Saber(Fate/Stay Night) VS Misaka Mikoto(To Aru)

[Zhaoshuais]

Saber starts at standard condition,Master is Shirou and Avalon is not connected.Misaka Mikoto start with no weapon exclude coins.(not lv6 form of course) Battlefield is an iron bridge,appeared in FSN,which allow Mikoto to have enouch iron bars,iron sand and water to manipulate. As in To Aru,magic and esper are considered different,although both can be IBed,so neglect Saber's magic resistance. Brunhild is still considered overpowerful for Saber,so I have no choose.Mikoto may only slightly weaker than Brunhild.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Does Saber know her MRes is disabled?

Saber's Durability is still City level (a bit higher if this is UBW Shirou) with her armor disregarding her MRes so it all depends on whether or not she knows of her disadvantage.

She knows; She probably shoots Excaliblast and calls it a day after tanking a bolt or two.

She doesn't; She gets slashed by Iron Sand.

 

[LazyHunter]

Mikoto is a lot weaker than Brunhild. And about this match, Mikoto's a slow glass cannon that cannot even harm Saber, so this is clearly a stomp.

I'm curious Zhaoshuais, what has brought all these Saber vs X Toaru character matches? You keep lowering the bar, but you clearly skipped an inverse tier since you jumped from Gungnir!Brunhild to regular Mikoto.

 

[LordAizenSama]

So it's gone Accelerator, Acqua, Brunhild and now... Misaka ;\ and it's a stomp... again.

Maybe try Gunha..

 

[LazyHunter]

Funny, Brunhild was only a stomp because the version used was the one with Gungnir. Base Brunhild would be Mountain level and lack the powers Gungnir gives her, which would make it a fair fight.

 

[LordAizenSama]

It would put their AP on similiar terms, though Sabers dura is only city and speed would need equalising

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

A lot of these people would make great opponents for Mewtwo if you're trying to do a To Aru non-stomp match.

 

[ZERO7772]

So it's gone Accelerator, Acqua, Brunhild and now... Misaka ;\ and it's a stomp... again.
Maybe try Gunha..

Gunha >>> misaka

 

[Zhaoshuais]

Standard Brunhild can not defeat Misaka Mikoto,and Mikoto also has some enhanced versions,including lbs and AAA.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

Base Brunhild VS Base Misaka Mikoto happened in To Aru´╝îthe result is draw,both side can not defeat each other before Touma defeat Birdway and end the battle.So if base Brunhild is fair,so does Mikoto.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

So it's gone Accelerator, Acqua, Brunhild and now... Misaka ;\ and it's a stomp... again.

Maybe try Gunha..

Gunha > Kaori ,Base Brunhild almost = Base Mikoto. I attempted hard to find someone between them and suitable,but failed.

 

[LazyHunter]

I'm going to repeat what I said when you made the Touma vs Morrigan match: You overestimate certain characters. In most Kamachi's series the conflicts are not always decided solely through raw power. Smarts, equipment, allies, personality traits, power interactions, environment... There's a lot of factors that can play into a fight in Toaru, so looking at the results and assuming that's the usual outcome of a fight between two characters is one of the worst things you can make in Index, unless the gap between the two characters is wide enough. Hamazura beat Mugino due to a number of circumstances, and the same can be said for several of Touma's victories and some of Mikoto's.

Mugino is still able to easily kill Hamazura if they were to have a fight the way versus matches work in this site, since she would keep a cooler head due to not being at her wit's end like in the novel after Kakine kicked her ass and Frenda betrayed her; and Hamazura would lack the environment of their first fight and the small handgun he used to win.

Fiamma would likely easily kill Touma, since he wouldn't have a super plan and more important things to take care of that would make him put off killing Touma until it was too late to do so.

Brunhild would easily kill Mikoto, since both of them being decent human beings that would prefer to not kill each other and thus hold back would not play a part in the fight. Mikoto would also lack the iron sand prep that she used to survive the fight. It's very obvious if you know anything about Saints and have seen Brunhild's physical strength that the only thing she needed to do to win was drop her claymore and use regular punches and kicks, which would completely obliterate Mikoto at full strength.

I think I'm going to add a general tier list in the verse page with a few notes so that the differences in power are clearer.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

I should mention that even the lv4 Misaka Worst can move at almost 1 mach.

And touch Misaka Mikoto with regular punches means being struck by 1 billion volta's electricity,only Touma can do this without being killed at once.

 

[LazyHunter]

Worst's burst doesn't have a set speed, and is likely not that high. Not that it matters since Mikoto using that technique is just a possibility and she has never used it so far. Mikoto rarely conducts electricity through her body like that. And it means little to do so when we've seen Brunhild can tank her electricity just fine and Mikoto will die from a single punch.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

Between Misaka and saints… Leivinia Birdway seems to be okay,but Saber can defeat her easily with magic resistance. Then Leivinia Birdway VS Archer?

 

[ZERO7772]

So it's gone Accelerator, Acqua, Brunhild and now... Misaka ;\ and it's a stomp... again.

Maybe try Gunha..

Gunha > Kaori ,Base Brunhild almost = Base Mikoto. I attempted hard to find someone between them and suitable,but failed.

lol that was Brunhild relying only on her saint power without using any spell , mikoto can't keep with any saint they are far above her

 

[Makina_Yuki]

So burunhild didnt fight seriously against misaka? Well brunhild almost slashed misaka with her sword but misaka can hold it via her magnetism. Also if I remember correctly the novel stated that silvia will help brunhild if she can defeat thor, which means brunhild had trouble against misaka. Maybe actually misaka is in same league with brunhild because if she cant manage brunhild power, their fight will be like touma vs kanzaki or acqua vs amakusas.

 

[LazyHunter]

@Makina Yuki

As I mentioned two post ago, you are mostly looking at the results and overlooking the circumstances that caused the fight to go a certain way. Let's see:

1) Mikoto isn't faster than regular Toaru humans, just like Touma who regularly gets stomped by Saints; and she should be slower than Amakusa members who can boost their speed with magic and move so fast they create afterimages that are confused with illusions (Tatemiya). Mikoto's reactions alone will not be enough to avoid a stomp, as shown by Touma's fights with Saints, especially his encounter with Kaori in NT10: It matters little if you react to a much faster opponent when to that opponent you move in slow motion and thus are easy to counter and dodge.

2) Mikoto managed to track and slow down Brunhild using iron sand she had prepped to cover the ground and magnetism to hold her sword back. Brunhild dropping the sword takes away that second advantage.

3) Brunhild is hilariously above Mikoto in physical stats. When a Saint curbstomps Touma, the Amakusas or minor magicians, they aren't even trying. Brunhild can bend a tanker in two with a punch and liquify an artificial Valkyrie (Someone who's far above a normal human) with a kick when she's serious. Those are regular physical blows that Mikoto can't slow down with magnetism. Mikoto will die in a single blow if Brunhild drops her claymore and goes for fisticuffs.

4) There's still Brunhild's rune magic. Like other Saints, she rarely uses offensive spells due to her physical stats being enough for 90% of her opponents, but she's said to be capable of using all runes in Norse magic, so she should have backup spells of she needs them.

I think it's obvious which of the two would win in a regular VS match, since that's not an in-universe fight that has a series of circumstances related to the current plot. As for the comment about Silvia helping her; most Toaru characters are not morons, and ganging up on an enemy to finish them off quicker is a pretty valid tactic. The only one who might not do that is Gunha, and even he will fight with others if the situations is serious enough.

 

[ZERO7772]

This is the same with Mikoto vs Gunha when people though they were equal because they call their fight a draw lol brunhild didn't use any spell or magic at all from what i remember and you call it fight ?

 

[LazyHunter]

I assume those are people who haven't actually read the novels and go by what they have read in the wiki. It happens a lot with Touma and Hamazura's fights (Can you believe some people say that Hamazura defeated Mugino three times?) Gunha vs Mikoto is a funny one since they were explicitely having a contest of offensive power vs defensive power; so Gunha was just standing there without moving and tanking all of Mikoto's attacks. And while Gunha admitted that he might have lost if the contest had gone on, Mikoto thought that she would have probably lost if Gunha had retaliated and fought normally.

 

[ZERO7772]

lol then hamazura > mugino

Gunha vs Misaka was literally joke Gunah was standing there taking hit from mikoto challenging her if she can knock him down , dude didn't even fought back and they call it draw and people go by the result , just go and read the railgun manga to see how much gap between them it's not even close

Going by the result is the worst thing you can do with toaru , this isn't dragon ball\saint seiya

anyway saber stomp misaka

 

[Andykhang]

^Agree with above, Saber have more experience fighting than Mikoto, and her Excaliblast would blow Mikoto away along with the entire district.

AAA Mikoto though...

 

[LazyHunter]

AAA Mikoto wouldn't change anything. So far Mikoto lacks the knowledge on magic to use it the way Noukan used it, so it's just a big collection of guns that lets her fly. Still useful and a general upgrade, but not nearly enough to close the gap between them.

 

[Andykhang]

^True that, more over Mikoto is receiving damage to her neural system due to that magic, so she would last even less longer, though it's like "the candle burn the brightest when it run short" thing.

Edit: The collection of gun sure is going to make Saber fight more difficult though, though it's not "Gate of Babylon" level that Saber have faced before.

 

[LazyHunter]

I just remembered something, aren't Servants immune to conventional weaponry, much like supernatural creatures and Materials from Kamachi's series Zashiki Warashi and Blood Sign? Mikoto's AAA would have no effect on Saber.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

I see.Then the only choose is Leivinia Birdway,close to a saint,may only slightly weaker,and has enough apperance. She can draw against Kaori,but lose to Touma in various condition without a win,even with faster speed and reflect. But considering most of her damage is caused by magic,Saber can defeat her easily with magic resistance.

 

[ZERO7772]

Birdway will also be stomp xD

 

[Zhaoshuais]

You mean Birdway VS Saber? Saber's magic resistance can block most of Birdway's attack,that's the problem.So I choose Archer.

 

[Dpool570]

My votes on Saiba!XD

 

[Zhaoshuais]

I just remembered something, aren't Servants immune to conventional weaponry, much like supernatural creatures and Materials from Kamachi's series Zashiki Warashi and Blood Sign? Mikoto's AAA would have no effect on Saber.

AAA is created by Aleister Crowley to deal with Magic Gods,so it would have effect on Servents,of course.

 

[Andykhang]

^It's still in it "conventional" form, unlike how that golden retriever would have use (the image of the badass doggy smoking a cigar still linger within me...), so more likely than not it's not gonna work, if the fact is true.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Is AAA even conventional weaponry? I thought conventional weaponry were things like M16's and other typical military equipment.

 

[Andykhang]

^Well, it's conventional in a sense that it's pure science, i guess? First time I learn of these thing as well.

 

[Gemmysaur]

There's the problem with their immunity to conventional weaponry.

Why are they immune? Because they're that durable? Because conceptual crap?

What qualifies as conventional weaponry? Typical military-grade weapons? Any weapon that is man-made? Just because it's science?

Up to what extent is their immunity to it? Small arms? High-caliber weapons? Nuclear deterrents?

Who even said that the servants are immune to conventional weaponry?

It looks to me like NLF so I'd prefer that we not use that argument, but that's just me.

 

[Andykhang]

^In the wiki, they said the spiritual form would not be affected by physical interference, so maybe this is where it come from?

 

[LazyHunter]

It's listed on a few Servant pages here, and the wiki also explains that Servants cannot be harmed by regular humans or modrn weapons, apparently coming from the original VN:

As spiritual beings and divine mysteries, Servants cannot be harmed by normal means and are still considered spirits even in physical form, so they cannot be physically harmed by regular humans or modern weaponry.They can only be harmed by attacks accompanied by magical energy, so they can ignore even debris in battle unless it should become contaminated by an enemy's magical energy. Only Servants can normally harm other Servants physically, so even a paper knife could be used to harm a Servant should another Servant wield it.

As I understand it conventional weaponry would be all weapons (regular swords, guns, explosives, etc) that are not supernatural and that work through science (be it real world science or scifi science).

Mikoto doesn't know how to use the suit proper, so all the different guns, blades, missiles and stuff are conventional weapons when she uses them. Even if we considered them supernatural, the only weapon strong enough to be a threat to Saber would be the huge drill, which Mikoto would have to call down.

 

[Andykhang]

"MY DRILL WOULD PIERCE THE HEAVEN!!!" is the first thing I think of when you're saying that. And it fit so well...

 

[Gemmysaur]

The Anti-Art Attachment (Õ»¥Ú¡öÞíôÕ╝ÅÚºåÕïòÚĺÒéóÒâ│ÒâüÒéóÒâ╝ÒâêÒéóÒé┐ÒââÒâüÒâíÒâ│Òâê Tai Majutsu-shiki Kudō Yoroi (Anchi ─Çto Atatchimento), lit. "Anti-Magic-Type Powered Suit"), A.A.A.for short, is a Powered Suit developed in Academy City and used by Kihara Nouka. As the name suggests, it is for use against magic, though despite that, the suit has a connection with magic, specifically that of Aleister Crowley.

The Anti-Art Attachment's primary function is more an application of medical technology than military technology. A form of external cyborg attachment, it forms a link between the user and another individual, allowing the user to remotely draw on their power. Noukan makes use of this connection to utilize Aleister Crowley's power and secret techniques, a use requiring an understanding of the world a step outside science. Noukan has been described as not just borrowing Aleister's power, acting similar to an elite soldier infiltrating enemy lines to lock onto an airstrike target with a laser sight. Using this connection, Noukan has been able to create a circular territory which displaces water from his vicinity, and deliver Aleister's willpower in a strange form which can kill Magic Gods, ones whom Aleister truly hates.

 

[Reppuzan]

@LazyHunter

I'm not an expert on the Nasuverse, but I think I can give a brief explanation.

Servants possess something called a Spiritual Body, as they're copies of the original hero made of mana. Due to the nature of their existence, anything without a sufficient level of "mystery" (effectively how much magical power it has, but it's usually quantified by how old/ancient/supernatural it is) simply passes through them. Not even a nuke would work since it is a relatively recent invention. However, sufficiently powerful magic-enhanced blows would work since they do have mystery.

That said, Saber is the exception since she is not a true Heroic Spirit since she was summoned from the point of her death to the modern era through her wish on the original Holy Grail.

That said, I'm not 100% sure if a Railgun would work or not since Espers have never interacted with Servants in the Nasuverse. Nevertheless, it's too weak to put a dent in her City level Durability.

 

[LazyHunter]

@Reppuzan

Kamachi can't decide on Mikoto's Railgun counting as supernatural or not, since he's had Touma's IB block it and Yukari being unharmed by it, which are mutually exclusive. Yukari is the most recent occasion, so I'd pick that it doesn't count as supernatural. Not that it would change this stomp if it counted as supernatural.