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Rimuru vs Arceus: Redux

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"Speed: Omnipresent (Exists beyond traditional space, time and matter. Its consciousness exists all across space and time)"

From Arceus's profile

Also Nedge you posted your previous comment three times
 
Zeifyl said:
Arceus being acausal and omnipresent through time completely nulls precognition. And depending on how the Information Analysis works, it may be blocked by Arceus' insane mental defenses. In addition, Arceus also has precognition, and Rimuru attempting Void Manipulation would, as a result, be met with a Power Nullification.
Click to expand...
Omnipresence does not negate Precognition. Arceus would have Acausality (Type 1) according the past CRT: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1900154 as he is still subject to Causality Manipulation and this does not negated Precognition either.
 
Overlord775 said:
"Speed: Omnipresent (Exists beyond traditional space, time and matter. Its consciousness exists all across space and time)"
From Arceus's profile

Also Nedge you posted your previous comment three times
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean much, au contraire, being omnipresent is a big weakness since one is closer, an opponent can hit it easily.

Rimuru Tempest got Space-Time Manipulation (His attacks exceed time and space to strike his targets
 
It's a big weakness against an opponent that has the range to actually deal with it. And in this case, Rimuru does not. You need to multiply Rimuru's range by several millions for Rimuru to have a chance to beat Arceus. As it is right now, Rimuru can't even inflict the equivalent of a mosquito bite.
 
Overlord775 said:
Nedge1000 said:
No, being omnipresent mean you are also in range as well. It is not like. Rimuru Tempest's Non-Physical Interaction feats mean he can Arceus's consciousness anyway.
Click to expand...
Arceus existed before the concept of consciousness existed.
He doesn't have a mind
Click to expand...
He does have a mind; he even have shield to protect against mind attack on his profile. Forcefield Creation (Protected by a constant shield that protects it from invasive abilities such as Mind Attacks as well as ordinary attacks, can actively create them itself) which Rimuru Tempest can easily bypass with abilities like Void Manipulation which he could easily erase Arceus's entire being with it too.
 
Arceus existed before the concept of consciousness existed.
He doesn't have a mind

He does have a mind; he even have shield to protect against mind attack on his profile. Forcefield Creation (Protected by a constant shield that protects it from invasive abilities such as Mind Attacks as well as ordinary attacks, can actively create them itself) which Rimuru Tempest can easily bypass with abilities like Void Manipulation which he could easily erase Arceus's entire being with it too.

Again, Void Manipulation doesn't mean shit if you can't get your target in range. Rimuru has to be able to blast something through an entire sea of universes to even reach the true Arceus's location. Also, Arceus's preincog is likely preventing a remote "void nuke" from touching him.

EDIT: since Nedge casted vote without any clear agreements within the discussion, I'm holding vote for now, but if I were to cast it now in this Redux thread (which I kinda dislike doing in Redux threads depending on experiences from an older version), I vote Arceus for Overlord, Zeifyl, and NeoZex's explanations.
 
He does not have blast nuke if Arceus is in range.

Omnipresence is the property of being present everywhere, whenever and nowhere at the same time, referring to an unbounded presence. The ability lets you to be everywhere at once that is, at every point in space during a given instant. Some characters are Omnipresent within a single universe, while others are Omnipresent on a Multiversal or even higher scale.

Omnipresence used to be good if a character is non-corporeal but now with so many with Non-Physical Interaction like Rimuru Tempest, it is actually big weakness also.
 
Overlord775 said:
To erase Arceus he would need to affect him in it's entirity and he doesn't have the range to do it
Click to expand...
He is in range via definition.
 
Nedge1000 said:
He does not have blast nuke if Arceus is in range.

Omnipresence is the property of being present everywhere, whenever and nowhere at the same time, referring to an unbounded presence. The ability lets you to be everywhere at once that is, at every point in space during a given instant. Some characters are Omnipresent within a single universe, while others are Omnipresent on a Multiversal or even higher scale.

Omnipresence used to be good if a character is non-corporeal but now with so many Non-Physical Interaction like Rimuru Tempest, it is actually big weakness also.
Click to expand...
If Rimuru has something that can literally wipe out an entire multiverse in one fell swoop, then yes, he can probably win. Even then, it depends on how he'd use that attack or ability.
 
Arceus should be resistant to existence erasure, as Palkia and Dialga can erase universes but cannot erase each other.
 
One quick note: when Arceus appeared in that 15th Pokémon movie, it's likely not the same Arceus, or specifically, the same physical avatar from the one in the 12th movie. You can also say that the Arceus "avatar" in movie 12 was customized to be talk to humans.

Safe to say, Rimuru will have to get through a f***ton of physical avatars first.
 
Nedge1000 said:
He does not have blast nuke if Arceus is in range.
Omnipresence is the property of being present everywhere, whenever and nowhere at the same time, referring to an unbounded presence. The ability lets you to be everywhere at once that is, at every point in space during a given instant. Some characters are Omnipresent within a single universe, while others are Omnipresent on a Multiversal or even higher scale.

Omnipresence used to be good if a character is non-corporeal but now with so many with Non-Physical Interaction like Rimuru Tempest, it is actually big weakness also.
Click to expand...
Arceus is in range, yes. But Arceus is also out of range. As well as way out of range. The "in range" part is so tiny, compared to the true Arceus, that erasing it equals less than a mosquito bite for Arceus.
 
Arceus is not the multiverse anyway. it seems like many arguments are invalid because Arceus is in range by definition. Also, Arceus regen is only Low-mid, large damage from void manipulation will kill him anyway.

Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job.
 
Aren't the members of the CT supposed to have large size type 9?

Arceus' immortality was supposed to be reclassified that way iirc
 
Nedge1000 said:
Arceus is not the multiverse anyway. it seems like many arguments are invalid because Arceus is in range by definition.
Click to expand...
His profile says he's omnipresent throught ALL OF SPACE AND TIME

And the area Rimuru can affect is smaller than a sand grain compared to the size of the Pokémon multiverse
 
Nedge1000 said:
Arceus is not the multiverse anyway. it seems like many arguments are invalid because Arceus is in range by definition. Also, Arceus regen is only Low-mid, large damage from void manipulation will kill him anyway.
Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job.
Click to expand...
Arceus is not the multiverse, no. Arceus is WAY bigger than the multiverse.

Yes, Arceus is in range by definition. But by definition, Arceus is also out of range. And the amount of Arceus Rimuru can affect is easily fixed by even Low Regenerationn. Low-Mid is overkill for this.
 
anZeifyl said:
Nedge1000 said:
Arceus is not the multiverse anyway. it seems like many arguments are invalid because Arceus is in range by definition. Also, Arceus regen is only Low-mid, large damage from void manipulation will kill him anyway.
Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job.
Click to expand...
Arceus is not the multiverse, no. Arceus is WAY bigger than the multiverse.
Yes, Arceus is in range by definition. But by definition, Arceus is also out of range. And the amount of Arceus Rimuru can affect is easily fixed by even Low Regenerationn. Low-Mid is overkill for this.
Click to expand...
the amount of Arceus- he does NOT have TYPE 9 Immortality anymore so no avatar or amount of Arceus argument.

Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job regardless as Arceus still conceptually in range also.
 
Actually since Rimuru's Conceptual Manipulation is only typed 3, the concept he can manipulate is actually bound by their reality, so they cannot go beyond something the size of their own multiverse.

All of Arceus expands through a multiverse that's way larger than Rimuru's.
 
Nedge1000 said:
anZeifyl said:
Nedge1000 said:
Arceus is not the multiverse anyway. it seems like many arguments are invalid because Arceus is in range by definition. Also, Arceus regen is only Low-mid, large damage from void manipulation will kill him anyway.
Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job.
Click to expand...
Arceus is not the multiverse, no. Arceus is WAY bigger than the multiverse.
Yes, Arceus is in range by definition. But by definition, Arceus is also out of range. And the amount of Arceus Rimuru can affect is easily fixed by even Low Regenerationn. Low-Mid is overkill for this.
Click to expand...
the amount of Arceus- he does NOT have TYPE 9 Immortality anymore so no avatar or amount of Arceus argument.
Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job regardless as Arceus still conceptually in range also.
Click to expand...
Okay, let's explain this another way, since you seem to misunderstand.

Imagine that someone used Void Manipulation on a single one of your hairs. You aren't dead, since most of you aren't affected. Just that one hair.

For the same reason, Arceus doesn't die from Rimuru using Void or Concept Manipulation on it. Because there is just so much of it that is out of range, that the amount of it in range is irrelevant.

Type 9 Immortality isn't relevant when we aren't talking about avatars, when we say amount. What we are saying is that Arceus is so big, that Rimuru can never hit anything more than a (figuratively) infinitesimal fraction of its true body. Not enough to deal damage.
 
Nedge1000 said:
the amount of Arceus- he does NOT have TYPE 9 Immortality anymore so no avatar or amount of Arceus argument.

Conceptual Manipulation should also do the job regardless as Arceus still conceptually in range also.
Click to expand...
Iwaguaime doesn't have type 9 either and Arceus works just like her

And in both cases Rimuru can't defeat them because of their omnipresence
 
Nedge1000 said:
DMB 1 said:
Ok, can Arceus actually take him down?
Click to expand...
Nope, especially when Arceus's Conceptual Manipulation feat is creation. Rimuru Tempest destroyed and created Concepts.
Click to expand...
doesn't equal "he can beat Arceus immediately". it also depends on the max range of Rimuru's conceptual manipulation. Can he reach through countless universes to get to the true Arceus? I'd doubt it because Rimuru's conceptual manipulation is limited by the size of the verse he resides in
 
Conceptual manipulation is bound by the scale shown no matter the type.

Type 2/3/4 concept manip that works on 30 universes wouldn't work on something encompassing a million universes.

If it's type 1 same story but the scale is outerversal
 
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