Ryu VS. Jin 2: Electric Boogaloo (GRACE!)

[ZephyrosOmega]

Because SF revisions makes this viable. Ryu starts in base but can activate Evil Ryu/PON if he needs it, and Jin is in Devil Form. Speed is Equalized.

Ryu: 7

Jin: 1

Jyu (incon):

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Normally I give this to Ryu.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Normally I give this to Ryu.

normally?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I probably phrased that wrong. Ryu wins a majority of the time imo.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

ah. reasons?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

He's just...stronger. Like, that's all that really matters here. Both have pretty much the same skill and techniques. Only thing Jin really has over him is flight.

 

[X_Squared]

Both Jin and Ryu seem to be pretty much even in their base forms. However, the same can't really be said for when they transform (which is the case). Based on their profiles...

Ryu has the slight AP advantage overall, has teleportation, mostly has better range (except for when Jin busts out those lasers), and seems to have a lot more techniques going for him than Jin.

Jin's advantages seem to be his flight, lasers and telekinesis (though I don't know how he uses it, either for offence, defense, etc.).

The real game-changer though is if Ryu is able to catch Jin and end him with the Raging Demon to destroy his soul (since Jin is just vengeful and has done some sinful things iirc) and the Power of Nothingness grants him more power than before as well as some invulnerability.

Therefore, I vote Ryu.

 

[TypeVampire]

He seems to have further control of his power nowadays, and that coupled with him singlehandedly defeating Bison, I vote Ryu as well.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Ryu FRA

 

[Not_Icarus]

Bump

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Jin's advantages seem to be his flight, lasers and telekinesis (though I don't know how he uses it, either for offence, defense, etc.).

He's used it for both offense and defense. He's used it to blow up a motorcycle, basically force choke people and I'll even presume that it is where his force field ability comes from, given that telekinesis can be used for such things.

 

[DMUA]

Jin wins via a non canonical High 6-A feat ovo

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Jin wins via being better character ovo...

That said, Ryu would take it just from the fact that he's stronger and has the potential to end it with the Raging Demon. Sadly, Jin doesn't have a real trump card to pull in this.

Generic Karate boi FTW.

 

[Not_Icarus]

5-0 right now

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This again...we have been over this...Jin beats Ryu,teleportation doesnt mean anything when Jin faced characters that have that,like True Ogre and Jinpachi,plus in tekken 7 Kazuya seems to have that too with his devil form

Raging demon isnt a factor,Heihachi survived Akuma raging demon in tekken 7 simply by sheer durability there,not to mention in tekken 4 Kazuya tried to get the soul out of Jin and failed,plus the raging demon can be avoided easily,Jin can just fly away or use telekinesis on him to push him away

Jin can control his powers and did it before Ryu,the win over Bison isnt impressive,he was cut out from the black moon and Nash weakened him when absorbing his energy,then Ryu came and beat him with the mu no ken,which has barely anything worthy really

Jin defeated more experienced fighters then Ryu,has forcefields,Regenerationn and lasers that Ryu aint gonna dodge given they are sub relativistic and can take Ryu powers if he wanted,it gets boring at this point this match up,Ryu wont win against Jin ever

 

[Not_Icarus]

Speed's Equalized and Ryu is still stronger.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Why did Ryu get downgraded from High 7-A anyways? Didn't he beat Akuma once?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

he never beat Akuma ever in his life,only time he did was in SF2 and Akuma was just testing Ryu,Evil Ryu is non canon,he never transformed ever and power of nothingness Ryu was beat by Akuma in SF5 and Akuma didnt even considered him anywhere close to his level

 

[BlackDarkness679]

since when the lasers gotta be equalized in speed?also based on what is Ryu stronger?Jin by far shown far better feats,even lifting strenght

 

[BlackDarkness679]

this match was done already,nothing changed ever since,Jin still owns Ryu

 

[Not_Icarus]

He has 2 At Least 7-B, Likely Far Higher keys and he's naturally a 7-B. Jin's a low 7-B at base and is only a 7-B in his devil form. Also Speed Equalized literally means Speed Equalized regardless if it's the character himself doing the action or not.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Also, Tekken Akuma =/ Street Fighter Akuma.

 

[The_Calaca]

So... what's the AP difference here?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Having two 7-B keys means nothing,how much stronger they are compared to base Ryu isnt given or known in the series ,one of the keys has barely any feats or anything worthy,only thing is that its stronger then his base form,no indication how much of an increase,the other is a what if non canon character,as he never transformed into that ever anywhere and only feats it has are from non canon stuff,stronger then base form,but again no indication by how much,so doesnt assume the AP is that huge

Jin is far stronger then low 7-B in base then the wiki gives it to him and even then,Ryu has only ki stuff mainly and a soul attack move that he never used it on anyone and irs easily avoidable,meanwhile Jin has lasers,forcefields,flight,telekinesis to choke and explode,Regenerationn,shockwaves and ability to take Ryu powers to his own

Where it says his lasers gotta be equalized as well?Also Heihachi on his profile has soul resistance if you didnt bother to check and from Akuma raging demon, Heihachi survived it only by sheer durability,besides that tekken 4 has Kazuya trying to take his soul out of him and failed

And give me a break from the old argument of Tekken Akuma=/=Street Fighter Akuma,there is no difference between them or change in his character at all,in both series they are fighters with a code of honor that wants to fight strong opponents

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You given no good reason why Ryu wins,Jin has him beat,check the last thread they had,it was agreed Jin wins by a mile there given everything said

 

[X_Squared]

Street Fighter Akuma and Tekken Akuma are different though in terms of power and feats. I mean come on, that's like saying Kirby from Super Smash Bros. is the same exact Kirby from the game series which isn't the case at all as they've displayed different levels of power from each other. Just because they exhibit the same character traits doesn't mean that they're the same at all, period.

That being said, while Heihachi resisted a much weaker form of the Raging Demon from an alternate Akuma, how does that relate to Jin exactly? He has no resistance to soul manipulation whatsoever. Also, yes, if speed is equalized then attack spead is also equalized meaning that Ryu would be able to avoid Jin's lasers in this case. Jin's flight is useful, but Ryu has more than enough projectiles to throw at him from the ground so he's not at a complete disadvantage here, but shockwaves are handy at keeping Ryu at bay. Jin's teleportation isn't all too useful either since Ryu has gone up against characters such as Dhalsim and M. Bison with the same ability. Also, when has Jin ever copied an opponents abilities? That's news to me. Besides, Ryu does seem to have the AP advantage at base and Jin's reasoning for 7-B is also weird as well since he seems to scale from one character who caused a "geologically impossible event" - whatever that means.

Ryu also seems to be the better martial artist (at least from what I can see from their profiles) since he has several techniques which would leave Jin utterly stunned for a few moments regardless if he blocks, leaving him open for combos and attacks while he has defensive ones where he can counter Jin's barrage of attacks and follow up with his own (since it seems all of his techniques are really used for offense). This goes along with the fact that Jin just charges right towards his opponent which would just play into Ryu's hands as he'll just block whatever Jin's doing and either stun him or counter his moves and fight back accordingly. That is until Devil Jin, however, where both will then be even in terms of power. However, Ryu could just turn into Evil Ryu (which is canon btw) and continue to fight back and end the fight with the Raging Demon (if he could land it, though that's highly unlikely considering Jin's forcefields and flight).

The real trump card imo is the Power of Nothingness which boosts up Ryu's power overall, grants him nigh-invincibility and allows him to seal off evil power which could outright end the fight right there (a shame PoN isn't really fleshed out on Ryu's profile however). Though I will say that Jin's Regenerationn, forcefields and telekinesis are very good points for him. However, is it in Jin's character to outright use his telekinesis to choke foes or explode stuff or does he use it in dire situations? I'm not too sure about that. But, overall, I personally see Ryu winning this.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ok first of all,your example with Kirby isnt the same thing,smash bros is a crossover game mostly between nintendo characters,tekken 7 isnt a crossover and its canonical game,in which Akuma is canon,Harada abd Ono,the heads if both tekken and street fighter are best friends,they could have thrown any other street fighter character in the game especially against the strongest people in tekken,someone else brought this thing before about the subject,the creators having their characters being even or comparable as such,plus another thing to add,there us no point in showcasing feats already by Akuma in tekken again,its not an entirely new character or different,so likely its suppose to be comparable to the sf counterpart

Second of all,as i said earlier,Heihachi survived it by sheer durability,he doesnt have like gouken or gill an ability to survive it,if Heihachi did it Jin should likely as well and even then,if you didnt read in tekken 4 Kazuya tried to attack Jin soul and take it,in his ending he succeded,but after beating Jin in his ending,which he didnt got there as Jin won,so he has resistance to that

Third of all,Ryu only projectile is the hadoken only and thats barely enough to take Jin oit from the sky,plus the lasers counter that,Ryu never beat Bison on his own,only time he did was in SF5 and after Bison was cut off from the black moon amp and weakened by Nash and sacrificing himself before Ryu came out and used the mu no ken,as for Dhalsim,i doubt he would use all his abilities especially teleportation on Ryu,he trains with him,he has no reason to fight for real with him,so experience with teleporting characters isnt existing or if any,he never won against one alone,also his ability isnt copying,its taking their power they got and add it to his own,on short,Jin can take the satsui no hado out of Ryu and add it to himself or any other power

Fourth of all,waiting to see how he has better AP,the forms dont have any given multiplier or big of a gap in power,mu no ken has more or less zero and Evil Ryu isnt canon,Ryu never transformed into Evil Ryu ever,at best he tapped into its power on ocassions and for a short time,so no he isnt canon no matter how much you want

Fifth of all,Jin won 3 tournaments officially,Ryu just one and that was by a cheap shot at Sagat,hardly will call that a win,plus he defeated exoerienced fighters as Wang,Kazuya,Heihachi,Jinpachi and Ogre which had moves from many fighters around the world,Jin by far shown to be a better martial artist then Ryu given his victories and acomplishments in tournaments,also Jin has parries and evasive moves and lots of stances,not to mention he learned 3 fighting styles in just two games from his series,Ryu knows just a style and with predictable stuff,like uppercuts and fireballs mostly

Sixth of all and hopefully the last,Mu no Ken(Pon) doesnt grant any nigh invincibility,if it did then it should have displayed such stuff,Akuma beat that Mu no Ken Ryu and wasnt even considered an equal by him,Ryu also stated he will go all out,it didnt matter to the fight at all,also mu no ken sealing evil stuff was done only on characters with evil energy/ki,the devil gene is a genetic supernatural thing,completely different then whatever the evils he sealed,plus Necalli returned and didnt die at all,he faces Akuma later,Bison appeared in that guy story with powers like him,as some sort of soulless thing with no body to possess,it didnt seal anything and if that is an ability of the mu no ken,then honestly it didnt do a great job at all,also Jin used telekinesis to blow up a motorcycle from a distance and choking when the opponents are most of the time beaten

Sorry but as i said and also told in the last Jin vs Ryu thread,Jin got this,he has more impressive stuff and better things overall,Ryu is just overrated whenever i see him in debates anywhere,he is strong and cool as a character,but he doesnt compare to Jin standards

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Phew that turned out longer then i thought it will be

 

[Not_Icarus]

The last Jin VS Ryu fight was with their base forms. And just because the heads of both Street Fighter and Tekken are good buddies doesn't mean that their characters in each others games are literally the same characters unless they explicitly state it. X's example isn't really wrong. Also the votes are still 5-0 againts Jin but OP won't count them because he's either busy or just forgot about this thread I think. Having 2 extra At Least 7-B, Likely Far Higher keys DOES mean something because it's literally saying that he's stronger by a much higher degrees of strength.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ryu has no given number to his AP for his base city level rating and the next forms as i said doesnt guarantee superior AP,thats just your assumption

No his example isnt a good one,smash bros is a non canon crossover game,nothing in there is canon,tekken 7 is canon and not a crossover,those are two different things pal,so the example is still wrong also you got proof to say Akuma in tekken is any different?Im not gonna accept the "they are different in the two series" argument,but anyway i only brought regarding the raging demon here nothing else,then you came in and threw the old argument of not being the same

Its not 5-0 anymore,because i side with Jin and defend him,also the last thread wasnt base forms,it was devil jin and ryu and none of your arguments for Ryu winning are any good either,i already talked enough here for both,dont know how you see Ryu still winning when he doesnt

 

[BlackDarkness679]

He has experience,better skill in h2h and knows more fighting styles,better hax,more control over the battlefield and more impressive feats overall,your reasons for him winning are stuff i already went through in earlier comments,re-read them in case you didnt looked at good enough

 

[Not_Icarus]

They are different. The game has no evidence of his SF backstory and other feats. Because if they were connected, why aren't the other SF characters in the events of the games.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Also it doesn't change the 5-1 vote counts unless you convince everyone else.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There is no evidence that they arent the same as you claim either,also whats the point in showing all his feats in tekken again?If you kmow Akuma and what he does literally no point in showing feats that were already seen

Uhm,read again,i said i go for Jin,so its 5-1 with that,stop making your own head canon

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Also doubt most of the people here will return to say more unless they still follow the thread and i said more then enough to show Jin wins,be realistic

 

[Not_Icarus]

That's also jumping to conclusions in terms of canon. Stuff like some of the Street Fighter comics aren't considered canon. Just because you know who the guy is doesn't necessarily it's the same person ingame. Again, games like Injustice do this with the TMNT and their obviously not the other TMNTs.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Them being in the same universe also contradicts stuff since they both have their own world martial arts tournaments and them not reacting to each other's mega feats like Akuma's island busting feat and Jin's dad making an volcano erupt.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The comics for street fighter were never canon and they were contradictory,also to your question of why arent other sf characters in the game is this,tekken x street fighter is still a thing in development,there you will see more characters from sf,why to put all them in a tekken title...

 

[Not_Icarus]

Was Street Fighter X Tekken ever canon in the first place?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ben 10 and generator rex had a canon crossover as well,alien and predator had many canon crossovers in the past,are we gonna say they are all different versions of the characters cuz they crossed paths?