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Riordanverse Tier 6 Revisions

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Considering that St. Helen's eruption was 200 megatons, and it might as well be a firework compared to Yellowstone's, it's probably accurate
 
The fact that their source is this article of the USGS.

I don't think that they are being literal about "Every nuke in the world", that's most likely only to give a sense of the sheer magnitude of a type 8 eruption.

The actual type 8 eruption is probably much stronger than that, when you consider the fact that the volume is literally thousands of times more compare to St. Helen's.
 
Krakato was 200.

But we should stop derailing, St. Helen's is the one that matters here
 
I was just scrolling through the original CRT to upgrade them to 6-C, and there were also people who claimed that 6-C is an outlier just like you guys, I'll just copy-and-paste the arguments made by multiple knowledgeable Riordanverse members, which pretty much sums up what I think.


We usually go by characters' highest showings.

For example, Goku has only actually started tearing apart the universe once, but since he's gotten stronger since that feat, we still assume he's Universe level.

Percy and co. have taken the physical fight to the Titans and Giants, who can tank their normal attacks as well as the usage of their powers.
~ Reppuza​
Once again, you are literally expecting every fight scene to include nuclear explosions or apocalyptic consequences. The Demigods have various Tier 7 feats and also a Tier 6 feat done by multiple Demigods.
~ Matthew Schroeder, speaking to BarryAllen2.0​
We have concept called area of effect in this wiki. Due to fiction often being illogical, characters of very extreme levels of power recurrently do not destroy everything in their environment to anywhere near that scale.
~ Antvasima, replying to Meosos who said that the characters did not destroy mountains or islands during their fights​

The problem with this consistency argument is, even though I am a big proponent of this as well is most of the feats earlier were done with a casual context.

Hubbarb Glacier was just a casual smack, Mt St Helens Eruption was an accident, etc We can go on with this line of reasoning forever. The gap between just city level and island level isnt that big. If it was a much larger gap, we would have called it an outlier. IE: Solar System Batman because he fights superman a few times.

A good metaphor I can use here is we are comparing someone who upmot potential, has island level energy output. Which is what this wiki cares about the most.

Also, in a verse like percy jackson where most feats are physical to begin with anyway, I didnt see much of a problem here.

If we had an island level feat and then a serious city buting feat, we probably wouldnt have done the upgrade.

Also, Ant said it best. This is fiction, it is illogical to begin with.
~ Kinkiest Sins​
Attack Potency and range are two different things, Meosos. Attack Potency just has to mean you can hurt someone with that level of durability and/or other similar feat. You don't always need the range to back it up.
~ Darkanine replying to Meosos when he said that Percy cannot casually destroy cities with his punches​

Also, a lot of the low-end PIS instances that treat Percy as if he's only barely superhuman really don't have much value considering all the impressive Tier 7 feats in the series.

Hell, in Magnus Chase, Magnus wrestles Jormungandr which is the size of a skyscrapper, but also thinks that he can't lift a car.
~ Matthew Schroeder​
 
The titns and gigants part is bull as I already said. You can't use fighting a tier 4 as a reason for tier 6 not being an outlier.

The sky feat is unaplicable. I already explained why several times.

There is one storm feat, and you want to scale that between each other and to physical stats...
 
@Risci-viragosi

1. I agree, but the other points still stands. Btw the Titans were nerfed in the PJO series, pretty sure they were not at full strength.

2. Luke was crumpled to the floor, but he could have rose back up before the Sky dropped on Annabeth. The Sky is "rocks" because of the Mist I think, just like Typhon being thunderclouds. The book also stated that Luke rolled free, but if Luke was literally plastered to the floor they won't be space for him to roll free.
 
Anyway here's the text.


Then the darkness above Luke began to crumble, like a cavern roof in an earthquake. Huge chunks of black rock began falling. Annabeth rushed in just as a crack appeared, and the whole ceiling dropped. She held it somehow—tons of rock. She kept it from collapsing on her and Luke just with her own strength. It was impossible. She shouldn't have been able to do that.

Luke rolled free, gasping. "Thanks," he managed.

"Help me hold it," Annabeth groaned.

Luke caught his breath. His face was covered in grime and sweat. He rose unsteadily.

"I knew I could count on you." He began to walk away as the trembling blackness threatened to crush Annabeth.

"HELP ME!" she pleaded,

"Oh, don't worry," Luke said. "Your help is on the way. It's all part of the plan. In the meantime, try not to die."

The ceiling of darkness began to crumble again, pushing Annabeth against the ground.
Firstly, the darkness above Luke (the Sky) crumbled (fell downwards), which suggested Luke highly likely pushed back up slightly. Annabeth rushed in as the rocks (the Sky) began to fall. After that, Luke rolled away.

The last line also stated that the ceiling of darkness began to crumble again. If Luke was plastered to the floor and Annabeth did not have the Sky fall on her, she must have somehow pushed the Sky back up and crumbled down again. Considering the book does not mention that, it is safe to say that the Sky fell on her.

tl;dr The Sky either fell on her or Annabeth somehow pushed it up and fell back down (which can be quantified as well).
 
Also another thing: Percy did not literally see the Sky as rocks (which is what you use to "prove" the vision is not reliable). In another dream, he stated that the mass looked like boulders only.

I was back in that barren cave, the ceiling heavy and low above me. Annabeth was kneeling under the weight of a dark mass that looked like a pile of boulders. She was too tired even to cry out. Her legs trembled. Any second, I knew she would run out of strength and the cavern ceiling would collapse on top of her.
 
1) Goku's case is a false equivalence. DBS throws universal statemements around like candies, and there is more than one feat on a universal scale.

2) No one is saying "downgrade them because they don't nuke cities with every attack". The argument is that multiple times, they perform tier 7 feats with a lot of effort, when they should be casually in the gigatons range at this point in time.

3) I have no idea where the tier 7 feats being casual comes from when both Jason and Percy were damaged extremely badly by two tier 7 explosions

4) Matt seems to agree with tier 7 as well.
 
Matthew isn't even in this thread, Iirc he just said something like I suppose Toer 7 might be more consistent which seems more like conceding than agreeing to me.

Will respond to the other stuff when i get back on PC
 
Kaltias said:
snip
Click to expand...
1. I do not know about Goku, but the point is we usually scale characters to their highest showings.

2. It is a response to the argument that they never shown that kind of power later on in the series.

3. The glacier feat was a casual smack, Jason was harmed but recovered to fight more monsters after that explosion, Hazel only died due to oil inhalation IIRC and was young and untrained, Nico was also young and untrained plus did not show any signs of tiredness after doing so, and the volcano feat - firstly Percy was only knocked out by the high fall, secondly it is an unquantifiable amount higher than 24 megatons.

4. He only said something like "I suppose Tier 7 might be more consistent", which doesn't seem like he really agrees. Sure, you may invite him to comment here, but from my experience he is usually busy. Plus even if he now agrees with Tier 7 those arguments are not necessarily invalidated.
 
1) We go with the highest showings if they are consistent.

Again, refer to my comment about every witch in PMMM being scaleable from a tier 4 feat.

2) And that's true? They have one tier 6 feat, which is never repeated afterwards.

3) A "casual smack" that required the use of his powers. Someone like Jason wouldn't have been able to do the same.

Jason was harmed very badly. Regis posted the quote above.

RegisNex1232 said:
Jason Chapter 44

"He swept his spear sideways, met Jason's javelin—and with a snap like a shotgun blast, the golden weapon shattered.

The explosion was hotter than the giant's breath, blinding Jason with golden light. The force knocked him off his feet and squeezed the breath out of him.

When he regained his focus, he was sitting at the rim of a crater. Enceladus stood at the other side, staggering and confused. The javelin's destruction had released so much energy, it had blasted a perfect cone-shaped pit thirty feet deep, fusing the dirt and rock into a slick glassy substance.

Jason wasn't sure how he'd survived, but his clothes were steaming. He was out of energy. He had no weapon. And Enceladus was still very much alive.

Jason tried to get up, but his legs were like lead.

Enceladus blinked at the destruction, then laughed. "Impressive! Unfortunately, that was your last trick, demigod."

Enceladus leaped the crater in a single bound, planting his feet on either side of Jason. The giant raised his spear, its tip hovering six feet over Jason's chest."
Click to expand...
Hazel died. We don't know if she would have survived or not. Oil inhalation killing her is not proof that she would have survived otherwise.

Percy was extremely weakened and we already discussed it above. He also does not scale from the full yield of the explosion, because surface area is a thing.

Nico needed to use his powers as well. It's not something that he can pull off by punching the ground or something
 
1. We go with the highest showings if consistent. I do not know and do not care what is PMMM, but it seems that the gap is far wider than the gap here.

2. They never repeated 6-C because fiction doesn't tend to show them actually destroying islands and cities.

3. A casual smack they included use of some of his powers. Still casual. Jason couldn't get up immediately after the explosion because he was briefly incapacitated. If a strong guy punches me I will be unable to get back up briefly but can eventually. Jason did not need any medicine or treatment and continued on his journey, later even fighting Porphyrion.

We do not know if Hazel would have died or not, yeah. Exactly. So this feat cannot be used as proof that she is 7-C.

If I recall correctly Percy was in the epic centre of the explosion. We just have to multiply by his cross-section area or 0.68 which will make little difference. Also the volcano eruption is unquantifiable, 24 megatons is based on the the St Helens eruption in the 20th century, not the exact scene. The explosion is an unknown amount higher than 24 megatons as Percy managed to weaken the spell on Typhon, which Typhon himself couldn't do. Of course I am not saying Percy is stronger than Typhon, but he is stronger than Typhon's raw power (I mean even when he is incapacitated he is still extremely powerful, causing volcano eruptions. His mere death released a stream of storm spirits)

Nico needed to use his powers, yeah? Not sure what you mean.
 
And old threads don't matter. Invite these people here if you want their word to be valid. Our standards have changed since years ago - deadlift feats aren't even scalable to AP anymore, so the argument that multiple demigods did it is not even applicable, and many people are in support of a downgrade.

> The narrative suggests that Percy witnessed himself flying and falling towards the ground.

So what? He lost consciousness before he hit the ground.
 
> We can assume the same case for Mount Saint Helens. So Percy must have to produced an unknown amount more than 24 megatons to stir Typhon in his sleep.

Except that these old eruptions were Typhon stirring in his sleep. That's why the volcano erupts. So the most you can prove or assume is just that. Nothing higher.

> Oh and IIRC Jason destroyed Krios with his bare hands then destroyed Mount Othrys.

Jason killed Krios and then, with the help of hundreds of Demigods, brought down a palace built atop Mount Othrys. This being a tier 8 feat would already be pushing it.
 
Kepekley23 said:
A reminder that Saint Helens's explosive energy, which is what would apply to Percy's durability feat, is only 7 megatons. The other 17 megatons are thermal/heat-based energy.
Click to expand...
The volcano eruption does not necessarily scale to the 1980s eruption. And those old eruptions were not Typhon stirring in his sleep IIRC, his presence was powerful enough to cause that. It was specifically said that Percy's explosion weakened the magic on Typhon.

Old threads do not matter, true, but since those arguments are what I think can express my point, I posted anyway. Who said it does not matter.

Also it was never mentioned Percy lost conscious before he hit the ground, it was said that "he remembered himself falling like a comet".
 
It's either that or actually assign a VEI to it based on the effects that were described in the book - and I can guarantee it will be lower. If you do that you'll also be making Percy lose his 7-B feat.

The old eruptions were Typhon stirring in his sleep. It's never said his mere presence is what causes it, and it makes exactly zero sense to assume that, since neither Saint Helens nor Etna erupt catastrophically every week and wreak country-wide havoc.

Percy said he remembered getting high and then starting falling like a comet. No whip SFX of him witting water to indicate him being conscious up until the fall, and nothing about him losing his consciousness after hitting something or anything like that. When he wakes up he doesn't remember having hit anything and has to be told that he hit a body of water that cushioned his fall. Mind you that the books are written on the point of a view of a Percy that has already experienced the entire series, so it would have been mentioned if he had remembered it. What is two plus two? Four.
 
I don't think it can be calculated though. It is definitely higher than the 7-megaton thing, by an unknown amount.

Please quote the part it is said that it was caused by Typhon stirring in his sleep. And Percy also weakened the magic that sealed Typhon, which caused Typhon to break out later.
 
There's not even proof it is higher than anything, so the "definitely higher" is false. We just assume the 7 megatons because it's the only in-depth recorded Mt. Saint Helens eruption in history we have to go off of. If anything it's a high-end because the effects as described are certainly not what you expect of a multi-hundred megaton blast.

I don't have to quote anything. All that we need to know is that his presence causing the eruptions would lead to them happening every week. The burden of proof is on you.

Unless you're saying that Percy's feat is High 4-C, that's actually a super anti-feat for Typhon's seal, considering we know Percy's feat did not surpass the megatons in any shape or form going by the described effects.
 
It won't necessarily lead to them happening every week, it's just occasionally lava coming out. I will read Percy Jackson's Greek Gods again tmr, which iirc never mentioned him stirring, very sleepy atm. Also pretty sure it was mentioned that it was until Percy's explosion that Typhon stirred in his sleep.

Its effect? Percy just remembered an explosion. That's all. Btw wasn't the explosion caused by water crashing into lava?

No? Typhon was unable to break free himself. (weakened+sealed Typon) Percy weakened the spell.

Imma go to sleep.
 
I hope you realize how much of a gobstacking underestimation of what a large-scale volcanic eruption "it's just lava" is. And it was never mentioned that Typhon had never stirred before.

  • ""The telekhines were scattered," the god told me. "Some vaporized. Some got away, no doubt. I don't think they'll be using my forge any time soon. On the other hand, neither will I. the explosion caused Typon to stir in his sleep. We'll have to wait and see—""
Nothing about it never happening before. In fact, Hephaestus talks about it like it's merely relatively rare and caution-worthy instead of a never-seen before, go-into-a-panic event.

The effects as described:

  • "Still uncertain about further eruptions," the newscaster was saying. "Authorities have ordered the evacuation of almost half a million people as a precaution. Meanwhile, ash has fallen as far away as Lake Tahoe and Vancouver, and the entire Mount St. Helens area is closed to traffic within a hundred-mile radius. While no deaths have been reported, minor injuries
and illnesses include—"

Ash fell away roughly 650 miles away (distance between Lake Tahoe and Saint Helens). Meanwhile, the 1980 eruption had the ash fall away as far as 930 miles from the eruptio.

So at best here, going by the effects described, we can speculate the same rough level of power.

Typhon was not weakened at all. He was weakened when he was sealed, but he recovered, which is why it took all eleven Olympians AND Poseidon fighting at once to even hope to restrain him. The seal is clearly High 4-C since it holds him back. It seems obvious that this is a major anti-feat for his seal.
 
I did not say it is just lava.

Previously Typhon was unable to break out. After weake.ing the magic, he broke out.

He was weakened when he was sealed, exactly. What are you even talking about.
 
You said that Typhon's mere presence is what makes the volcanoes erupt. But if that was the case we'd be seeing them erupt at least slightly every week or so - to which you replied "he just makes some lava come out".

Except Percy's feat is tier 7. Him weakening the seal is an anti-feat for the seal, which is tier 4 in strength.

Typhon was weakened when he was sealed countless thousand years ago. By the time the series has rolled around he is as good as new, which is why he can effortlessly brush all twelve Olympians aside.
 
I don't recall me saying that, but if I did you can disregard it. Typhon only occasionally causes eruptions because of his raw power.

Typhon was weakened by some music stuff as Zeus tricked him, beat him down before he could react, and trapped him under a mountain. He was good as new when he broke out of the volcano.
 
Which is when he stirs a bit. Stirring literally means "moving slightly". Anyway, I guess that part is dropped then.

That's literally what I have been telling you word-for-word for several posts by now.
 
Kepekley23 said:
My point is that the Saint Helens explosion is at best the same as the 1980 eruption.
Click to expand...
I read that article you linked me to, it sounds like the wind blew the ashes in the 1980 eruption. Is it really relevant with the eruption power of the volcano? Maybe the winds were just stronger back then.
 
@Red Cup

The article reads like this:

Over the course of the day, prevailing winds blew 520 million tons of ash eastward across the United States and caused complete darkness in Spokane, Washington, 400 km (250 mi) from the volcano. Major ash falls occurred as far away as central Montana, and ash fell visibly as far eastward as the Great Plains of the Central United States, more than 1,500 km (930 mi) away.
Sounds like the ash is being blown by prevailing winds.

Also not sure who you are, you just came out of nowhere and called me a ******* moron.
 
Let us review:

  • No proof regarding anything about the eruption. The only description we have of it has its aftermath be weaker than what was caused by the original eruption.
  • The stuff about it making Typhon stir somehow proving it to be stronger than the last eruption is false, since it's never stated that it's the first time he stirred and it's in fact implied not to be the only time it has happened, since Hephaestus treats it as something that is only relatively rare
Ergo; the anti-feat is at best equal to 7 megatons
 
Also, I have thrown around some rough high-end estimates about the kinetic energy of the feat, assuming Percy made the lava inside the magma chamber (roughly 5 kilometers down) instantly rise up all the way to the mouth of the volcano in just one second, and even then I only managed to get a 30 megaton result.
 
The aftermath depends on the wind, so I'm not sure if that is reliable at all.

Typhon's previous eruptions didn't cause anything, but this time Percy made him stir, he actually managed to break out. This shows that it is highly likely this eruption was more powerful than the previous ones.

The lava is 10 040 000 000 kg?
 
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