RWBY - Immaterial Non-Physical Interaction Review

[Jinx666]

Hello
This was previous derailed from another thread, but from that ive felt the need to have to elaborate on what i actually mean, since people were assuming I was absolutely dictating how the Geists intangibility works.

First of all, the initial reasons for every character gaining NPI was due to a Grimm called 'The Chill'
It was featured in a 'RWBY Fairy Tale', and despite this it seems to actually exist in Remnant. Thing is, literally no one has fought or interacted with this thing. The scans provided on some Reddit post state that it requires Specialized Huntsmen/tools to merely save someone from dying to a Chill. This does not warrant NPI for everyone with Aura because
A) No mention of Aura
b) Specialized, meaning not every Hunstman/Huntress have the capability to do it.

The RWBY Ice Queendom original character Shion Zaiden, would be an example of a 'Specialized' huntsmen, in the sense she has tools and a semblance specifically for dealing with 'Nightmare' Grimm. Ice Queendoms effect on the main series aside, this is likely what is meant. No one else we know in RWBY could do what Shion could, so therefore everyone in RWBY shouldnt get something like 'Dream manipulation' based on this reasoning, as thats her unique quality

I've seen this has been removed, however it was only made apparent during the previous thread


The Geist.

The Geist is a type of Grimm in RWBY, based on a Ghost, that is weak on its own, but is able to possess inert matter like rocks to make it actually be able to do something. Now it is described in a guidebook as being 'Intangible', however I think the wiki understanding has jumped the gun on how this Intangibility works and whether or not its actually always intangible. From whats being understood, the Geist being 'Intangible' means the Geist is always passively unable to be touched or harmed, unless it possesses something for a solid body.

Despite this, the two instances of Geists in the series have shown the Geist die to a single bullet and a physical punch. This has been acknowledged as a physical attack that would normally pass through a completely intangible being, but it is being said that 'Aura' is the reason why characters are able to hurt the Geist in this form.
There is literally nothing stated to suggest that Geists can only be harmed by Aura-based attacks. There is no statement saying that 'Geists can only be interacted with through aura', or showing of someone without an aura being unable to touch it. If this was RWBY's intention, it is likely they would have wrote something suggesting this.

Therefore, this suggests that the Geists main body CAN in fact be physically touched/harmed, but the Geists in themselves choose when to go intangible. Ergo, they can maybe control their 'intangibility' rather than this wiki's understanding of them being intangible 24/7 and that being an ideal for RWBY characters in general to touch actual ghosts or smthn. This makes it unsure, and ergo NPI should only be a 'possibility' at best, or on Harriet, Clover and Ruby's profiles specifically since they were the ones that did this, and the Aura page. Or downright removed at all since the Geist is completely unclear on how it works, and being the professional wiki that doesnt allow major speculation on any character.

From the Intangibility page on this wiki
'The exact mechanics of intangibility differ depending on the individual, and may have to be activated in order to take effect.'

I should also mention Geists have only ever 'phased' through something that they wanted to possess. It doesnt seem like they can just pass through a wall, or just go through anything they want like regular intangibility. The things literally have to possess something to even be a threat to anyone

Either way, the wiki profiles are saying that it is due to Aura that this is possible, but there is nothing supporting this. It would make sense if it Was the case, but its not confirmed.
Ergo, we cant say that Harriet's punch or Ruby's bullet using Aura is the reason the Geist was hit. This therefore does not disprove the possibility of the Geist's Intangibiltiy being something they can turn on and off, and even further suggests its not something that the Geists can use defensively. The only time the Geist has been intangible it has been possesing something.

Not even the RWBY wiki wants to comment on this special 'intangibility' the Geist has, as its only ever shown possessing things.

(Also gonna bring up that RWBY Chibi does not portray the Geists as this form of intangibility. Torchwick literally captured a Geist in a box, and the Geist could hold a guitar. Im very aware RWBY Chibi isnt a canon series unless you wanna go into some multiverse theory but it might at least be an example of how they want to portray a Geist? Since its only appeared like twice in the actual show). Might also wanna point out how you think any character outside of Aura users in RWBY would deal with a Geist in Versus threads that doesnt have NPI. The Geist is just imune to non-aura damage.

So to summarise in the clearest way possible, so people are surely unable to confuse themselves and think im saying or making points of anything other than these

The Chill reasoning is not viable. Chills havent done anything in the main story, and the reddit information literally calls for specialized huntsmen and tools to deal with something they can do. They are definitely incorporeal but no one has canonically interacted with them. Remove all reasoning to NPI relating to the Chill (unless its to further justify why RWBY characters arent immune to Touch based abilities).

The Geist is incredibly unclear in how its Intangibility works. Is it always intangible? Can it go on and off in intangibility? Does it even have basic intangibility, but instead pass through anything it wants to specifically possess? Lets not make an assumed basis for it and use it to give every character the ability to interact with an intangibility/ghosts when they usually wouldnt. The Geist aren't real ghosts, they're just based off of them.

I am not trying to prove any one way the Geists intangibility works. Its about as useless as trying to comprehend RWBYs writing and consistency, even with guidebook statements. If i had to speculate myself, I would say its an on/off thing, or the Geist physically cant pass through stuff its not going to possess, but otherwise there was never anything 'Scans' were going to prove. We've only ever see the Geist be 'intabgible' through things its trying to possess, and thats seemingly limited to non sentient materials like rock.

There is no evidence or statements saying that Aura is the reason RWBY characters can touch and harm base Geists. Given Geists and their unclear 'Intangibility', this means that would have gotten interacted with through physical force by Harriet and Ruby's bullet, no matter if it was 'Aura' that doesnt specifically change the interaction (which is again, not confirmed). RWBY Characters should not be given NPI for this fact.

What i'd be looking for to change my mind:

-Any concrete evidence that having Aura is required to touch the geist's base form

-Other sources of the Geists intangibility, rather than a single word in the databook (usually big wide-spread powers need a few more reliable sources) that does not perfectly encapture its type of intangibility, which this wiki's Intangibility page also states there is more than 1 type.

-Examples of other 'non physical' Grimm that have been interacted with if any?

 

[Dalesean027]

@WeeklyBattles @SilentLyfe @Cire

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Really? Right as im about to go to work?

 

[Dalesean027]

Really? Right as im about to go to work?

Sorry

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sorry

Nah not you, Jinx. Her ability to make horribly times CRTs is impeccable.

 

[Damage3245]

Really? Right as im about to go to work?

Don't worry, there's no rush. No matter which way the thread goes it'll be open at least 48 hours.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay going to make this real quick as i have to go soon.

First off, the complete lack of scans or evidence to back up anything youre arguing really does not help your case, nor does you arguing using RWBY Chibi (the non-canon joke show that holds no bearing on the main series) and what is and isnt listed on the RWBY wiki as your sources. But thats beside the point.

Second off, seriously this was answered a dozen times over in the previous thread. The Geist is stated in the guidebook to be intangible, and the cast can harm it, ergo they can harm intangible opponents. You are making a mountain of assumptions to argue otherwise. Its never stated or shown the ability to 'turn off its intangibility'. It can be harmed by their weapons because they can harm intangible opponents with their weapons.

And by your argument of 'its never stated that aura lets you interact with intangible things', the cast would have NPI WITHOUT Aura, as no matter how you slice it, they still have feats of interacting with intangible opponents.

As for the Chill argument, if you had read the scan i gave you in the previous thread, you would know that the 'specialized huntsmen' youre focusing on are specialized to REMOVE a Chill without killing the host, not that they are the only ones that can KILL a Chill.

And on top of this, we have stuff like Mercury being able to physically interact with Ruby in her semblance state, which turns her into an intangible cloud of scattered molecules.

The Geist is incredibly unclear in how its Intangibility works. Is it always intangible? Can it go on and off in intangibility? Does it even have basic intangibility, but instead pass through anything it wants to specifically possess? Lets not make an assumed basis for it and use it to give every character the ability to interact with an intangibility/ghosts when they usually wouldnt. The Geist aren't real ghosts, they're just based off of them.

Ah yes, because a direct guidebook statement of 'this grimm is intangible' is so unclear. As i said before, you are making a mountain of assumptions backed by zero evidence other than the sheer disbelief that an intangible creature could possibly exist in RWBY.

I am not trying to prove any one way the Geists intangibility works. Its about as useless as trying to comprehend RWBYs writing and consistency, even with guidebook statements. If i had to speculate myself, I would say its an on/off thing, or the Geist physically cant pass through stuff its not going to possess, but otherwise there was never anything 'Scans' were going to prove. We've only ever see the Geist be 'intangible' through things its trying to possess, and thats seemingly limited to non sentient materials like rock.

There is no evidence or statements saying that Aura is the reason RWBY characters can touch and harm base Geists. Given Geists and their unclear 'Intangibility', this means that would have gotten interacted with through physical force by Harriet and Ruby's bullet, no matter if it was 'Aura' that doesnt specifically change the interaction (which is again, not confirmed). RWBY Characters should not be given NPI for this fact.

Once again, massive and baseless assumption that Geists can 'turn off their intangibility' when this is never stated or shown. The fact that Harriet, Ruby, and Clover have physically harmed a Geist is proof that they have NPI, not that Geists have some unstated, lore-contradicting ability to become tangible.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I will come back to this later, i have to go to work now. Hopefully yall can handle this while im gone.

 

[Jinx666]

Nah not you, Jinx. Her ability to make horribly times CRTs is impeccable.

???
I'm not making threads specifically for you. I dont expect answers from just you either. Reply whenever you want/can, but this thread has been ready for like a week now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

???
I'm not making threads specifically for you. I dont expect answers from just you either. Reply whenever you want/can, but this thread has been ready for like a week now.

Oh I know, I mean no disrespect, it just seems you have a sixth sense for knowing exactly when I'm going to be unavailable to respond consistently to major threads lol

The fact that it's been ready for a week yet was only posted right before I had to leave is even funnier, because I've had nothing to do for the past week and this is the first time since then that I've been unavailable lol

 

[Jinx666]

First off, the complete lack of scans or evidence to back up anything youre arguing really does not help your case, nor does you arguing using RWBY Chibi (the non-canon joke show that holds no bearing on the main series) and what is and isnt listed on the RWBY wiki as your sources. But thats beside the point.

There is nothing to scan or provide evidence for here. It's simply a counter argument and i am not leaning one way or another into how this Geist's inatngibility works. I'd assume you would know exactly what moments im talking about before

Second off, seriously this was answered a dozen times over in the previous thread. The Geist is stated in the guidebook to be intangible, and the cast can harm it, ergo they can harm intangible opponents. You are making a mountain of assumptions to argue otherwise. Its never stated or shown the ability to 'turn off its intangibility'. It can be harmed by their weapons because they can harm intangible opponents with their weapons.

Heres whats going on.

You're saying im claiming the Geist can definitely turn its intangibility on and off, and that i need to prove that, without realising (i dont know how many times i have to bolden it) I think the intangibility is overall skeptical. It can go either way. Theres no proof it works your way, theres no proof it works 'my way'. Its simply one word that can be taken in different contexts, so i don't think we should push forward either narrative.

And by your argument of 'its never stated that aura lets you interact with intangible things', the cast would have NPI WITHOUT Aura, as no matter how you slice it, they still have feats of interacting with intangible opponents.

Except we don't know specifically how the Geist's intangibility works. Its never shown to phase through anything it isn't possessing, and it HAS been harmed regardless.
Theres no proof the Geist is intangible 24/7
Theres no proof how this intangibility specifically works other than it goes into the thing it possesses (And can still somewhat be dragged out btw as per Clover's fishing rod)

As for the Chill argument, if you had read the scan i gave you in the previous thread, you would know that the 'specialized huntsmen' youre focusing on are specialized to REMOVE a Chill without killing the host, not that they are the only ones that can KILL a Chill.

Irrelevant. The Chill hasnt been interacted with, and only specialized tools and huntsmen can do whatever needs to be done to remove it.
If you had read my thread, you would see i said
"The scans provided on some Reddit post state that it requires Specialized Huntsmen/tools to merely save someone from dying to a Chill." - A.k.a What the Chill does WHEN it fully possesses someone

Lets please forget about carrying on with the Chill to shorten our replies

And on top of this, we have stuff like Mercury being able to physically interact with Ruby in her semblance state, which turns her into an intangible cloud of scattered molecules.

We've talked about this before and you've literally labelled this off as an outlier to prove Ruby's own intangibity-like power lol

This was way before they even knew what Ruby's semblance can do. Her semblance is not consistent and the writers knew this so much they had to make Penny give a concrete explanation in a WAY later volume. (Plus i think in this latest volume her semblance has actually been hit with).

Regardless of this, you know as well as i do that Ruby has to actively split herself into different parts in order to actually get past/pass through an object. Clearly her molecular split aside, her atoms are still fairly localised and come forward to make the red-blur-petal form of her Semblance. She is only elementally intangible in this form at best (which she actively needs to split herself apart against) for her to get past any damage. Also what would be the effectiveness of a semblance (Ik Speed but Harriet specifically says its more than that) meant to advantageously allow her to pass through a few things that...everyone else can hit? I dont put it above RWBY's writing, but it makes literally no sense to give Ruby an intangibility-based semblance and then actively have her get hit in the form multiple times

Her semblance provides a force as well, as we saw when she busted through the Atlas door before RWBY fought the Ace-Ops. Also as small as molecules are, they still have a mass. Glad we can finally agree Atoms/Molecules actually exist in RWBY at the least.

Ah yes, because a direct guidebook statement of 'this grimm is intangible' is so unclear. As i said before, you are making a mountain of assumptions backed by zero evidence other than the sheer disbelief that an intangible creature could possibly exist in RWBY.

It is. Intangibility can work in different ways. As the page on this very wiki suggests.

You're making the claim that ALL aura users can interact with Ghosts essentially (Geists still arent actual ghosts), but we've only ever seen it pass through things it specifically wants to possess. Theres been nothing about it being Intangible 24/7, since it HAS been hit before by physical force.

This does NOT mean concretely that RWBY characters can all just interact with them. As as such, the Geist needs to be proven more of its intangible qualities. The only other proper source for a Geists portrayal is RWBY Chibi, which shows it can hold stuff or be trapped in a box, and thats completely non-canon gags (more consistently written than the show). I havent played that 2d Arrowfell scroller but if it appeared there then maybe its worth looking at if it did anything there? (Arrowfell is canon ofc)

Once again, massive and baseless assumption that Geists can 'turn off their intangibility' when this is never stated or shown. The fact that Harriet, Ruby, and Clover have physically harmed a Geist is proof that they have NPI, not that Geists have some unstated, lore-contradicting ability to become tangible.

I could say the exact same thing though with you assuming how the Geists intangibility is just passive?

What i'm asking for is more proftable evidence from the Geist that THIS is how its intangibility works. How YOUR way works. Cause just calling something 'intangible' as a single word in a guidebook (RWBY is awfully inconsistent btw) doesnt make it clear HOW the intangibility works when its been physically killed and touched by RWBY characters. Whats the point of even having an 'intangible grimm' but making every loser with even a bit of an aura able to touch it?

Which you are saying is because of Aura, and ergo scaling it to every other RWBY character essentially, and that sounds insanely extreme for something that was only impromptedly decided on in another thread after yall were sold on the Chill for some reason

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Got a few minutes on my lunch break, but I'm gonna just make this simple and easy as you still have yet to comprehend what I'm saying. The way that you claim Im arguing is the way backed up by scans and in universe examples and evidence. Your way, in contrast, has no scans, no evidence, is using a fandom wiki and a non-canon show as major argument points, and is entirely based on a 'what if' that is directly contradicted by the stuff that has actually been shown about the grimm and abilities in question.

Removing an ability from an entire verse on the basis of 'what if this could be the case and we just dont know it yet?' with zero proof to support your argument other than sheer disbelief is absolutely absurd and does not fly for any verse on this site.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm neutral on this so far, but I'd like to suggest a potential compromise.

Let's say we accept that Geists are perpetually intangible and that the characters who have harmed / killed Geists so far have been able to do because they possess Non-Physical Interaction.

What if we gave Non-Physical Interaction only to those characters in particular, and not assume that it is a universal ability shared by all fighters in the verse?

 

[Spinoirr]

I'm neutral on this so far, but I'd like to suggest a potential compromise.

Let's say we accept that Geists are perpetually intangible and that the characters who have harmed / killed Geists so far have been able to do because they possess Non-Physical Interaction.

What if we gave Non-Physical Interaction only to those characters in particular, and not assume that it is a universal ability shared by all fighters in the verse?

Anyone who hasn't shown NPI gets possibly NPI

 

[Damage3245]

Anyone who hasn't shown NPI gets possibly NPI

Right. That's also an option I'm fine with.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean that would still be the majority of the cast anyways, the cast has shown the ability to interact with and kill geists since the White Trailer, before the series even formally started

 

[WeeklyBattles]

<alternatively we could just ask

 

[Damage3245]

<alternatively we could just ask

If you mean ask the writers / show creators, that would be against the rules.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If you mean ask the writers / show creators, that would be against the rules.

Sorry meant to strikethrough that but I dont know how to on mobile lol

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But yeah, either way all four members of team rwby have physically harmed a geist at some point, plus the ace ops doing the same, plus mercury's feat, plus shion, plus the confirmation that people have killed Chills before

If yall think a possibly rating for others is best then go for it but aside from Ruby the other three members of team rwby are nothing special in terms of huntresses, their ability to harm intangible grimm should warrant applying it solidly to the rest of the cast

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree more with Weekly here.

 

[Jinx666]

Got a few minutes on my lunch break, but I'm gonna just make this simple and easy as you still have yet to comprehend what I'm saying. The way that you claim Im arguing is the way backed up by scans and in universe examples and evidence. Your way, in contrast, has no scans, no evidence, is using a fandom wiki and a non-canon show as major argument points, and is entirely based on a 'what if' that is directly contradicted by the stuff that has actually been shown about the grimm and abilities in question.

In that thread, i asked you to provide a link to things like 'Where did it say Neptune's aura broke' (Which was wrong), or 'Where has it been stated Geists can only be touched by aura users', are things i cannot refer to, but you can apparently.
I know the show, i know you can refer to more aspects of the show since you're like the biggest RWBY fan here (so im aware you know mostly what points im talking about). I dont know where these things you're claiming and thus, i ask for a scan.

Ask me for a scan on something im actually claiming (I'm not claiming how the Geists intangibility definitely works, stop asking me for things that havent got scans), and ill find it, but nothing in my main post needs scans when its mainly logic finding (I did link some scans either way).

Removing an ability from an entire verse on the basis of 'what if this could be the case and we just dont know it yet?' with zero proof to support your argument other than sheer disbelief is absolutely absurd and does not fly for any verse on this site.

? Pretty sure its the opposite way around

If theres skepticism of an ability that scales to Everyone in the Verse, despite minor showings and complete ambiguity, then it shouldnt be so certainly placed on every page without multiple sources.

The proof of every RWBY having NPI (A major power) is that because they can physically touch a Geist, which was said to be 'intangible'. However this goes against being intangible, since the Geist was physically touched. You claim it is because of Aura, but nothing has stated that.

Intangibility can work in multiple different ways. As you're aware, the geist has only ever went intangible into something it is trying to possess. On their own their bodies are weak. So as such, if neither way is confirmed to be the case for the Geist, then it should not be a main power that scales to the ENTIRETY of the aura users.

Your method is thinking is like, 'Prove Ruby Rose hasnt got the power to, idk, manipulate rubber'. The proof is that its never been shown before, but you would respond with 'Yeah but its never been denied she could'. In this context, its not been confirmed or deniied either way on how the Geists intangibility works, so why are we taking it so certainly that the Geist is passively intangible 24/7?

Until the show gives a better showing of how the Geists intangibility works, then I simply dont think its got enough evidence to back such a major power like NPI. At best it should be labelled a possibility, but even then thats oversaturating Aura

 

[Jinx666]

But yeah, either way all four members of team rwby have physically harmed a geist at some point, plus the ace ops doing the same, plus mercury's feat, plus shion, plus the confirmation that people have killed Chills before

If yall think a possibly rating for others is best then go for it but aside from Ruby the other three members of team rwby are nothing special in terms of huntresses, their ability to harm intangible grimm should warrant applying it solidly to the rest of the cast

Yeah lets please not pretend like harming a Geist as a Petra Gigas or an Arma Gigas counts.

The Geist specifically possesses inate, physical material like rock or dust to actually deal damage with. That isnt intangible, and anyone whose harmed that form of Geist possession is NOT an example. period

The only 3 characters to interact with a base geist is Ruby, Harriet and Clover to an extent. And that disproves your theory that they're always intangible, but to cover that up you're trying to make up that Aura is the reason, when its just not confirmed.

So no

Only 1 RWBY member has harmed a base Geist
Mercury's feat is referred to in my big post. It isn't the same and you need to stop flip-flopping which instances are 'Ruby being underdeveloped with her semblance' and 'Rubys always been intangible (she hasnt), Mercury just has NPI' This is not an example of NPI either.
Nightmares arent intangible. They have a physical body and infect someones mind. Shion just has the specific niche to interact with peoples dreams. If she had NPI (and it would be limited), then im fine with that. No one else in RWBY we knowcan do what she does.
Chills are irrelevant and arent interactable to ever'Aura User'. It requires specific and specialized tools/huntsmen, its not a power everybody gets.

This just hasn't got enough concrete showings to put down imo. At best its a possible but again, no need to put down every single 'possible' power a RWBY character has for the sake of making them super versatile or smthn

 

[Jinx666]

Genuinely this all boils down to.

Geists are stated to be intangible in a guidebook (Which will never be as trustworthy as the actual show btw)

- Okay, but they've been hit and killed physically before by Rubys bullet and harriet punching it

Oh, thats because RWBY characters can hit intangible beings and have NPI

-Where is this alluded to

It's their Aura that lets them do it

-Proof?

No, you prove instead how Geists ARENT intangible

- Okay, but they've been hit and killed physically before by Rubys bullet and harriet punching it - etc

Its a cycle, but literally all thats missing here is you proving their Aura is the difference that makes them interact with a Geist. A Geist is not a real ghost,theyre just based off of them. They are claimed to be intangible as one adjective in a guidebook, but have been hit before. The only time they've went through stuff is to specifically possess stuff, there is no instance of them just going through a wall or something.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

In that thread, i asked you to provide a link to things like 'Where did it say Neptune's aura broke' (Which was wrong), or 'Where has it been stated Geists can only be touched by aura users', are things i cannot refer to, but you can apparently.

Jinx. By your own argument, the cast would have NPI even without aura. How many times must this be repeated to you before you understand it?

I know the show, i know you can refer to more aspects of the show since you're like the biggest RWBY fan here (so im aware you know mostly what points im talking about). I dont know where these things you're claiming and thus, i ask for a scan.

Which i have provided, multiple times. And you have ignored, multiple times. And its hilarious that youre the one asking for scans while refusing to post your own scans to back up your own arguments, like you were asked to do, multiple times.

Ask me for a scan on something im actually claiming (I'm not claiming how the Geists intangibility definitely works, stop asking me for things that havent got scans), and ill find it, but nothing in my main post needs scans when its mainly logic finding (I did link some scans either way).

Okay, post a scan that says that Geists can become tangible. Its well known by this point that you dont have scans for anything youre arguing and that youre just talking out of your ass to cover up the fact that this entire revision is one big Incredulity Fallacy.

? Pretty sure its the opposite way around

If theres skepticism of an ability that scales to Everyone in the Verse, despite minor showings and complete ambiguity, then it shouldnt be so certainly placed on every page without multiple sources.

The proof of every RWBY having NPI (A major power) is that because they can physically touch a Geist, which was said to be 'intangible'. However this goes against being intangible, since the Geist was physically touched. You claim it is because of Aura, but nothing has stated that.

Intangibility can work in multiple different ways. As you're aware, the geist has only ever went intangible into something it is trying to possess. On their own their bodies are weak. So as such, if neither way is confirmed to be the case for the Geist, then it should not be a main power that scales to the ENTIRETY of the aura users.

Your method is thinking is like, 'Prove Ruby Rose hasnt got the power to, idk, manipulate rubber'. The proof is that its never been shown before, but you would respond with 'Yeah but its never been denied she could'. In this context, its not been confirmed or deniied either way on how the Geists intangibility works, so why are we taking it so certainly that the Geist is passively intangible 24/7?

Until the show gives a better showing of how the Geists intangibility works, then I simply dont think its got enough evidence to back such a major power like NPI. At best it should be labelled a possibility, but even then thats oversaturating Aura

You are literally the only one who is skeptical about this. One person being skeptical about a written fact does not make the fact wrong, it makes the one person wrong. Its not ambiguous in any way, shape, or form, it is blatantly stated in black and white in the guidebook and show. You are just making up imaginary scenarios to try to prove yourself right.

Yeah lets please not pretend like harming a Geist as a Petra Gigas or an Arma Gigas counts.

The Geist specifically possesses inate, physical material like rock or dust to actually deal damage with. That isnt intangible, and anyone whose harmed that form of Geist possession is NOT an example. period

The only 3 characters to interact with a base geist is Ruby, Harriet and Clover to an extent. And that disproves your theory that they're always intangible, but to cover that up you're trying to make up that Aura is the reason, when its just not confirmed.

This just hasn't got enough concrete showings to put down imo. At best its a possible but again, no need to put down every single 'possible' power a RWBY character has for the sake of making them super versatile or smthn

'And that disproves your theory that they're always intangible'

There you go again. Its not a theory, it is a fact. For it to be a theory it needs to have something that can prove otherwise, something you have yet to provide.

Genuinely this all boils down to.
- Okay, but they've been hit and killed physically before by Rubys bullet and harriet punching it

Yes, wich proves they have NPI

-Where is this alluded to

The fact that intangible grimm such as the Geist, Chill, and Nightmare as well as stuff like Ruby's intangible state while using her semblance can be physically interacted with by the cast.

-Proof?

Again, by your own arguments they dont even need aura to do it.

- Okay, but they've been hit and killed physically before by Rubys bullet and harriet punching it - etc

Yes, because the cast has NPI

Its a cycle, but literally all thats missing here is you proving their Aura is the difference that makes them interact with a Geist. A Geist is not a real ghost,theyre just based off of them. They are claimed to be intangible as one adjective in a guidebook, but have been hit before. The only time they've went through stuff is to specifically possess stuff, there is no instance of them just going through a wall or something.

Literally all thats missing is you providing a single shred of evidence to prove a single thing youre saying here. If something in fiction is direcctly stated to be intangible, and they then get hit, the first assumption is the person hitting them has NPI, not that the intangible thing has some unspoken, undisplayed situational tangibility.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Knowing Jinx is gonna just stonewall without providing any evidence to back her claims, and so we dont get two pages of circular arguments like the last thread, i really feel like we should just vote on this. Theres really nothing left to be said here.

 

[Jinx666]

Knowing Jinx is gonna just stonewall without providing any evidence to back her claims, and so we dont get two pages of circular arguments like the last thread, i really feel like we should just vote on this. Theres really nothing left to be said here.

I dont think enough time has passed tbh, but if i may, i don't think its down to one person to try and put down the others' views and counter arguments, trying to end the discussion entirely on your word.
I could very much say the same about you after all. I'm trying to simplify this down so we arent here for ages

 

[Jinx666]

Jinx. By your own argument, the cast would have NPI even without aura. How many times must this be repeated to you before you understand it?

No, by my own argument, RWBY doesnt have NPI period. I'm not for this, only maybe the slight possibility, but nothing concrete enough to make it a verse-wide power.
You're assuming they have NPI in the first place and trying to use that as a scapegoat in aura os it scales to everyone in the verse.

Which i have provided, multiple times. And you have ignored, multiple times. And its hilarious that youre the one asking for scans while refusing to post your own scans to back up your own arguments, like you were asked to do, multiple times.

I asked for scans for things i didn't know about. And turns out they were completely wrong when you were trying to grasp at straws to give RWBY immunity to transmutation. This seems to have triggered you into thinking its necessary for me to scan absolutely everything that you can already recall.
You have not provided a 'scan' that confirms aura lets you touch it
You have not provided a 'scan' to prove that your method of Intangibility is concretely correct (I'm saying its unclear, i dont need a scan for that)

Okay, post a scan that says that Geists can become tangible. Its well known by this point that you dont have scans for anything youre arguing and that youre just talking out of your ass to cover up the fact that this entire revision is one big Incredulity Fallacy.

Weekly try to comprehend an argument challenge.

Heres three examples of the Geist getting hit physically 1 2 3
You're RWBY's biggest fan Weekly, you dont need scans, you've already established you know EXACTLY what moments im talking about.

You are literally the only one who is skeptical about this. One person being skeptical about a written fact does not make the fact wrong, it makes the one person wrong. Its not ambiguous in any way, shape, or form, it is blatantly stated in black and white in the guidebook and show. You are just making up imaginary scenarios to try to prove yourself right.

I'm not, its not all a big crowd of Weekly supporters like when you used to be mod, and of course i'm going to be hit with backlash when i try and 'downgrade' RWBY in any sense. So i particularly dont care about how many just support you from the sidelines

Are you denying theres more than 1 form of how intangibility can work? Thats going against what the wiki actually has on its page

'And that disproves your theory that they're always intangible'

There you go again. Its not a theory, it is a fact. For it to be a theory it needs to have something that can prove otherwise, something you have yet to provide.

Prove the Geist is tangible

1 2 3

Heres literally direct proof the Geist can be touched and interacted with. Instead though, you're deciding to make up that it just means RWBY characters can hit intangible beings.
It has NEVER been a problem for RWBY to touch a grimm, and theres NOTHING saying that Aura is the one interacting with it. You are trying to grasp for the weakest scenario so your fave verse can hit ghosts? (Geists still arent ghosts

Yes, wich proves they have NPI

No it doesnt????

Bro wants to take one adjective from a guidebook, declare how the intangibility works completely despite RWBY characters actually physically harming it, and try to use it to make their verse strong.

Intangibility can work in more ways than one. Describing it as Intangible doesnt mean it cant also be tangible

And im the stonewall apparently?

The fact that intangible grimm such as the Geist, Chill, and Nightmare as well as stuff like Ruby's intangible state while using her semblance can be physically interacted with by the cast.

The nightmare isnt intangible
The Chill hasnt been interacted with, and it requires specialized things, meaning they cant interact with it normally. This disproves your own argument in that fact that only very special cases, not the entire cast, can interact in some way, if anything. Stop talking abt the Chill.
Ruby isnt intangible. She breaks herself to molecular components, while still being localised as you can see a red blur, and has to actively split these molecules apart to dodge physical stuff. She has elemental intangibility at best. Please stop capping, the fact you've ignored this just proves you cant answer to it

Again, by your own arguments they dont even need aura to do it.

Or they dont have it period. Im not arguing they have any sort of NPI

Yes, because the cast has NPI

Literally all thats missing is you providing a single shred of evidence to prove a single thing youre saying here. If something in fiction is direcctly stated to be intangible, and they then get hit, the first assumption is the person hitting them has NPI, not that the intangible thing has some unspoken, undisplayed situational tangibility.

We dont run on assumptions when said 'Intangible' character has been hit before 1 2 3

If its intangibility is actually made clear and not just a buzzword you want to use from a single guidebook, only 1 adjective about it which doesnt contradict the Geist being able to become tangible on command (It still hasnt went through anything it doesnt want to possess), just does not seem enough evidence to make ******* Russel Thrush hit an actual legit ghost.

 

[Jinx666]

My brother in christ there is LITERALLY a semblance that grants someone actual Intangibility.

Dont even start with that 'layered' intangibility stuff, you're literally gonna try and argue that a character thats actually 'Intangible' cant be hit by any other RWBY character because 'Oh, well it just doesnt work on that one specifically'

Please, have some dang restraint on these characters' powers, you didn't even think this was the case initially, but anything to make RWBY stronger

 

[Damage3245]

My brother in christ there is LITERALLY a semblance that grants someone actual Intangibility.

Dont even start with that 'layered' intangibility stuff, you're literally gonna try and argue that a character thats actually 'Intangible' cant be hit by any other RWBY character because 'Oh, well it just doesnt work on that one specifically'

Please, have some dang restraint on these characters' powers, you didn't even think this was the case initially, but anything to make RWBY stronger

Hmm, this is some pretty relevant evidence that I was not aware of previously.

 

[Jinx666]

Hmm, this is some pretty relevant evidence that I was not aware of previously.

Yeah, Weekly says 'layered intangibility', but thats something completely unestablished (The semblance is intangibility, not intangibility that can negate Aura or smthn) and a much more convoluted reach for something never even in the main series.

RWBY isnt consistent and they'll always be these things, even in other media less so, but overall the power just is not concrete enough to be a power they give to absolutely every character, as if a Geist is a real ghost.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmm, this is some pretty relevant evidence that I was not aware of previously.

This was brought up last thread, it's a different form of intangibility, its phasing as opposed to the nonphysical and elemental intangibilities that the cast have interacted with

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah, Weekly says 'layered intangibility', but thats something completely unestablished (The semblance is intangibility, not intangibility that can negate Aura or smthn) and a much more convoluted reach for something never even in the main series.

RWBY isnt consistent and they'll always be these things, even in other media less so, but overall the power just is not concrete enough to be a power they give to absolutely every character, as if a Geist is a real ghost.

Different type of intangibility =/= inconsistency. There is an excess amount of concrete evidence, you simply refuse to accept it or post any shred of evidence to prove the contrary.

 

[Jinx666]

This was brought up last thread, it's a different form of intangibility, its phasing as opposed to the nonphysical and elemental intangibilities that the cast have interacted with

Aight so why doesnt this mean other layers of intangibility outside of whatever the Geist has got going on, in other pieces of media wouldnt work against RWBY chars?

Theres nothing saying its a different form, this is an assumption.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I dont think enough time has passed tbh, but if i may, i don't think its down to one person to try and put down the others' views and counter arguments, trying to end the discussion entirely on your word.
I could very much say the same about you after all. I'm trying to simplify this down so we arent here for ages

Ironic seeing as that's what you were doing the entire time in the previous thread

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Aight so why doesnt this mean other layers of intangibility outside of whatever the Geist has got going on, in other pieces of media wouldnt work against RWBY chars?

Theres nothing saying its a different form, this is an assumption.

No? It just means they can hit nonphysical and elemental intangibility but not phasing intangibility, those are three different kinds of intangibilities and is even noted as such on our intangibility page

 

[Jinx666]

Different type of intangibility =/= inconsistency. There is an excess amount of concrete evidence, you simply refuse to accept it or post any shred of evidence to prove the contrary.

1 Adjective isnt concrete

Intangibility can work in more than one way

You're not answering anything about the Mercury Ruby interaction i've said. It is not an example.

You're now blatantly assuming (while contradicting yourself on there only being one way the geist is intangible) that its all different, even though the exact same word is being used to describe it as the Geist, with 0 mention on how the semblances' intangibility differs from the Geist

Please stop coping

 

[Jinx666]

No? It just means they can hit nonphysical and elemental intangibility but not phasing intangibility, those are three different kinds of intangibilities and is even noted as such on our intangibility page

???
The Geist isnt a phasing intangibility?????

The Geist is physical. Its been hit before. Intangibility refers to being able to pass through solids, it is NOT the same as being non-physical or noncorporeal

Are you genuinely tryna change your argument now to say the Geist is 'non-physical', which is still not the same as Intangbility completely.
Elemental Intangibility is also not counted within this, its not the same as being non-physical, its just using permeable real-life elements such as water or fire

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At work, will respond to this later

 

[DaReaperMan]

Just saying, Non-Physical intangibility is like a ghost, Elemental intangibility is like sand/water, there's many different flavors of it, and phasing intangibility, while the most basic, is not assumed to be automatically hittable by folks with any NPI.

Jinx, before arguing about it, understand that Intangibility comes in many different forms, you can cry, scream, and stonewall all you want, it will never change the fact that RWBY has shown NPI shit, and if you want to say otherwise, provide scans. I will say "provide scans" to every. Single. One. Of. Your. Arguments. Until you show actual scans.