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- Thread starter
- #281
I'm okay with it. But I thought we already adjusted everything? I can create the ones we've agreed tho. Thalia scales to Luke.
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Riordanverse Review
- Thread starter Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
- Start date
- Status
- 991
- 68
Well, I dont agree with the 6-C if we use the sky feat. Characters like Luke and Annabeth are certainly not that powerful and big three demigods achieve this tier only with their powers.
I thought we agreed that we cant use the sky feat, because it only works at this situation and is an outliner. Or are you all really suggesting that annabeth and luke can casually destroy cities if they want by pure physical strength ? That seems really wrong
(even for pery and jason)
I thought we agreed that we cant use the sky feat, because it only works at this situation and is an outliner. Or are you all really suggesting that annabeth and luke can casually destroy cities if they want by pure physical strength ? That seems really wrong
(even for pery and jason)
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We have concept called area of effect in this wiki. Due to fiction often being illogical, characters of very extreme levels of power recurrently do not destroy everything in their environment to anywhere near that scale.
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I understand that. I care more for consistency in this case, since it doesnt seems to represnt their real power level.
The problem with this consistency argument is, even though I am a big proponent of this as well is most of the feats earlier were done with a casual context.
Hubbarb Glacier was just a casual smack, Mt St Helens Eruption was an accident, etc We can go on with this line of reasoning forever. The gap between just city level and island level isnt that big. If it was a much larger gap, we would have called it an outlier. IE: Solar System Batman because he fights superman a few times.
A good metaphor I can use here is we are comparing someone who upmot potential, has island level energy output. Which is what this wiki cares about the most.
Also, in a verse like percy jackson where most feats are physical to begin with anyway, I didnt see much of a problem here.
If we had an island level feat and then a serious city buting feat, we probably wouldnt have done the upgrade.
Also, Ant said it best. This is fiction, it is illogical to begin with.
The problem with this consistency argument is, even though I am a big proponent of this as well is most of the feats earlier were done with a casual context.
Hubbarb Glacier was just a casual smack, Mt St Helens Eruption was an accident, etc We can go on with this line of reasoning forever. The gap between just city level and island level isnt that big. If it was a much larger gap, we would have called it an outlier. IE: Solar System Batman because he fights superman a few times.
A good metaphor I can use here is we are comparing someone who upmot potential, has island level energy output. Which is what this wiki cares about the most.
Also, in a verse like percy jackson where most feats are physical to begin with anyway, I didnt see much of a problem here.
If we had an island level feat and then a serious city buting feat, we probably wouldnt have done the upgrade.
Also, Ant said it best. This is fiction, it is illogical to begin with.
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Even 12 Year Old Percy could fight Ares in his human form. By the 5th Book after being Amped by Achilles' Curse he is fighting equally with Weakened Cronos and is capable of swatting a blast from Hades.
Percy is consistently getting stronger throughout the books.
Percy is consistently getting stronger throughout the books.
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Attack Potency and range are two different things, Meosos. Attack Potency just has to mean you can hurt someone with that level of durability and/or other similar feat. You don't always need the range to back it up.
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Also, a lot of the low-end PIS instances that treat Percy as if he's only barely superhuman really don't have much value considering all the impressive Tier 7 feats in the series.
Hell, in Magnus Chase, Magnus wrestles Jormungandr which is the size of a skyscrapper, but also thinks that he can't lift a car.
Hell, in Magnus Chase, Magnus wrestles Jormungandr which is the size of a skyscrapper, but also thinks that he can't lift a car.
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@Matthew
I wouldn't compare the einherjar to the Demigods just yet. Percy and Annabeth are gonna be prominently featured is Ship of the dead where its implied percy is gonna fight the nordic god of the sea.
Either way, you can't just say majority of his feats are PIS in favor of a single physical feat. Pretty sure All subsequent books prior negate that but whatever.
Do you at least aknowledge that Percys Town Level feat and Hazel sinking an island or any other feats of said level have been via manipulation of their powers which don't scale physically? Do you at least Acknowledge that?
I wouldn't compare the einherjar to the Demigods just yet. Percy and Annabeth are gonna be prominently featured is Ship of the dead where its implied percy is gonna fight the nordic god of the sea.
Either way, you can't just say majority of his feats are PIS in favor of a single physical feat. Pretty sure All subsequent books prior negate that but whatever.
Do you at least aknowledge that Percys Town Level feat and Hazel sinking an island or any other feats of said level have been via manipulation of their powers which don't scale physically? Do you at least Acknowledge that?
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Is Annabeths entire arc throughout HoO PIS?
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@Barry
It scales physically because they can hurt each other. The end.
It scales physically because they can hurt each other. The end.
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It doesn't work like that. They have one feat that scales them to 6-C and every physical feat after across 10+ books is consistent FAR lower. They are CONSISTENTLY harmed by FAR LESS.Matthew Schroeder said:
Holding up the sky is an outlier. It's a single feat held by Luke, Annabeth, Percy that is far above the normal in the previous 2 books, Titans Curse in general, and ALL of the following books Percy and the others have appeared in.
Every subsequent feat at that level by Demigods have been been through Manipulation of their powers but nothing in any of the books imply that it scales to them pbysically.
Infact, nothing suggests that the gods in human form, weakened Titans or the Giants couldn't be harmed by Celestial Bronze or Imperial Gold in the first place, if I'm wrong, please Direct me to said book and/or chapter, I own them all.
6-C Percy and Nico scaling from Hazel through Manipulation of their powers is fine.
Thalia and Jason wouldn't scale due to Jasons feats in MoA which is far less than Mt. St. Helens. Annabeth and Luke should be nowhere near this conversation unless we're talking physical stats which at best is around Building Level for Jason and Percy causing noticable tremors.
Like seriously, if all you're using is Holding up the Sky which the entire series proves to be an outlier, then this conversation is moot tbh, you'll believe what you will. And Viseversa.
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@Barry
Jason is considered to be on par with Percy and the two had the potential to kill each other when they were possessed by Eidolons.
And no, Percy did not use his water powers to pull Iapetus into the River Lethe, and in fact did it while groggy and weakened:
"I reached up and grabbed his shirt collar, counting on the fact that he was off balance as well as hurt. He tried to regain his footing, but I pulled him forward with all my body weight. He stumbled and fell, grabbing my arms in a panic, and together we pitched into the Lethe."
Iapetus is one of the strongest Titans. If Percy wasn't remotely comparable, he wouldn't have been able to budge him, wounded or not.
Jason is considered to be on par with Percy and the two had the potential to kill each other when they were possessed by Eidolons.
And no, Percy did not use his water powers to pull Iapetus into the River Lethe, and in fact did it while groggy and weakened:
"I reached up and grabbed his shirt collar, counting on the fact that he was off balance as well as hurt. He tried to regain his footing, but I pulled him forward with all my body weight. He stumbled and fell, grabbing my arms in a panic, and together we pitched into the Lethe."
Iapetus is one of the strongest Titans. If Percy wasn't remotely comparable, he wouldn't have been able to budge him, wounded or not.
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Does anyone have any objections with closing this thread? I think we should make a blog post justifying these tiers for future readers, but at this point we are going in circles.
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.... I don't see the problem. It's been reached it's conclusions, feels like a few are reaching for straws.
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Percy and Nico should scale to Hazel sinking an island through manipulation of their powers, Percy Casually wrecking Hubbard Glacier, Nico causing tremors strong enough to Collapse structures, Percy collapsing tunnels in The maze with tremors, that would lend credit to them scaling, especially considering they were more inexperienced then.
Percy and Leo should scale to Mt. St. Helens alone but only in heat resistance, this is because Volcanoes errupt with Thermal Energy and their parents Nature give thembheat resistance which is why Percy could fall in magma and not instantly burn to death like the monsters.
Its because of this that Jason and Thalia shouldn't scale being as When Jason was possessed and blood lusted, his lightning stike inly momentarily dazed Percy with only steam emminating from the area he was hit. The Force behind the bolt is what's more impressive, not heat behind it, because poseidons Nature keeps Percy from being vaporized.
Also in that is Percys best strength feat since him clashing with Kronos on Brooklyn Bridge. Him and Jason were causing noticable tremors. Tremors are Generally felt at roughly magnitudes of 3.0 which can be produced by half a ton of tnt according to this:
http://alabamaquake.com/energy.html#/
Which is more believable and in line when considering The power Kronos showed in their battles with CoA Percy and their clash was verafiable more stronger being as their tremors threated to Collapse the Bridge. To produce tremors capable of that, thats when 6-C and Higher is scalable to physical stats, so Kronos and Hyperion should Scale physically and CoA Percy, not Krios because of losing to Jason alone, but again, Krios is the weakest and given the Demigods feats of strength and what not, its implied Gods and such are simply able to be harmed by Celestial Bronze and Imperial gold regardless of the Demigods strength and that certainly is the case as Book 1 Percy at 12 years old couldn't have had the strength to Harm Ares who being a full powered major god would at least scale to weakened Titans. What proves this even more is that Thalia, Luke and Annabeth at around the same age were being toyed with by a random Cyclopes despite having more real world experience. Island level cyclopes? Nah...
Thalia should only scale. Nico, given his age and diet shouldn't yet.
Unfortunately, Percy Jackson isn't a Graphic Novel officially. It'll take some weeks if not longer to go through the originsl 5, Heroes of Olympus, Side books like Demigod files and Demigods and magicians, etc, Trials of Apollo and Magnus chase....ƒÿó
Percy and Leo should scale to Mt. St. Helens alone but only in heat resistance, this is because Volcanoes errupt with Thermal Energy and their parents Nature give thembheat resistance which is why Percy could fall in magma and not instantly burn to death like the monsters.
Its because of this that Jason and Thalia shouldn't scale being as When Jason was possessed and blood lusted, his lightning stike inly momentarily dazed Percy with only steam emminating from the area he was hit. The Force behind the bolt is what's more impressive, not heat behind it, because poseidons Nature keeps Percy from being vaporized.
Also in that is Percys best strength feat since him clashing with Kronos on Brooklyn Bridge. Him and Jason were causing noticable tremors. Tremors are Generally felt at roughly magnitudes of 3.0 which can be produced by half a ton of tnt according to this:
http://alabamaquake.com/energy.html#/
Which is more believable and in line when considering The power Kronos showed in their battles with CoA Percy and their clash was verafiable more stronger being as their tremors threated to Collapse the Bridge. To produce tremors capable of that, thats when 6-C and Higher is scalable to physical stats, so Kronos and Hyperion should Scale physically and CoA Percy, not Krios because of losing to Jason alone, but again, Krios is the weakest and given the Demigods feats of strength and what not, its implied Gods and such are simply able to be harmed by Celestial Bronze and Imperial gold regardless of the Demigods strength and that certainly is the case as Book 1 Percy at 12 years old couldn't have had the strength to Harm Ares who being a full powered major god would at least scale to weakened Titans. What proves this even more is that Thalia, Luke and Annabeth at around the same age were being toyed with by a random Cyclopes despite having more real world experience. Island level cyclopes? Nah...
Thalia should only scale. Nico, given his age and diet shouldn't yet.
Unfortunately, Percy Jackson isn't a Graphic Novel officially. It'll take some weeks if not longer to go through the originsl 5, Heroes of Olympus, Side books like Demigod files and Demigods and magicians, etc, Trials of Apollo and Magnus chase....ƒÿó
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@Barry
Jason blasted apart Mount Orthrys while fighting Krios.
Mt. St. Helen's eruption isn't just thermal energy, there's an explosive amount of kinetic energy released in a volcanic eruption.
I didn't agree to upgrading Luke, but he was possessed by Kronos well through the latter half of the series.
Jason blasted apart Mount Orthrys while fighting Krios.
Mt. St. Helen's eruption isn't just thermal energy, there's an explosive amount of kinetic energy released in a volcanic eruption.
I didn't agree to upgrading Luke, but he was possessed by Kronos well through the latter half of the series.
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@Reppuzan
He didn't. Iirc, its stated the romans together brought down the palace while jason himself fought Krios. Mt. Orthrys is still intact for the most part, and Zeus gives us an example of destroying a mountain, never Jason.
He didn't. Iirc, its stated the romans together brought down the palace while jason himself fought Krios. Mt. Orthrys is still intact for the most part, and Zeus gives us an example of destroying a mountain, never Jason.
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@Barry
Krios is still stronger than the likes of Iapetus, who Percy dragged into the Lethe.
You still haven't addressed the fact that Percy tanked the kinetic energy that came with the eruption of Mt. St. Helens.
"Afterward, I could never describe what happened. An explosion, a tidal wave, a whirlwind of power simultaneously catching me up and blasting me downward into the lava. Fire and water collided, superheated steam, and I shot upward from the heart of the volcano in a huge explosion, just one piece of flotsam thrown free by a million pounds of pressure. The last thing I before losing consciousness was flying, flying so high Zeus would never have forgiven me, and then beginning to fall, smoke and fire and water streaming from me. I was a comet hurtling toward the earth."
Krios is still stronger than the likes of Iapetus, who Percy dragged into the Lethe.
You still haven't addressed the fact that Percy tanked the kinetic energy that came with the eruption of Mt. St. Helens.
"Afterward, I could never describe what happened. An explosion, a tidal wave, a whirlwind of power simultaneously catching me up and blasting me downward into the lava. Fire and water collided, superheated steam, and I shot upward from the heart of the volcano in a huge explosion, just one piece of flotsam thrown free by a million pounds of pressure. The last thing I before losing consciousness was flying, flying so high Zeus would never have forgiven me, and then beginning to fall, smoke and fire and water streaming from me. I was a comet hurtling toward the earth."
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Ok, well then yes, I was partially wrong. The force of it would Scale to Percy and "some" of the others, but even then, the full anount of the erruption can't be given to him because only a fraction of it hit his body, therefore, it has to be calced how much energy actually hit the surface area of his body, no?
The entire explosion created a million pounds of force. And again, Percy didn't drag or wrestle iepatus into the lake.
Mind you, in the same chapter while Percy was fresh before they came across Iepatus:
Mind you, those monsters are fodder, literally. Percy wasn't close to 100% when they fought Iepatus and Iepatus was heavily injured before percy "Got lucky" and if I remember correctly, this was before Kronos was resurrected or directly after. This also goes ro proves Their weapons can harm Gods and immortals, not because of their strength or power.
The entire explosion created a million pounds of force. And again, Percy didn't drag or wrestle iepatus into the lake.
Mind you, in the same chapter while Percy was fresh before they came across Iepatus:
Mind you, those monsters are fodder, literally. Percy wasn't close to 100% when they fought Iepatus and Iepatus was heavily injured before percy "Got lucky" and if I remember correctly, this was before Kronos was resurrected or directly after. This also goes ro proves Their weapons can harm Gods and immortals, not because of their strength or power.
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@Barry
Percy isn't a scientist and neither is Riordan. Saying that it was just "a million pounds of force" isn't comparable to the eruption that generates 24 kilotons of thermal energy alone.
I literally just cited that passage. He grabbed Iapetus by the collar and pulled him in it says it right there.
Not to be rude, but you're blatantly lying at this point.
I pulled him forward with all my body weight.
And yet he is still strong enough to smash Terminus's head into Polybotes hard enough to cave his nose in.
To be frank, Riordan doesn't know the scale of his own feats, but scaling Percy down for being injured by fodder is like downgrading all of Final Fantasy because they're scared of falling off a cliff.
Percy isn't a scientist and neither is Riordan. Saying that it was just "a million pounds of force" isn't comparable to the eruption that generates 24 kilotons of thermal energy alone.
I literally just cited that passage. He grabbed Iapetus by the collar and pulled him in it says it right there.
Not to be rude, but you're blatantly lying at this point.
I pulled him forward with all my body weight.
And yet he is still strong enough to smash Terminus's head into Polybotes hard enough to cave his nose in.
To be frank, Riordan doesn't know the scale of his own feats, but scaling Percy down for being injured by fodder is like downgrading all of Final Fantasy because they're scared of falling off a cliff.
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Reppuzan is right. This is getting ridiculous at this point.
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@Reppuzan
It's not scaling down if its consistently shown to happen and you're blantly ignoring this part:
"...counting on the fact he was off balance as well as hurt."
I'm not lying either. And I change my opinion of the tanking feat because he was at the epicenter of it. That being said, I agree with Scaling Percy, Jason, Thalia, Nico, Hazel from the Eruption physically. Though, in the case of Nico and Hazel, only in Durability.
That being said, depending on how much you think Jason and Percy shook the ground in their clashes, the resulting energy could be at the same level. I low balled it because I don't see Percy and Jason causing tremors on the level of Kronos and CoA Percy, and I definitely don't see Percy and jason and others Striking with the same force as the explosion, don't think Percy and Jason are putting each other on a deathbed from single strikes.
So yes, Their striking strength should be much lower than their Durability. But again, Celestial Bronze and Imperial gold make that irrelevant.
It's not scaling down if its consistently shown to happen and you're blantly ignoring this part:
"...counting on the fact he was off balance as well as hurt."
I'm not lying either. And I change my opinion of the tanking feat because he was at the epicenter of it. That being said, I agree with Scaling Percy, Jason, Thalia, Nico, Hazel from the Eruption physically. Though, in the case of Nico and Hazel, only in Durability.
That being said, depending on how much you think Jason and Percy shook the ground in their clashes, the resulting energy could be at the same level. I low balled it because I don't see Percy and Jason causing tremors on the level of Kronos and CoA Percy, and I definitely don't see Percy and jason and others Striking with the same force as the explosion, don't think Percy and Jason are putting each other on a deathbed from single strikes.
So yes, Their striking strength should be much lower than their Durability. But again, Celestial Bronze and Imperial gold make that irrelevant.
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@Barry
Let me break this down for you quickly.
If Percy was that much weaker than Iapetus, it would the equivalent of a 2-Year old trying to push a professional sumo wrestler who's slightly off balance.
It doesn't make sense.
You're using the AoE Fallacy again. Very rarely do characters affect the environment with their physical blows despite being able to harm much more durable beings.
You're ignoring how he caved in the face of a weakened Giant with sheer physical force.
Let me break this down for you quickly.
If Percy was that much weaker than Iapetus, it would the equivalent of a 2-Year old trying to push a professional sumo wrestler who's slightly off balance.
It doesn't make sense.
You're using the AoE Fallacy again. Very rarely do characters affect the environment with their physical blows despite being able to harm much more durable beings.
You're ignoring how he caved in the face of a weakened Giant with sheer physical force.
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12 Year Old Percy broke Mortal Ares' leg.
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Yeah, forgot the specifications, but it shows that Wall level Percy isn't real.
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@Reppuzan
That's a bad example and it doesn't say he was "slightly" off balance. You have a vastly weakened Titan, further weakened by his injuries who was pulled into the River leathe because he was already hurt and off balance. Rick basically spells it out for you.
Yes or no, despite how old we are and stronger we are, an 8 year old can pull us down if we are off balance enough? It makes perfect sense.
And I'm not using an Aoe argument, lol, seriously. Without Celestial Bronze or Imperial Gold, I don't see Percy and other demigods who scale Directly to him putting each other in those states with strength alone that tbe explosion caused. This is definitely the case if Percy vs Jason is anything to go by, i.e, him blasting Percy with lightning while bloodlusted.
Percy's Durability >= Mt. St. Helens Explosion >>>>> Jasons Bolt >>>>> Jasons Physical Strikes = Percy's Physical Strikes
^Is that not what we read?
That's a bad example and it doesn't say he was "slightly" off balance. You have a vastly weakened Titan, further weakened by his injuries who was pulled into the River leathe because he was already hurt and off balance. Rick basically spells it out for you.
Yes or no, despite how old we are and stronger we are, an 8 year old can pull us down if we are off balance enough? It makes perfect sense.
And I'm not using an Aoe argument, lol, seriously. Without Celestial Bronze or Imperial Gold, I don't see Percy and other demigods who scale Directly to him putting each other in those states with strength alone that tbe explosion caused. This is definitely the case if Percy vs Jason is anything to go by, i.e, him blasting Percy with lightning while bloodlusted.
Percy's Durability >= Mt. St. Helens Explosion >>>>> Jasons Bolt >>>>> Jasons Physical Strikes = Percy's Physical Strikes
^Is that not what we read?
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@Barry
But at the same time even the weakened Titans posed a significant threat to the Gods. I find it hard to believe that Percy wouldn't be remotely comparable given his feats.
If you can find a video of an 8-Year Old pushing over a heavyweight sumo wrestler, be my guest.
Smashed weakened Polybotes' face in, once again, with brute force and Terminus's head. You like to ignore this.
I never agreed to that scaling system.
Jason was also able to throw Porphyrion, the bane of Zeus, off a cliff with his powers. I highly doubt that any of Jason's abilities are less powerful than Percy's.
But at the same time even the weakened Titans posed a significant threat to the Gods. I find it hard to believe that Percy wouldn't be remotely comparable given his feats.
If you can find a video of an 8-Year Old pushing over a heavyweight sumo wrestler, be my guest.
Smashed weakened Polybotes' face in, once again, with brute force and Terminus's head. You like to ignore this.
I never agreed to that scaling system.
Jason was also able to throw Porphyrion, the bane of Zeus, off a cliff with his powers. I highly doubt that any of Jason's abilities are less powerful than Percy's.
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Barry, you just proved yourself wrong, now you are arguing that Percy's durability >>>>>>>> His AP, just to act like it doesn't scale when he faces of against numerous opponents that can harm him.
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Ok, I concede so long as 6-C isn't scaled to their stats.
And @Reppuzan
The Titans weren't a threat from a battle stand point. The only threat they posed based on feats were attacking and destroying Olympus while they were busy with Typhon.
Edit: Note, I was referring to the gods. The titans werent really a threat battle wise towards the gods.
I wish Percy accepted immortality, I wanted to see God Percy vs Ares ƒÿó
And @Reppuzan
The Titans weren't a threat from a battle stand point. The only threat they posed based on feats were attacking and destroying Olympus while they were busy with Typhon.
Edit: Note, I was referring to the gods. The titans werent really a threat battle wise towards the gods.
I wish Percy accepted immortality, I wanted to see God Percy vs Ares ƒÿó
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We should probably close this I didnt even read those replies at all
Repuzzan, Respect has to be given to your patience.
Unless we have any other issues we can bring up with the percy jackson verse?
Repuzzan, Respect has to be given to your patience.
Unless we have any other issues we can bring up with the percy jackson verse?
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