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RWBY: 8-B and 8-A Upgrades

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Speaking of Grimm Eclipse, is that Canon? If so, I kinda want to add a Mutated Deathstalker Key to it's Page.
 
It is canon, and that's already a key on its page.
 
TheRustyOne said:
It is canon, and that's already a key on its page.
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Really? I must've missed it. Going back to the actual topic of Discussion, would this give V2 Blake 8-B Attacks via Dust since she practically stomped Roman by spamming the **** out of Dust Amped Semblance attacks and stuff?
 
Best not to rate their Volume 2 self whatsoever, since its in a weird inbetween.

They're stronger than High 8-C, but not as strong as their 8-B self. And Blake also caught Roman completely off guard with her new attacks.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Best not to rate their Volume 2 self whatsoever, since its in a weird inbetween.

They're stronger than High 8-C, but not as strong as their 8-B self. And Blake also caught Roman completely off guard with her new attacks.
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I know that, it's just that she still managed to knock him out by the end of it and the gap between their High 8-C Calc and the 8-B Roman Scales to means those Dust Attacks would have to be pretty close to his level to even faze him seeing as he did casually walk off an Atlesian Paladin getting shattered with him inside of it.
 
Would this thread also make the Mutated Deathstalker 8-B since it's currently rated as being able to Two-Shot Team RWBY's Auras?
 
I need to learn and take my own advice it seems.

There is no point in making Volume 2 keys, as they're in between High 8-C and 8-B. They could be High 8-C+ or baseline 8-B, who really knows. The only reason we're making Volume 1 keys is because some characters scale to Pre Fall of Beacon RWBY and the High 8-C Nevermore.

Such as Cardin and his team, who aren't going to be 8-B for being easily stomped by Pyrrha and Penny.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I need to learn and take my own advice it seems.

There is no point in making Volume 2 keys, as they're in between High 8-C and 8-B. They could be High 8-C+ or baseline 8-B, who really knows. The only reason we're making Volume 1 keys is because some characters scale to Pre Fall of Beacon RWBY and the High 8-C Nevermore.

Such as Cardin and his team, who aren't going to be 8-B for being easily stomped by Pyrrha and Penny.
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I get that, all I said was make Blake's Dust Attacks 8-B. That was it.
 
Volume 1 Blake wouldn't scale to anything her Volume 2 self did.

Volume 3 Blake is already 8-B.
 
I mean their frist key will be a mix of vol 1 and 2 like how Deku's profile has his joint training key a mix of overhaul to heroes rising despite growing stronger in that time span
 
No, because Blake is physically 8-B in Volume 2 no question about it.

It isn't just her dust she knocked him out with a kick to the head. And could injure him with her strikes.

Edit: Honestly don't think End of Volume 2 and Volume 3 are really that far apart.
 
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It'd be very dishonest to just give Volume 2 8-B dust, when she clearly scales to him physically as well. Can harm him with her attacks and match blows with him after that. There really is no reason for End of Volume 2 to be 8-B, which means they're basically the same as Volume 3.

Volume 1 is needed for scaling purposes, and we shouldn't ignore it. Volume 1 is only Volume 1, and the next key can be Volume 2 to 3 or something. With Volume 2 being some weird middle ground, I'd say she's baseline 8-B in this case because she still did catch him off guard with the dust.

Volume 1 Roman was able to handle their attacks, but was knocked back by their team work. And there is a possibility of Roman getting stronger as well, but that is baseless speculation on my part;.

Or does anyone have any other solutions?
 
**** we're gonna have to go back to Volume keys

"Volume 1 | Volume 2-4 | Volume 5-6 | Volume 7 onwards"
 
I feel like the beginning of Volume 4 up until they begin training in preparation for the battle of Haven should be one key, and from the post haven training up until before their Atlas training should be another key.

Like: Post-Fall of Beacon | Post-Haven Training | Post-Atlas Training should be the Volume 4 and onwards key's for the main gang.

It's Volume 3 and backwards that'll be a bit tricky (except for Volume 1).
 
I think the keys should be.

Volume 1 | Volume 2-3 | Volume 4 | Volume 5-6 | Volume 7-8
 
TheRustyOne said:
I think the keys should be.

Volume 1 | Volume 2-3 | Volume 4 | Volume 5-6 | Volume 7-8
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While those definitely can work, I feel like it might be best not to generalize a characters growth based on such an overarching thing like seasons, or in this case volumes, if they grow in the middle of that season. The two times this happen are in the middle of Volume 5 when they train in preparation which later on allowed Team RWBY and JNOR to finally be within Qrow's league when even back in early Volume 5 that wasn't the case, and early Volume 7 when they arrive on Atlas and receive training from the spec ops.
 
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Sooo do we talk about the 8-A part or are we not done with the Roman situation?
 
i personally dont think theres any reason to assume roman got stronger either... it does make sense for each of the three volumes to have gotten continually stronger seeing as hey were constantly training as well

maybe 'At least High 8-C, likely/possibly 8-B'? but then what feat would they scale to for High 8-C?

i definitely think Roman should be solidly 8-B though
 
Here is a big list of characters who'd be affected by the changes.

I'd like some feedback, any suggestions on the wording of their scaling. Am I missing someone, or did I mess something up?

Also I did not label some keys that were just, stronger than before. That's why there are no Atlas keys for most characters, as it'd be pointless to write it all down.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Here is a big list of characters who'd be affected by the changes.

I'd like some feedback, any suggestions on the wording of their scaling. Am I missing someone, or did I mess something up?

Also I did not label some keys that were just, stronger than before. That's why there are no Atlas keys for most characters, as it'd be pointless to write it all down.
Click to expand...
My initial issue with this scaling is Hazel.

Dust Infused Hazel one shot the Queen lancer. He is vastly above it AP wise. However, he also was easily pierced by it through the stomach. So his durability is far lower than his AP, and is actually inferior to the Queen Lancer. So what does that mean for those scaling to hurting him?

Secondly, Vernal one shot the Gigas. The Gigas that should be stronger than the Queen Lancer was one shot by Raven’s lackey. Meaning Raven should be able to one shot, meaning Qrow should be able to one shot it. But by that train of logic, Qrow > one shots > Gigas > Lancer > Dust Infused Hazel Durability. But he got absolutely stomped on by Dust Infused Hazel.

So Dust Infused Hazel is > himself somehow in this one shot chain.

These are my 2 issues with Queen Lancer scaling, as I brought up the last time this exact same calc and method were used.

I’m not saying I disagree with the calc or anything, but at least from my understanding, it creates hella problems in the scaling when it’s all coming from the Queen Lancer specifically.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
My initial issue with this scaling is Hazel.

Dust Infused Hazel one shot the Queen lancer. He is vastly above it AP wise. However, he also was easily pierced by it through the stomach. So his durability is far lower than his AP, and is actually inferior to the Queen Lancer. So what does that mean for those scaling to hurting him?

Secondly, Vernal one shot the Gigas. The Gigas that should be stronger than the Queen Lancer was one shot by Raven’s lackey. Meaning Raven should be able to one shot, meaning Qrow should be able to one shot it. But by that train of logic, Qrow > one shots > Gigas > Lancer > Dust Infused Hazel Durability. But he got absolutely stomped on by Dust Infused Hazel.
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Partial Arma Gigas is inferior to a Full Arma Gigas.

Vernal stated that she wouldn't let Weiss take the easy way out, implying the Arma Gigas would've given her lots of trouble. And Weiss continued to try and summon the Arma Gigas despite Vernal so called one shotting it. It's very clear that had she summoned the knight it would've turn things around.

Yes, Vernal had seen her summon it before.

Hazel did not one shot the Queen Lancer, him and Leonardo had been fighting it for awhile offscreen. We have no idea how many attacks it took.

Hazel was impaled because it was confirmed his Aura was down during that time (Piercing Damage is a thing). They scale to Leonardo, who can harm the Queen Lancer with his attacks. Hazel is superior via the scaling he has against Qrow and the others. But he isn't on another existence from them, as Blake can knock him down.

And they are able to hold him off while offscreen.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
My initial issue with this scaling is Hazel.

Dust Infused Hazel one shot the Queen lancer. He is vastly above it AP wise. However, he also was easily pierced by it through the stomach. So his durability is far lower than his AP, and is actually inferior to the Queen Lancer. So what does that mean for those scaling to hurting him?

Secondly, Vernal one shot the Gigas. The Gigas that should be stronger than the Queen Lancer was one shot by Raven’s lackey. Meaning Raven should be able to one shot, meaning Qrow should be able to one shot it. But by that train of logic, Qrow > one shots > Gigas > Lancer > Dust Infused Hazel Durability. But he got absolutely stomped on by Dust Infused Hazel.

So Dust Infused Hazel is > himself somehow in this one shot chain.

These are my 2 issues with Queen Lancer scaling, as I brought up the last time this exact same calc and method were used.

I’m not saying I disagree with the calc or anything, but at least from my understanding, it creates hella problems in the scaling when it’s all coming from the Queen Lancer specifically.
Click to expand...
Two words: piercing damage. Piercing damage let's you damage stuff more durable than your normal blunt force attacks.
Second, the queen lancer was massively amped due to jaune's semblance amping weiss, the arma gigas doesnt scale to the version of the queen lancer used in that fight

Also he was off guard as he had his back turned when he got stabbed (I guess Goku has wall level durability for getting a hole in his chest by a finger laser despite being off guard and getting hit by a laser that does piercing damage)

In that fight, the scaling chain would be dust amped hazel > amped queen lancer > vernal > arms gigas > normal queen lancer
 
TheRustyOne said:
Partial Arma Gigas is inferior to a Full Arma Gigas.

Vernal stated that she wouldn't let Weiss take the easy way out, implying the Arma Gigas would've given her lots of trouble. And Weiss continued to try and summon the Arma Gigas despite Vernal so called one shotting it. It's very clear that had she summoned the knight it would've turn things around.

Yes, Vernal had seen her summon it before.

Hazel did not one shot the Queen Lancer, him and Leonardo had been fighting it for awhile offscreen. We have no idea how many attacks it took.

Hazel was impaled because it was confirmed his Aura was down during that time (Piercing Damage is a thing). They scale to Leonardo, who can harm the Queen Lancer with his attacks. Hazel is superior via the scaling he has against Qrow and the others. But he isn't on another existence from them, as Blake can knock him down.

And they are able to hold him off while offscreen.
Click to expand...
When is it stated the partial is inferior in durability to the full? Genuine question since Vernal just easily sliced it in half.

If that is the case, then that’s a large portion of my issues gone since we won’t have a one shot scaling chain as was proposed last time.

Leonardo was fully concentrated on fighting Oscar the entire time until he hid behind a pillar. Then he hit the Queen Lancer once, which led to Hazel hitting it, which killed it. From what we can see of the Queen Lancer, it dodged every single attack coming it’s way until Leonardo’s. So I can’t really put faith in the belief that they offscreen hurt it when on screen it dodges basically all other attacks.

If his Aura was down then ok. And I know about piercing damage, I’m not dumb.


Spinoirr said:
Two words: piercing damage. Piercing damage let's you damage stuff more durable than your normal blunt force attacks.
Second, the queen lancer was massively amped due to jaune's semblance amping weiss, the arma gigas doesnt scale to the version of the queen lancer used in that fight

Also he was off guard as he had his back turned when he got stabbed (I guess Goku has wall level durability for getting a hole in his chest by a finger laser despite being off guard and getting hit by a laser that does piercing damage)

In that fight, the scaling chain would be dust amped hazel > amped queen lancer > vernal > arms gigas > normal queen lancer
Click to expand...
I know about piercing damage, don’t reiterate it to me like I haven’t been in several RWBY discussions before. Only reason I bring it up is because Aura exists, but I forget his Aura is stupid/different or something and was down.

Jaune does not massively amp people, it’s just an amp.

Except as Rusty just said, the Gigas wasn’t fully formed, so it should be comparable if not stronger than Vernal. And Hazel apparently didn’t one shot the Queen Lancer after Leonardo hit it, so he shouldn’t be above it either. So what is it?
 
Also idk why his aura would be down when he just got done jabbing dust crystals into his body so he could get back into the fight but I’m just going to chalk that up to it being volume 5 where it was peak stupid fighting.

That or he was so impressed by how easily the white fang got beaten that he just… forgot??? Idk
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
When is it stated the partial is inferior in durability to the full? Genuine question since Vernal just easily sliced it in half.

If that is the case, then that’s a large portion of my issues gone since we won’t have a one shot scaling chain as was proposed last time.

Leonardo was fully concentrated on fighting Oscar the entire time until he hid behind a pillar. Then he hit the Queen Lancer once, which led to Hazel hitting it, which killed it. From what we can see of the Queen Lancer, it dodged every single attack coming it’s way until Leonardo’s. So I can’t really put faith in the belief that they offscreen hurt it when on screen it dodges basically all other attacks.

If his Aura was down then ok. And I know about piercing damage, I’m not dumb.
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We don't see the full fight, so you can't say anything about it. There are gaps in this fight we just do not see. Don't try to make this into a problem, there is no issue they fought it offscreen for awhile and when we saw it again they were able to defeat it.

Hazel needs to turn off his Aura to stab himself with the Dust crystals, he can't stab himself with his Aura up. He just didn't turn it back on when Weiss stabbed him because he was distracted by Blake's arrival and was watching the scene unfold.

How about we don't insult a show, especially in a thread that isn't about such a thing. I never said you were dumb, I was just informing about piercing damage as well as Aura being down.

Vernal stated it herself, stating that Weiss can't take the easy way out. And Weiss kept trying to summon it.

Weiss isn't stupid, she isn't going to summon something that'll just be one shotted?
 
"When is it stated the partial is inferior in durability to the full? Genuine question since Vernal just easily sliced it in half."

Never. It's never been stated ot demonstrated to be inferior in any way, even before the timeskip when weiss wasnt even able to fully summon it the arma gigas while just manifested ad an arm and a sword casually oneshot a paladin that could oneshot her.

"If his Aura was down then ok."

His aura was not down, on the contrary, his aura levels and ability to regenerate his own aura were so high that they couldnt reliably deal any permanent damage to him the entire fight. They could damage him but he just regenned.

"Jaune does not massively amp people, it’s just an amp."

Literally Jaune's entire semblance is amping people's aura and semblances significantly on top of their physical power.

"Except as Rusty just said, the Gigas wasn’t fully formed, so it should be comparable if not stronger than Vernal. And Hazel apparently didn’t one shot the Queen Lancer after Leonardo hit it, so he shouldn’t be above it either. So what is it?"

And again, nothing implies that its weaker just because it wasnt fully summoned as shown all the way back since volume 3. And he didnt oneshot it but he did kill it with a single attack after leo shot it once.
 
Weiss isn't dumb here.

Why is she trying to summon something that would be worthless, especially when Vernal can one shot it?

Why would Vernal say Weiss is trying to take the easy way out? Partial Arma Gigas does not scale to the full one.

In this case, all scaling goes out the window if Vernal can just casually one shot something stronger than Weiss. Since this scales to Raven, which scales to Qrow, which scales to Weiss. The partial arma gigas is inferior, how is that not obvious?
 
TheRustyOne said:
We don't see the full fight, so you can't say anything about it. There are gaps in this fight we just do not see. Don't try to make this into a problem, there is no issue they fought it offscreen for awhile and when we saw it again they were able to defeat it.

Hazel needs to turn off his Aura to stab himself with the Dust crystals, he can't stab himself with his Aura up. He just didn't turn it back on when Weiss stabbed him because he was distracted by Blake's arrival and was watching the scene unfold.

How about we don't insult a show, especially in a thread that isn't about such a thing. I never said you were dumb, I was just informing about piercing damage as well as Aura being down.

Vernal stated it herself, stating that Weiss can't take the easy way out. And Weiss kept trying to summon it.

Weiss isn't stupid, she isn't going to summon something that'll just be one shotted. And Vernal herself would just one shot her.
Click to expand...
I do find it to be a problem when the claim that they have hurt it before is completely unfounded. You’re assuming something offscreen happened for no reason at all. The Queen Lancer was easily dodging attacks until it got to Leonardo and screamed in his face, then proceeded to get two shot. That’s what happens on screen. Talking about what happens off screen is kinda important.

Which is a strange decision by him not to turn it back on immediately but fine by me.

It seems like you and Spin have differing opinions on whether the Armas durability is higher or not when partially formed.
 
Spinoirr said:
"When is it stated the partial is inferior in durability to the full? Genuine question since Vernal just easily sliced it in half."

Never. It's never been stated ot demonstrated to be inferior in any way, even before the timeskip when weiss wasnt even able to fully summon it the arma gigas while just manifested ad an arm and a sword casually oneshot a paladin that could oneshot her.

"If his Aura was down then ok."

His aura was not down, on the contrary, his aura levels and ability to regenerate his own aura were so high that they couldnt reliably deal any permanent damage to him the entire fight. They could damage him but he just regenned.

"Jaune does not massively amp people, it’s just an amp."

Literally Jaune's entire semblance is amping people's aura and semblances significantly on top of their physical power.

"Except as Rusty just said, the Gigas wasn’t fully formed, so it should be comparable if not stronger than Vernal. And Hazel apparently didn’t one shot the Queen Lancer after Leonardo hit it, so he shouldn’t be above it either. So what is it?"

And again, nothing implies that its weaker just because it wasnt fully summoned as shown all the way back since volume 3. And he didnt oneshot it but he did kill it with a single attack after leo shot it once.
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Discuss that with Rusty

Wait so he got stabbed through his Aura? Wouldn’t that make the Queen Lancer FAR above his durability then? Because piercing damage is stopped by Aura. If his was up we have a problem.

Yea, it’s just an amp. But this point is meaningless, so let’s stop.

Rusty seems to disagree.

I truthfully do not care about the 8-A upgrade itself, in fact I’m all for it, but when it’s leading into “Vernal one shot this so she can one shot that so Raven and Qrow one shot that so Ruby later can one shot this” is ridiculous. Call it PTSD from when Weekly did this exact same upgrade thread.
 
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