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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

I want to say that AKM sama has extreme degrees of full confidence from me as a staff member and bureaucrat. This forum would literally not be able to function properly at all without his continuous maintenance work and good advice in private discussions. Attacking him in the absolutely over the top manner that Charmander did should earn a 1 year ban at least, and possibly a permanent one, and the people who gave thumbs up to his post should feel ashamed of themselves. It should definitely not be open season on staff members just because they have positions of responsibility and are trying to do their jobs.

As for Arcker123, I do not think that our members should gleefully and unapologetically say the things that he said to anybody here, but they likely weren't offensive enough in themselves to warrant more than a 2 week block or so. The problem is that he has aggressively doubled down to a great and very disrespectful degree, which should probably increase it to at least 1 month or so.

As for Damage3245, he has been an exemplary and very competent and helpful staff member within this wiki, has never misbehaved here, and the official Fandom staff did not consider his commissioned fanfiction stories, completely removed from all of their communities, as sufficiently problematic to demote or ban him, but rather saw his extreme dedication to helping out in many wikis as worthy of a promotion to the Fandom Stars program.
 
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@Antvasima; if you think that a 1 month ban time is better, then I will agree to that.

For me, the issue is that Arcker123 has been dishonest in trying to play off that he doesn't dislike me when he made those posts yet he admits to making a report against me to HR - not for anything I've done on the forum or the wiki, but for something completely unrelated. That, to me, can only stem from a place of dislike. By itself, I wouldn't care that he made the report against me, and he can dislike me all he likes - but that shouldn't affect his posts on the forum.

I've been told "This is just how Arcker123 speaks" by others, but that isn't a good enough excuse to me. Other hostile users have had to change in the past and adjust the way they speak to others. It isn't everyone else's responsibility to cope with their aggression.


As for Charmander; I agree that a 1 year ban for him is necessary as well.
 
Well, I obviously agree about that Arcker123 needs to adapt the way he expresses himself here to become considerably less aggressive.
 
I agree with a year long ban for Charmander. I will say this, things like what Charmander said do not affect me one bit. I guess I have a pretty good tolerance for these sort of things. But if they were said to any other hardworking staff member, I assume they would be deeply hurt and their interest in continuing with this site would go down by a lot. We don't need that kind of environment here where staff members can be targeted/harassed like that simply because they do their jobs and might disagree with a popular CRT. It's a hinderance to the site's functioning. So a month long ban, as was suggested earlier, definitely does not cut it. This sort of behavior has earned several people a permanent ban in the past. And I'd call it lenient if Char is receiving a year long ban for this. From what others have told, he has been on edge in many occasions now. I hope he cools down and comes back better after the ban ends.

I'd settle for a two-month block for Arcker. I think I have a better perspective in this case considering a lot of points he made against Damage in the HR report seemed to be non-points and I was not alone in thinking that he was coming from a place of dislike. And considering he was warned pretty recently (August was just a month ago), for the same type of thing, and yet continues to do so, and doubles down with disrespect doesn't instill me with any confidence that 1 month will be enough. He needs to know he has to behave better around here.
 
Antvasima said:
I do not think that our members should gleefully and unapologetically say the things that he said to anybody here, but they likely weren't offensive enough in themselves to warrant more than a 2 week block or so
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They weren’t offensive to warrant anything beyond at best a warning

It’s very funny how Damage said a warning was sufficient for that comment, but now wants to get me banned so he’s lying about what I said in that thread.
Antvasima said:
The problem is that he has aggressively doubled down to a great and very disrespectful degree, which should probably increase it to at least 1 month or so.
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Not everything that I do is aggressive. All I’ve done is defend myself from the nonsense being put on my name. Nothing I’ve said in this thread breaks any rules to warrant this.
Damage3245 said:
For me, the issue is that Arcker123 has been dishonest in trying to play off that he doesn't dislike me when he made those posts yet he admits to making a report against me to HR - not for anything I've done on the forum or the wiki, but for something completely unrelated. That, to me, can only stem from a place of dislike. By itself, I wouldn't care that he made the report against me, and he can dislike me all he likes - but that shouldn't affect his posts on the forum.
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This is ridiculous.

I truly believe that you should not be on the wiki, and I believe that you did and did at the time. That’s not necessarily hatred, you’re just mistaken.

Also more appeals to hypocrisy. I also never claimed it affected my posts, i explained why I brought that up many times.
Damage3245 said:
I've been told "This is just how Arcker123 speaks" by others, but that isn't a good enough excuse to me. Other hostile users have had to change in the past and adjust the way they speak to others. It isn't everyone else's responsibility to cope with their aggression.
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“Hostile” is just you being bias and soft. It’s not aggressive to call people dumb for making dumb posts. Jesus.

The fact the only person who has a problem with this is you and your circle should tell you a lot.
Antvasima said:
Well, I obviously agree about that Arcker123 needs to adapt the way he expresses himself here to become considerably less aggressive.
Click to expand...
Nothing I’ve said is aggressive at all, just a light joke at the absurdity of Damage’s posts.
Antvasima said:
As for Damage3245, he has been an exemplary and very competent and helpful staff member within this wiki, has never misbehaved here, and the official Fandom staff did not consider his commissioned fanfiction stories, completely removed from all of their communities, as sufficiently problematic to demote or ban him, but rather saw his extreme dedication to helping out in many wikis as worthy of a promotion to the Fandom Stars program.
Click to expand...
I really don’t care if he’s helpful. It’s perfectly reasonable to think Damage is deplorable from those fanfics and should be removed.
AKM sama said:
That's enough. We don't need to engage in back and forth here. Let's simply wait for other admins to respond. Arcker you're allowed to defend yourself but you've already made a number of posts doing so. You don't have to respond after every message.
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I’m not gonna stand for you guys lying about my posts, the context behind them and then circle jerk. Even in the recent posts there’s still wrong information I disagree with. I have every right to speak up against that.
AKM sama said:
I'd settle for a two-month block for Arcker. I think I have a better perspective in this case considering a lot of points he made against Damage in the HR report seemed to be non-points and I was not alone in thinking that he was coming from a place of dislike. And considering he was warned pretty recently (August was just a month ago), for the same type of thing, and yet continues to do so, and doubles down with disrespect doesn't instill me with any confidence that 1 month will be enough. He needs to know he has to behave better around here.
Click to expand...
This is nonsense. You have continued to ignore my responses. You have continued to lie and exaggerate the seriousness of this report. I’ve simply defended my self and pointed out the dishonesty you’re employing to get me banned. You have yet to even justify why my behavior here is even warranting this.
 
AKM sama said:
I agree with a year long ban for Charmander. I will say this, things like what Charmander said do not affect me one bit. I guess I have a pretty good tolerance for these sort of things. But if they were said to any other hardworking staff member, I assume they would be deeply hurt and their interest in continuing with this site would go down by a lot. We don't need that kind of environment here where staff members can be targeted/harassed like that simply because they do their jobs and might disagree with a popular CRT. It's a hinderance to the site's functioning. So a month long ban, as was suggested earlier, definitely does not cut it. This sort of behavior has earned several people a permanent ban in the past. And I'd call it lenient if Char is receiving a year long ban for this. From what others have told, he has been on edge in many occasions now. I hope he cools down and comes back better after the ban ends.

I'd settle for a two-month block for Arcker. I think I have a better perspective in this case considering a lot of points he made against Damage in the HR report seemed to be non-points and I was not alone in thinking that he was coming from a place of dislike. And considering he was warned pretty recently (August was just a month ago), for the same type of thing, and yet continues to do so, and doubles down with disrespect doesn't instill me with any confidence that 1 month will be enough. He needs to know he has to behave better around here.
Click to expand...
I think that AKM makes sense above, except for that I am uncertain if two months is too much for Arcker123.
 
Also, saying I’m doubling down after I clarified this:


Arcker123 said:
I don’t care if you think I’m innocent or not. I’ve literally never said that either. What I’m doing is exposing how your report straight lies about context and over exaggerates a single joke comment I was warned for and didn’t repeat. This is not report worthy at all. Stop acting like “ape” is serious aggression. This is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Is pretty dishonest.
 
Arcker123 said:
This is nonsense. You have continued to ignore my responses. You have continued to lie and exaggerate the seriousness of this report. I’ve simply defended my self and pointed out the dishonesty you’re employing to get me banned. You have yet to even justify why my behavior here is even warranting this.
Click to expand...
Because you are being very rude and aggressive, and are doubling down to an extreme degree, rather than apologising and trying to improve your behaviour.
 
Okay. Thank you for helping out.
 
Yes, that is obviously perfectly reasonable.
 
I would just like to make a general statement, that maybe the regular users of the forum should be able to have a bit more of a say in how these reports go down? After all, it's us who are being affected by the behaviors of potential toxicity in the first place. I'm not saying that everything should be majority rule by the masses, but it seems like the staff opinion is way too absolute here in general.
 
Well, I do not mind genuinely contructive input from regular members here. However, we also need to avoid spam posts and out of control aggressive agitation here.
 
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Constructive input from regular members is not disallowed, but we have to draw a line so that we don't fill important threads with comments without anything happening at all. Can't have 100 people responding to one report before any action is taken. The staff members chosen to be able to handle these sort of things obviously have a better idea regarding the decision making process and most of the times the stray comments get in the way. Which is why we have this rule:

Regular members aren't allowed to post in this Rule Violation Reports thread, unless they are making a report here, have direct involvement in a report, or have relevant information about a report that has not been brought up yet, in order to not derail or delay the processing of the reports, or worse instigate further rule violations. Repeated violations will be followed with a strict warning, followed by a threadban for one week to a site ban for some duration, depending on the severity of their conduct.
Click to expand...

Anyway, the matter has been dealt with, so let's all move on now.
 
Just a brief mention that I know that a large part of us are very stressed out about all the upheavals going on in the world right now, war, revolutions, economic, food, disease, and energy crises, et cetera, but none of that is remotely the fault of the staff or anybody else in this community, so please try to not project your stress, fear, and anger about other unrelated issues in their direction.

Our staff, including myself, don't even get paid for our work here. In fact, my friend who owns this forum has so far lost quite a lot of money from keeping us afloat, and I have been trying really hard to help make this into a friendly, respectful, fun, and collaborative refuge for people from all over the world and different cultural backgrounds, which isn't easy to balance, since different groups tend to have real world grudges against each other, for one reason or another, and sometimes want us to be extra vindictive towards the people who offend them in particular.

Anyway, the point I am trying to get to is that it is very hard for me and other staff members to at least try to act as mediating balanced approach firemen when many others are (usually unintentionally) setting fire to the building, so we all need to try to make a continuous effort to help out to maintain some measure of tranquility here, rather than spread toxicity, grudges, and drama.
 
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Yes, it was just very unnecessary and ungrateful lashout toxicity that tried to cause as much damage as possible on its way out via severely biased, distorted, and shortsighted negativity, slander, and agitation that doesn't help anybody. I deleted the message.
 
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Thank you for helping out.
 
The following member engaged in deliberately toxic and vulgar trolling towards me via his user page. I deleted the post, but staff members can still see it if they wish.

Would a strict warning be sufficient, or is it better to apply a 1 month block or more?

 
Antvasima said:
The following member engaged in deliberately toxic and vulgar trolling towards me via his user page. I deleted the post, but staff members can still see it if they wish.

Would a strict warning be sufficient, or is it better to apply a 1 month block or more?

Click to expand...
Come on dude.

They're just jokes at the end of the day.

A 1-month block is far too much.

A strict warning would suffice, as I haven't really done any report-worthy stuff prior to this.
 
I've seen the image and while it's vulgar, it definitely isn't something that's banned worthy in the context of 1 month, that would honestly be too harsh of a punishment for what was posted in my humble opinion.

I would either just give him a harsh warning about never posting images like that again or a couple day ban so he'll understand that image's like that aren't okay to post.
 
Deceived said:
I've seen the image and while it's vulgar, it definitely isn't something that's banned worthy in the context of 1 month, that would honestly be too harsh of a punishment for what was posted in my humble opinion.

I would either just give him a harsh warning about never posting images like that again or a couple day ban so he'll understand that image's like that aren't okay to post.
Click to expand...
I'd much rather suggest a harsh warning.

I haven't done anything offensive prior to this.
 
Okay. A strict warning then, but I do not appreciate people who take advantage of toxic drama and throw gasoline on the fire.

Do not incite any further toxic drama in this community, and try to be well-behaved from this point onwards. Thank you.
 
Antvasima said:
The following member engaged in deliberately toxic and vulgar trolling towards me via his user page. I deleted the post, but staff members can still see it if they wish.

Would a strict warning be sufficient, or is it better to apply a 1 month block or more?

Click to expand...
It’s a joke at your expense in pretty bad taste, but suggesting a ban is very extreme.
 
Well, I settled for a warning, but posting a vulgar image that represents me performing ******** on other staff members at a time when it deliberately threw gasoline on an ongoing drama fire is legitimately extreme enough for a ban. I was simply lenient enough to try to be forgiving in this regard anyway (despite that I am feeling very disappointed in quite a lot of members currently due to their bad behaviour here by giving thumbs up to a very toxic post), not the other way around.
 
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Generally, I think this wiki does have a problem with giving punishments too harsh to people critiquing staff in vulgar or uncalled for ways. They obviously need punishing but sentences are always far higher than is required (or are at least initially proposed as such), which kinda just proves their point
 
It is a reoccurring issue however, especially considering the elephant in the room that AKM’s comment about Arcker left earlier, it is of course worth talking about, since it’s going to keep being brought up regardless every time it happens
 
ZillertheBucko said:
It is a reoccurring issue however, especially considering the elephant in the room that AKM’s comment about Arcker left earlier, it is of course worth talking about, since it’s going to keep being brought up regardless every time it happens
Click to expand...
Can we not pls?

Whether I agree with this or not, this is just stirring the pot even more.
 
Pikaman said:
Generally, I think this wiki does have a problem with giving punishments too harsh to people critiquing staff in vulgar or uncalled for ways. They obviously need punishing but sentences are always far higher than is required (or are at least initially proposed as such), which kinda just proves their point
Click to expand...
That seems like nonsense claims to me. From what I recall, we have recurrently punished members who have behaved in a comparative or much less extreme manner than how Arcker123 or RandomGuy2345 behaved towards me or AKM much harsher if it was directed towards other regular members, and have comparatively had to personally act as ongoing waste-baskets for people who project and take out their grievances over real world problems on mostly harmless and hard-working unpaid fictional entertainment wiki managers, due to that we don't want to be perceived as tyrannical or create a too oppressive environment here.
 
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