learning that ability she disrupted all of space time with her power. So yes, her power does trancend time and space and has already did so since the second arc.


3. The cosmos crystal controls the entire universe. It controsl the Galaxy Cauldron and therefore every thing in the unvierse. It's not like cosmos form Saint Seiya. It's essentially control of creation. It can be used to reset the universe, and create and send star seeds anywhere across time and space. Chaos was warping the far reaches of space time and Eternal Sailor Moon used the power of the Cosmos crystal to undo the damage of Chaos and rebirth the galaxy.

 

[Tivanenk]

If you're not following my points when I clearly present them even in the title, there's probably something in your head.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Nevermind. I understand now, while these abilities allow her to have quite the versitility and haxes they don't explain having her actual physical speed as immeasurable.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

If you're not following my points when I clearly present them even in the title, there's probably something in your head.

There's no need to be rude. Your first two points, are talking about abilities that aren't speed related.

 

[Tivanenk]

If you're not following my points when I clearly present them even in the title, there's probably something in your head.

There's no need to be rude. Your first two points, are talking about abilities that aren't speed related.

I quite clearly point out that those were reasons written in the speed sections of the profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, since this topic has been solved, I will close the thread.