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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

As the person who was in those screenshots, I’ll give some extra context, doesn’t really make it better, but there was a conversation taking place over Yellow_Topaz’s ban where him and @Phoenks were discussing her being a “entirely made up transgender persona” so she could sock puppet. I said that’s absurd because their only proof was Charmander on their channel had a male voice, leading to these frankly disgusting comments.
 
Looking at the dates of those screenshots, why weren't they brought up in the first place? Anyways, I support a 6 month ban for this.
 
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Propellus said:
Looking at the dates of those screenshots, why weren't they brought up in the first place? Anyways, I support a 6 month ban for this.
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The first two were not brought to my attention until somewhat recently (@CurrySenpai posted them on Discord on 6/8, which I could not post here at the time because I was at work), and while the third one was quite some time ago, I figured a single instance wouldn't really be enough for a report on its own, so I just blocked him and left it at that. Of course, now that this is a pattern of behavior, there's no doubt that he ought to be banned.
 
Excuse me?

Outside the fact that some are literally over 1 year old (lol), the reason why Shmooply was banned was him making the report against Topaz while making a transphobic claim.

Not to mention that:
You literally blocked me not even a hour after a perfectly normal conversation we had (heck I was surprised and I got the reason on why you did only after like a week lmfao).
Propellus said:
why weren't they brought up in the first place?
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I genuinely have no idea, sounds like she wants to downgrade a verse I like and make sure I am not in to interfere or something.
 
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This response leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The oldest of the screenshots is 6 months old, the others are only a few weeks old.

Insinuating that the reason Fuji is making a report about actual transphobic comments you made, one of which was specifically about her, is because she wants to make sure you don't interfere with a downgrade is incredibly ridiculous. Made even more so by the fact that she already explained why the report wasn't made immediately: she is not in these servers and was only made aware of these comments yesterday.

I am in the server where CurrySenpai posted them, so I can confirm they were posted there less than 48 hours ago. It has nothing to do with her planning a downgrade.
 
Deagonx said:
The oldest of the screenshots is 6 months old, the others are only a few weeks old.
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One says 12/02/2023, but ok.
Deagonx said:
Insinuating that the reason Fuji is making a report about actual transphobic comments you made, one of which was specifically about her
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Which, you know, it was mostly just an edgy joke which was brushed off immediately.

I never made harassments against her for that, heck we were even making totally normal conversations in DMs until she blocked me out of nowhere this January, I never tried to make anything serious against her for being trans, nor even tried to apologize or stuff like that (something I was planning to do originally while explaining, but was afraid of whatever outburst she'd do), if she's really this fed with me.

But I didn't do anything of this nature on-site, much less on serious matters, and getting banned for stuff I do very damn rarely while being ironic is just asinine and ridiculious.
 
Sorry, If i may question it here, but why is a offsite scans bringed up here? I thought only site behaviour was valid for any action taken, and ofsite behaviour can at most be used as strenghtening a claim and not the full report?

(Feel free to delete this, but if so Could i get a answer on my message wall)
 
I daresay Strym's comments are notably worse than Shmooply's, even. I find it hard to believe these were made in a joking manner.

It has been my stated opinion in the past that it is not for VSBW to determine and police how people think, regardless of the foul depths of those thoughts. Still, this extends beyond just thinking, doesn't it, when you're confronting someone like Curry with a statement that trans people aren't real.

If it was just that one, I'd be willing to believe it was a joke that landed poorly. In such an instance, I would push for forgiveness over kneejerk reaction banning. But the other one, with Deidalius, is even worse. It is just transphobia behind closed doors, which makes it hard to take the first as anything but transphobia, too.

If people can act peacefully and overcome their base instincts or beliefs, I think they should be allowed to remain. But this isn't you doing that. I still wouldn't agree with a permanent ban based on two incidents, but this is a legitimate rule violation, I believe.

StrymULTRA said:
One says 12/02/2023, but ok.
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12/02/2023 was 6 months ago, my man.
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Sorry, If i may question it here, but why is a offsite scans bringed up here? I thought only site behaviour was valid for any action taken, and ofsite behaviour can at most be used as strenghtening a claim and not the full report?

(Feel free to delete this, but if so Could i get a answer on my message wall)
Click to expand...
Our rules have been revised and argued to be applicable to anything sufficiently problematic offsite. This extends to any behavior that can be presented as causing undue distress in other site users, even if performed offsite. Past applications of this have been shady, in my reckoning, but this one is markedly less so.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I find it hard to believe these were made in a joking manner.
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I make edgy stuff kinda regularly, I was never serious once about them but whatever.
Mr. Bambu said:
If people can act peacefully and overcome their base instincts or beliefs, I think they should be allowed to remain. But this isn't you doing that. I still wouldn't agree with a permanent ban based on two incidents, but this is a legitimate rule violation, I believe.
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As I said, I never did anything against Fuji or anyone else off just transphobia. I was even interacting with her normally both here and off-site until she suddenly blocked me. I never had anything serious against her, she's doing this all by herself.
Mr. Bambu said:
12/02/2023 was 6 months ago, my man.
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I read it as 12 February 2023, while we're in 10 June 2024.
 
Given that, if I did not misunderstand, Strym does not seem to have said anything transphobic directly to Fujiwara as a means of harrassment, but rather expressed an unsympathetic viewpoint in private, this seems like a significantly mitigating circumstance, and Strym is an otherwise well-behaved member as far as I am aware, so a permanent ban seems like an extreme overreaction.

Would 3 months or so be acceptable?
 
i genuinely don't see why there seems to be some sort of witch-hunt against Fuji. How is that by any means worth reporting?? She said a joke, which even if it wasn't funny, was VERY harmless, and if Dereck had a problem with it, he, as a staff member, has the ability to warn Fuji if she crossed the line.

Also - comparing blatant transphobia to calling someone an asshole which was VERY obviously a joke (as it was even crossed out), is very disappointing to see. (also styrms case has literally nothing to do with this report here against fuji, but whatever.)
 
Antvasima said:
I think that Strym said much the same thing when he offended Fujiwara offsite.
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I do not comprehend why is a ban even necessary.

The Big Foot thing was just me jokingly dismissing an argument against one I made about Topaz's sockpuppet issue, given that the main discussion was arguing on other factors on why it's a sock. It was never meant as a general statement of "trans people don't exist", that's objectively ridiculous.

The comment of december was never meant to be a direct offense against her, it was just me being edgy for the sake of being so, and it all happened while me and her were still on good terms, before someone snitched that on her, with Fuji blocking me in the middle of a normal convo we were having on top of that.

I never even interacted with Fuji since, as I was expecting her to either have an outburst, given her other showings of short temper, or just ghost me.
 
Nierre said:
i genuinely don't see why there seems to be some sort of witch-hunt against Fuji. How is that by any means worth reporting?? She said a joke, which even if it wasn't funny, was VERY harmless, and if Dereck had a problem with it, he, as a staff member, has the ability to warn Fuji if she crossed the line.
Also - comparing blatant transphobia to calling someone an asshole which was VERY obviously a joke (as it was even crossed out), is very disappointing to see.
Click to expand...
Dereck03 mentioned in private to me that he does not like to be disrespected in this manner.

I also don't want there to be double-standards here. "Do unto others as you wish to be treated yourself" basically.

I am not engaged in a witch-hunt, and do not want Fujiwara to be harrassed or severely insulted, and sympathise with that she is likely under considerable stress due to the largely intolerant society she lives in, but she needs to make a continuous effort to behave well herself as well, especially to harmless people like Dereck03.

Also, I am not saying that these are equivalent offences, but the more severe offence seems to have been done in private and offsite, whereas the lesser one was done in the open and onsite.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
I do not comprehend why is a ban even necessary.

The Big Foot thing was just me jokingly dismissing an argument against one I made about Topaz's sockpuppet issue, given that the main discussion was arguing on other factors on why it's a sock. It was never meant as a general statement of "trans people don't exist", that's objectively ridiculous.

The comment of december was never meant to be a direct offense against her, it was just me being edgy for the sake of being so, and it all happened while me and her were still on good terms, before someone snitched that on her, with Fuji blocking me in the middle of a normal convo we were having on top of that.

I never even interacted with Fuji since, as I was expecting her to either have an outburst, given her other showings of short temper, or just ghost me.
Click to expand...
Well, if you did not say anything offensive to her personally, or disparage her in a public server, those are obviously severely mitigating circumstances.
 
Antvasima said:
Dereck03 mentioned in private to me that he does not like to be disrespected in this manner.

I also don't want there to be double-standards here. "Do unto others as you wish to be treated yourself" basically. I am not engaged in a witch-hunt, and do not want Fujiwara to be harrassed or severely insulted, and sympathise with that she is likely under considerable stress due to the largely intolerant society she lives in, but she needs to make a continuous effort to behave well herself as well, especially to harmless people like Dereck03.
Click to expand...
If Dereck did feel disrespected then sure. From your original post it sounded like someone else outside of Dereck reported her, I'll mind my business then.

And I do agree with you about respect by the way. I also apologize for chatting here without permission.
 
Nierre said:
If Dereck did feel disrespected then sure. From your original post it sounded like someone else outside of Dereck reported her, I'll mind my business then.

And I do agree with you about respect by the way. I also apologize for chatting here without permission.
Click to expand...
No problem at all. Thank you for your feedback. 🙏

Also, I updated my second to last preceding post here. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Well, if you did not say anything offensive to her personally, or disparage her in a public server, those are obviously severely mitigating circumstances.
Click to expand...
I never had anything against her, much less for gender identity, nor have made some attempts of truly humilating her in other places (because I know what it feels like to be ridiculed constantly over the smallest stuff, but that would go too personal), as I wouldn't gain anything from it either.

Shmooply on the other hand got banned for not just sincere transphonic comments, but also seemingly targetting Topaz due to her being transexual, which was the main reason why he got banned in the 1st place.

Banning me over 2 things that were neither serious nor actual harassment against Fuji would set a terrible precedent, imo.
 
Those seem like very good points, but I would like to see what other staff members here think about them and my own points above. 🙏

Personally I do not think that this seems very severe, and it also happened offsite.
 
I don't usually like to involve myself in these cases, so forgive me if this comes off as intrusive.

For what it's worth, Admins should investigate the context to Fuji's report, which started here. Whomever wrote the report neglected to mention, that, the context was indeed an offhand joke about giving vsadmins profiles, which led to the comment about calling Dereck03 an asshole (jokingly), linking to a jokesbattles profile (note that this profile has been edited by Dereck03 himself) that is of Dereck03. Furthermore, the context was effectively joking about powerscaling vsb members. I also want to highlight that this occurred in the fun and games thread, which isn't meant to downplay the real feelings that Dereck03 felt-- rather-- it is to shine a light on the setting the post took place in, and provide some semblance of relief.

Hg35064.jpeg


Given the context of the discussion in the thread, I don't believe there was any real malicious harm intended. However, I do think that Fuji should explain herself regardless and to clear any overdue grievances or wrongdoings.

Edit: To that end, I would like to ask that staff allow Fuji a chance to explain herself, and ping her to respond.

Antvasima said:
Dereck03 did not find it funny, and I think that Strym said much the same thing about when he offended Fujiwara offsite.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Also, I am not saying that these are equivalent offences, but the more severe offence seems to have been done in private and offsite, whereas the lesser one was done in the open and onsite.
Click to expand...
Please consider the circumstances by which you've linked the two reports here. As someone who identifies openly as trans, I think it's remiss to compare blatant, closeted transphobia the same as calling someone an asshole on an open forum. Whether intent was there or no, the choice of words are poor here-- because this comes off as an evolved stance.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
I never had anything against her, much less for gender identity, nor have made some attempts of truly humilating her in other places (because I know what it feels like to be ridiculed constantly over the smallest stuff, but that would go too personal), as I wouldn't gain anything from it either.

Shmooply on the other hand got banned for not just sincere transphonic comments, but also seemingly targetting Topaz due to her being transexual, which was the main reason why he got banned in the 1st place.

Banning me over 2 things that were neither serious nor actual harassment against Fuji would set a terrible precedent, imo.
Click to expand...
You literally went out of your way to single her out and misgender her, that is blatant transphobia and the definition of singling her out.
You’re allowed to make jokes, but the direct misgendering of someone with seemingly no punchline or buildup is not that.
 
CurrySenpai said:
You literally went out of your way to single her out
Click to expand...
What?

Even if it was true, it was no way a mean to directly cause discomfort to her.

Is this Wiki seriously becoming a moral police where you cannot say anything in places unrelated to it without getting reported?
CurrySenpai said:
You’re allowed to make jokes, but the direct misgendering of someone with seemingly no punchline or buildup is not that.
Click to expand...
You weren't in that server then. Edgy stuff like that is the norm there (and I cannot really screenshot anything because I've left it months ago).

And again, it happened hella before someone snitched it on Fuji, I was having a regular way with her before so.
 
StrymULTRA said:
You weren't in that server then. Edgy stuff like that is the norm there (and I cannot really screenshot anything because I've left it months ago).

And again, it happened hella before someone snitched it on Fuji, I was having a regular way with her before so.
Click to expand...
I’m gonna give what should be some obvious advice, but just because you exist in a place with “edgy” humor does not mean what you are saying is okay. The fact that you openly admit that and wish to grab screenshots worries me that there is even more stuff like that.

Also, being regular with Fuji does not give you the right to make such uncouth comments, nor does it make your case better, if anything it just makes it look like you put on a mask in public so you can privately slander her with rather offensive language.
StrymULTRA said:
Is this Wiki seriously becoming a moral police where you cannot say anything in places unrelated to it without getting reported?
Click to expand...
If your first thought is to use the “I’m being censored because the wiki is the woke moral police!” card then I think that goes to show there’s no real defense for what you said. I know it’ll make me more comfortable knowing that someone who makes transphobic comments is gone, even if it wasn’t on forum.
 
ShionAH said:
I would like the note the discord server is really really edgy so if we start banning people for this then half of the discord will be banned lmfao
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Dude, this is the worst thing you could have said, you actually just self reported an entire server. I guess thank you for bringing it to my attention that there is a server that thinks making bigoted comments such as this funny, guess I’ll have to pay attention to the RVR thread a bit more.
 
Damage3245 said:
Well, that'd depend on what is being said.
Click to expand...
I talk about stuff like rape jokes, as an example.
CurrySenpai said:
I’m gonna give what should be some obvious advice, but just because you exist in a place with “edgy” humor does not mean what you are saying is okay. The fact that you openly admit that and wish to grab screenshots worries me that there is even more stuff like that.
Click to expand...
I mean, as I said I left the place as it was becoming too much for me too at a certain point. But nothing was actually serious, obviously.
CurrySenpai said:
If your first thought is to use the “I’m being censored because the wiki is the woke moral police!” card then I think that goes to show there’s no real defense for what you said. I know it’ll make me more comfortable knowing that someone who makes transphobic comments is gone, even if it wasn’t on forum.
Click to expand...
Deidalius got unironically reported off similar jokes from Fuji, despite those being jokes as well.
 
Quibster said:
Please consider the circumstances by which you've linked the two reports here. As someone who identifies openly as trans, I think it's remiss to compare blatant, closeted transphobia the same as calling someone an asshole on an open forum. Whether intent was there or no, the choice of words are poor here-- because this comes off as an evolved stance.
Click to expand...
I explicitly stated that I do not consider the two cases equivalent in the post that you quoted from me.

I just think that Fujiwara needs to make an effort to be nice to others if she wants them to treat her nicely as well.

Also, if an otherwise well-behaved member called me an "autist r-word" or similar in an offsite private setting, which I think would be of worse severity than what happened here, I would not remotely consider it worthy of permanently banning them due to borderline thought-policing.

However, I may be mistaken, especially as social drama is definitely not my area, so let's wait and see what Bambu, DarkGrath, and other administrators here think. 🙏
 
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