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I sure love those people who write a single sentence disagreeing with someone without explaining why they are disagreeing. It brings a lot to the discussion and helps us reach a conclusion.
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Ryougi Shiki Tier
- Thread starter Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)
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I agree with Alfredo.
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I'm not really sure if deleting Akasha's profile is something accurate.
You could say Akasha is just a metaphysical location, yet you have lower forces, like Gaia/Alaya, or even the force that culls universes for the sake of the others, that are some sort of sentient.
About Shiki being Akasha...
Here
Kara no Kyoukai epilogue
Then i'm unsure about saying "Oh, an Avatar shouldn't be able to use all the power of the other being"...which in some series may have sense but that doesn't mean every single avatar in every single piece of fiction works the same.
Either way this is just my opinion, it depends on what the rest of you think about it.
You could say Akasha is just a metaphysical location, yet you have lower forces, like Gaia/Alaya, or even the force that culls universes for the sake of the others, that are some sort of sentient.
About Shiki being Akasha...
Here
| "The spiral of origin is the primordial beginning of all things in this pattern of reality. All things pass through the great wheel, their natures and their histories—past, present, and future—are connected to it. It is thus a vast and empty place. It reflects what I am, in a way. I am connected to it, and I am a part of it as well. I am it. |
| "...Indeed. Shiki is incapable of causing anything but destruction. And as far as you're concerned, I'm Shiki after all." "---Shiki?" "...My origin is nothingness. As a result, Shiki, who is possessed of that body, can perceive death. Two years ago--- when she fell into a coma, the outside world was shut off to her. Her vision turned inward toward the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki, and she felt the touch of death. Shiki floated on the sea known as the spiral of origin for a long, long time. A solitary form in the void of ÒÇîÒÇÇÒÇì." ...With an origin like "nothingness" the girl would certainly feel compelled to return everything to nothing. Therefore, she was able to kill all things without exception. Even if the personality of Shiki tried to deny it, her soul itself was oriented toward the death of everything. "That is Shiki's ability. Just like Asagami Fujino, she has a unique channel that can see things normal humans can't. Eyes that can glimpse the spiral of origin, itself a microcosm of the greater world. But, I can dive even deeper than she. Or rather... I suppose you could say that I myself am that spiral." |
Either way this is just my opinion, it depends on what the rest of you think about it.
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>ZERO, did you even the other parts?ALRF said:
Did you? There many lines that suggest Shiki is Akasha itself, you gonna ignore all of that because "oh it's vague"
>oh i am connected to this, therefore i'm this...right?"
Nah she's straight said up said she's Akasha itself and it's Avatar, now if you want to call BS on the character itself that another story cuz I didn't watch all of the series and I can't say for sure
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No, because for the last time, we do not scale avatars to what they are an avatar of. Even if Shiki was Akasha in the literal sense of the word, we'd either:
A. Remove the key from her page and add it to Alaska's
B. Remove the page for Akasha.
Not to mention what ALRF said. Either way, the pages need to be changed.
A. Remove the key from her page and add it to Alaska's
B. Remove the page for Akasha.
Not to mention what ALRF said. Either way, the pages need to be changed.
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Of course, i dont care at all if a boundless is "showing" a personality or not, i also care less if 1-A's are showing personality. Because these are just metaphors, and fundamentally irrelevant. But this is still higher-dimensional levels, excluding such a important part of the Nasu Verse. Is almost like excluding Everything told about it.VenomElite said:
If you guys want to stick with the whole part of "Only make profiles of the main cast". I just ignore this discussion completely, thou dont really care.
Now, for Akasha's tier.....maybe she could be 1-B.
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@Kami You know full well that that's a mistranslation. We've already talk about this in PM several times before. Shiki never make any solid claim like "I am it" or somehing along those line, what she said is pretty much "im actually not it it, but i'm connected to it, so i'm probably it, right?". And Shiki is also never described as an avatar of the Root either
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Shiki is a part of the Akasha.
Literally everything is a part of the Akasha as it is the root of everything. Shiki is just like the largest part of the Akasha.
Literally everything is a part of the Akasha as it is the root of everything. Shiki is just like the largest part of the Akasha.
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Technically this isn't accurate, it'd be more accurate to say that she's connected to the Void/Akasha as she was connected to it when she was a fetus. She'd be dead normally as the World usually kills off such occurrences for safety, but her lineage as a Ryougi saved her and the Ryougis later awakened the Void personality who created her normal personalities and went back to sleep. There's no 'largest part of X' involved here.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Matthew Schroeder said:
That's not even not even the case.
Edit: I didn't see Regis post. But basically what he said
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"Which is why the greatest feats that mages can only dream of are allowed me. I can change the very structure of elementary particles. I can transmute evolution itself, changing everything into something wholly different. All creation dances to the tune of magic and the melody of the arcane Art. I can bend the rules of this lie of a reality, this prison that keeps so many minds in sleep. I can break it as easily as a twig. I can remake this world. I can unmake it. I can make a new one whole cloth."
The **** is this.
The **** is this.
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A mistranslation. Especially that dancing to tune whatever part. That was never in the original text. Dunno where the translator got it from
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This is how you know it's from Cokesakto, and that automatically discredits the whole statement as evidence.Matthew Schroeder said:
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So is this just going to be silently forgotten so that nothing happens?
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I know i said i was going to the profile deletion thread after Setsubun ended, but then DW announced Semiramis and that got 100% of my attention. So i'm postponing that until the Valentines event ends.
You guys obviously don't have to wait for me though. If you want to get rid of Akasha's profile, downgrade Shiki or whatever you wanna do as soon as possible, go right ahead.
You guys obviously don't have to wait for me though. If you want to get rid of Akasha's profile, downgrade Shiki or whatever you wanna do as soon as possible, go right ahead.
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I'm personally waiting for the admins to respond, since they're the ones who can make the changes.
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iirc it's already proven that Shiki stays at her tier
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somone translated it on the spot-ish if I remember it correctly
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That was actually debunked in this thread. There's no proof that Void Shiki deserves to be Tier 1 in anyway.
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I may be ignorant ... But the statements seems clear cut to me. Yes I read everything in the thread... Yes I am aware of the situation. I am just commenting about the statement.
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She never even have feat close to what she claims. And in later work even Void herself claims she cannot stand up to something not even close to universal even with a backup of several Servants
Void Shiki is really just the original personality of Shiki's body (that was forcibly awakened by the Ryougis the clan to prevent Shiki from bejng a vegetable) being in charge of the body anyway
Void Shiki is really just the original personality of Shiki's body (that was forcibly awakened by the Ryougis the clan to prevent Shiki from bejng a vegetable) being in charge of the body anyway
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I'm just stateing my opinion on this subject and stating what I know so take it as you will.
Void Shiki is the original individual born before she was born, due to her origin she was already connected to the Akasha and due to her family interveirence she was able to keep alive after she was born and keep her personality.
I think why she viewed herself as Akasha is because of how Akasha is 'structered', if its the begining and end of all things, then nothing is there even if something becomes a part of it then it just simply becomes nothing. Shiki is so far the only 'thing' we know of that has a form while still being connected, so it is easy to think she is it since she's the only 'thing' connected to it that still has form.
I belive the interpertation that she is Akasha happened because she is the only individual connected that still has a 'form' and 'mind' and since there isn't much else on her level she's all we have so natrually we thought she was Akasha.
I believe she said she could do all those things not because she has control over Akasha but because of her high knowledge on how the world works, which should be more then Shiki assuming Void shiki also has MEoDP. I mean if Shiki says she can kill time then what can Void Shiki kill? Its not about more power or control but just better understanding.
Void Shiki is the original individual born before she was born, due to her origin she was already connected to the Akasha and due to her family interveirence she was able to keep alive after she was born and keep her personality.
I think why she viewed herself as Akasha is because of how Akasha is 'structered', if its the begining and end of all things, then nothing is there even if something becomes a part of it then it just simply becomes nothing. Shiki is so far the only 'thing' we know of that has a form while still being connected, so it is easy to think she is it since she's the only 'thing' connected to it that still has form.
I belive the interpertation that she is Akasha happened because she is the only individual connected that still has a 'form' and 'mind' and since there isn't much else on her level she's all we have so natrually we thought she was Akasha.
I believe she said she could do all those things not because she has control over Akasha but because of her high knowledge on how the world works, which should be more then Shiki assuming Void shiki also has MEoDP. I mean if Shiki says she can kill time then what can Void Shiki kill? Its not about more power or control but just better understanding.
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Manaka is also connected to the Root and she has a form and a mind.
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"Original individual born before she was born" where the hell did you get this from? Also "due to her origin she was already connected to the Root" and "keep her personality", where did you get all these from?
The thing with her seeing herself as a part of the Root is just because she's connected to it. It doesn't even have anything to do with how the root is "structured" or whatever you wrote
What you said are mostly speculation or misconception on something that the novel has already addressed
The thing with her seeing herself as a part of the Root is just because she's connected to it. It doesn't even have anything to do with how the root is "structured" or whatever you wrote
What you said are mostly speculation or misconception on something that the novel has already addressed
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Sera Loveheart said:
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ok I can't input anything rn wtf, lemme continue from here, I typed this for nth time now
@Ren no, unless everyone agrees or disagrees, it'll be concluded, as Sera stated thera are other characters who are also in shiki's state, I disagree on downgrading her, but I agree on CHANGIN Akasha's page, removing the tiers and turn it into a reference page on how Shiki is connected to her
@Ren no, unless everyone agrees or disagrees, it'll be concluded, as Sera stated thera are other characters who are also in shiki's state, I disagree on downgrading her, but I agree on CHANGIN Akasha's page, removing the tiers and turn it into a reference page on how Shiki is connected to her
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@Shiro
To be fair, she outright wonders if she's an equivalent existence to Akasha in her remarks.
"Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality"
I'm just saying it's not baseless, not that I'm supporting this measure.
Whatever the case, Void Shiki's Servant counterpart effortlessly cut down three wraiths that were stated to be approaching the level of Primate Murder, a being on par with Arcueid Brunestud, Goetia, and Tiamat.
She's also stated to be an "omnipotent wish-granting machine" not unlike the Holy Grail.
So again, it's not totally baseless.
To be fair, she outright wonders if she's an equivalent existence to Akasha in her remarks.
"Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality"
I'm just saying it's not baseless, not that I'm supporting this measure.
Whatever the case, Void Shiki's Servant counterpart effortlessly cut down three wraiths that were stated to be approaching the level of Primate Murder, a being on par with Arcueid Brunestud, Goetia, and Tiamat.
She's also stated to be an "omnipotent wish-granting machine" not unlike the Holy Grail.
So again, it's not totally baseless.
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I agree, since I've went through that part yesterday, I think Dr. Roman or Matthew(yes its Mashu is Matthew) said it, and Shiki also said it kinda replicated beasts(Primate Murder) but failed but then again Shiki killed them effortlessly
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"Sacrificing myself for others. I kinda like how human that is"
I love this line so much for some reason. Just the absurdity of it.
17's a robot that wants to be like a human, but in a chill, nonchalant manner than most versions of the trope which are angsty and edgy.
I love this line so much for some reason. Just the absurdity of it.
17's a robot that wants to be like a human, but in a chill, nonchalant manner than most versions of the trope which are angsty and edgy.
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RIP
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