Rikudo Madara Keys & Tier Fixing

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

"Getting close" to Hagoromo doesn't necessarily make him 5-B.

Yes it does. Also, if he wasn't Naruto and Sasuke would have one shot him. Also the difference between High 6A and 5B is massive. If Hagoromo wasn't afraid why make the comparison statement anyway?

 

[Damage3245]

Only if we assume Hagoromo's statement to mean that Madara becoming the host of the 10-Tails is instantly Planet level.

Wasn't that feat going to be recalced anyway due to something about the Moon's hollowness?

> Also, if he wasn't Naruto and Sasuke would have one shot him.

Why?

 

[AstralKing7]

No because Madara fought Naruto and Sasuke. With your logic if Madara didn't get a significant increase from the Shinju then his first form still scales anyway.

You literally roped yourself into that

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Only if we assume Hagoromo's statement to mean that Madara becoming the host of the 10-Tails is instantly Planet level.

Wasn't that feat going to be recalced anyway due to something about the Moon's hollowness?

> Also, if he wasn't Naruto and Sasuke would have one shot him.

Why?

Because here both Naruto and Sasuke after the Hago power up are 5B. By powerscaling either he scales to Hago or to them.

@Astral Hago talks about first form Madara in the image without counting the Shinjuu increase...

 

[Damage3245]

Naruto and Sasuke receive part of their scaling from Madara in the first place.

Anyway, this is pointless until the calcs are fixed.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Naruto and Sasuke receive part of their scaling from Madara in the first place.

Anyway, this is pointless until the calcs are fixed.

I find the Shinjuu calc irrelevant when we have a statement like that for Madara's scaling. Also Hago gave them the power to stop first form Madara...

Again if there was no comparison why Kishi made Hago say that statement in the first place?

 

[Rocker1189]

Wasn't that feat going to be recalced anyway due to something about the Moon's hollowness?

Err no its not, because the moon did not start off hollow, we know this based on Naruto and sasuke's own moon feat. Not that it matter that would also soon be recalced with a lower timeframe, since the current one is a huge low ball.

 

[Damage3245]

Eh, let's save that discussion for a later date. I currently believe the current calc is insufficient either way.

 

[Rocker1189]

I mean there is no discussion to have about the moon, that is literally the case, not that it matters since again the one Naruto and Sasuke did would be revised with a timeframe that makes more sense.

Also if you mean the shinju tree, that is entirely dependent on whether calc members believe yours is better or mine is.

 

[M3X_2.0]

If you think Chibaku Tensei is hollow than this is the peak of this whole fanfiction

 

[Damage3245]

> I mean there is no discussion to have about the moon, that is literally the case, not that it matters since again the one Naruto and Sasuke did would be revised with a timeframe that makes more sense.

But Naruto and Sasuke didn't send theirs into orbit?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

They didn't, the timeframe is for the creation of the moon.

 

[Rocker1189]

But Naruto and Sasuke didn't send theirs into orbit?

whichwould also be taken into account and was still not my point.

 

[Damage3245]

If you think Chibaku Tensei is hollow than this is the peak of this whole fanfictio

Let's not be rude.

I was going off a hazy memory where there was a discussion about the hollowness of the Moon and how it affected a calc - but I think that was for Toneri's feat, not Hagoromo's.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Yes, the hollowness is for toneri's feat.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hagoromo created a full moon, and after the Otsutsuki decide to live there, they make the moon being hollow to live inside. Rocker even calced the % of it

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I agree with ╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬× .

Also,the render with Limbo looks cool.

 

[NotCensored]

ppl in this thread really tryna get Madara to Hagoromo Levels even tho the version of Madara the statement was used on went on to get fondled by Naruto and Sasuke in 1v1's when they only have 50% of Hags ghostly goo chakra lmao

 

[AstralKing7]

U obviously didn't understand the arguments.

 

[NotCensored]

U obviously didn't understand the arguments.

i understood the argument perfectly fine it's based on one off hand statement from Hagoromo that makes no sense with further feats, Naruto literally not trying in base SPSM basically 1 shot that verison of Madara, an amped verison of that Madara got blitzed by Rinnegan Sasuke and chopped in half Might Guy style, Naruto's shadow clones stalemating Madara's Limbo Clones (who're equal to him) in H2H, Naruto dodging his fastest attack casually while hindered, Naruto and Sasuke teaming up for literally one second nearly sealed him and they basically would have won the fight right there if Madara didn't have the ass pull ability to swap places with his clones out of nowhere that moment also being the only time they 1v2'd Madara they were taking turns up until that point etc.

Not to mention the statement is more "he's trying to get close to me" rather than him actually getting closer many other translations confirm this to be the case Viz has a bad rep with translations after all shouldn't be a surprise bottom line 1 Eyed Madara getting close to Hagoromo makes no sense when even 50% of his chakra from his ghost made Teen Naruto and Sasuke stronger than that verison of Madara mentioned.

 

[AstralKing7]

Madara didn't get stronger after absorbing the Shinju tree by that much man that's how I know u didn't understand the arguments made. Plus the statement made about him and his own feat.

 

[Omimi]

ppl in this thread really tryna get Madara to Hagoromo Levels even tho the version of Madara the statement was used on went on to get fondled by Naruto and Sasuke in 1v1's when they only have 50% of Hags ghostly goo chakra lmao

naruto can even take on kaguya who is stronger hagoromo

Madara didn't get stronger after absorbing the Shinju tree by that much man that's how I know u didn't understand the arguments made. Plus the statement made about him and his own feat.

agree that Madara didn't get stronger after absorbing the Shinju tree

jubito proved that he didnt get any weaker from releasing the Shinju tree

and absorbing the Shinju tree make juubi jin stronger is unfounded excluding immortality

 

[MyGod101]

Let be fair here...when Obito Released the Shinju Tree it had just absorbed BSM Naruto's Chakra+Some of BM Minato's chakra+ lowballing couple 1000s Shinobi who Naruto made 4X Stronger.


Saying that Madara didn't get any stronger from the Shinju Tree is a silly argument.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Let be fair here...when Obito Released the Shinju Tree it had just absorbed BSM Naruto's Chakra+Some of BM Minato's chakra+ lowballing couple 1000s Shinobi who Naruto made 4X Stronger.

Saying that Madara didn't get any stronger from the Shinju Tree is a silly argument.

He did but not by a large margin.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

And at the same time Obito pulled enough chakra from Juubidara to create TSBs.

 

[AstralKing7]

Lol

 

[Might_Path]

yeah forget about it , i forget why i left the wiki in the first place its because it doesn't let me post any long paragraph as it always says "An ErRoR OcCuRrEd WhIlE pOsTiNg ThE MeSsAgE" so after i wrote it and rewrote it again and again trying solving the problem , i changed the photos to links , i make it shorter and it still say the same thing , but who cares ? ah and for the messages that i deleted its was an insulting for the wiki and everyone into it bc i got pissed of but i am okay now

 

[MyGod101]

Let be fair here...when Obito Released the Shinju Tree it had just absorbed BSM Naruto's Chakra+Some of BM Minato's chakra+ lowballing couple 1000s Shinobi who Naruto made 4X Stronger.

Saying that Madara didn't get any stronger from the Shinju Tree is a silly argument.

He did but not by a large margin.

That is not a fair Assement. Sure it didn't boost him as much as Madara getting his second Rinnegan. However, it still was a big boost, because BSM Naruto+ BM Minato together was chipping away at JuubiObito's TSB.


It wasn't just them the God Tree Absorb either it took 1000+ Shinobi that Naruto boosted at least 4 x Stronger than their standard powers.

 

[MrKerf]

Mmm, bump?

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

It wasn't just them the God Tree Absorb either it took 1000+ Shinobi that Naruto boosted at least 4 x Stronger than their standard powers.

I remember this. I still beleive Pre Shinjuu and Post Shinkuu should have different keys or a 5B key. 5B Naruto said that he will defeat him together with Sasuke. Not alone.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

There is a bit of a Misconception here. Kaguya isn't weaker than before she was sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura. A 5-B character can still take on 2 other 5-B characters around the same level as them depending on skill. It's completely an arbitrary assertion that Revived Kaguya is weaker than 1000 years prior, when all she's missing is 50% Kurama and the Chakra she was absorbing from Infinite Tsukiyomi was stated to be stronger than the Incomplete Juubi in the first place (Stated Here)

So, if anything, Revived Kaguya > Kaguya 1000 Years Prior. Trying to extrapolate scalings for Hagoromo and such to get to Madara is extremely flawed and faulty. Even then, Hagoromo was only talking about Power Sets. The Databook about Madara asserts that: "With Both Rinnegan and the power of the Ten Tails, Madara demonstrates the true power of the Sage of Six Paths", or whatever, which supports that notion and in that same line about "Approaching Him"'. He even cites Madara is after Kaguya's power which is depicted as the RinneSharingan, not her literal level of power. For that reason, Madara shouldn't be scaled to Hagoromo. It's just referring to power sets.

Madara really shouldn't have 4 Keys. Obito demonstrated that releasing the Shinju doesn't impact you or your chakra so him absorbing it shouldn't afford him any boosts.

In regards to Dual Rinnegan and RinneSharingan, they don't increase Madara's regular Ninjutsu or Physical Capabilities. Only his Doujutsu.

• Dual-Rinnegan Madara's Doujutsu is 5x stronger / More Effective than One-Eyed Madara's.

• RinneSharingan by itself is considered a Rinnegan and thus should stack ontop of Dual Rinnegan Madara as its the equivalent of having 2 sets of Rinnegan.

 

[Damage3245]

@TFO; I think I'm a little bit out of the loop, but can I get a reminder on where the 5x stronger bit comes from? Is that just from him increasing his number of Limbo clones?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TFO; I think I'm a little bit out of the loop, but can I get a reminder on where the 5x stronger bit comes from? Is that just from him increasing his number of Limbo clones?

Yes. Madara stated This to Obito. With Madara only having 1 Rinnegan and being able to produce 1 Limbo Clone and later 4 extra in addition to the one Naruto Sealed. This illustrates that 1 eye only gives the user 1/5th of their capabilities.

It's the only gauge we have.

 

[Mindovin]

@Damage

Iirc, 1 eye 1 Limbo = 2 eye 5(?) Limbo so he is 4X or 5X more powerful. Which I don't persoanally agree.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Damage
Iirc, 1 eye 1 Limbo = 2 eye 5(?) Limbo so he is 4X or 5X more powerful, which I don't agree.

You cannot disagree. The Dojutsu's Capacity was increased by 5. This would scale across the board.

Clearly this isn't a 1+1 = 2 scenario.

 

[Mindovin]

@TFO

Did his chakra increased or it's potency? At best you can argue that he channel more chakra into his eyes to make his existing eye techs more powerful/faster or they become more powerful and faster like Kamui or use new techs like Susano'o.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TFO
Did his chakra increased or it's potency? At best you can argue that he channel more chakra into his eyes to make his existing eye techs more powerful/faster or they become more powerful and faster like Kamui or use new techs like Susano'o.

Now you're making wild assumptions. Dojutsu Chakra and Regular Chakra are not one in the same as stated by Tobirama (In this sca). This is why we don't scale users Regular Ninjutsu to Dojutsu AP, like Susanoo and Ama, etc.

That Doujutsu Chakra for Sharingan at Least, gets more Potent, yes, but asude from that nothing else is stated. We do know special Chakra (Biju, Six Paths, Nature Energy) does increase the power of Doujutsu, but otherwise, nothing else is stated.

I'm not making assumptions about the process, only stating what's occured.

Facts:

• Madara could only create 1 Limbo with 1 Rinnegan.

• Madara could can create 5 with 2 Rinnegan.

• There is no indication Madara did or did not attempt to Enhance his Doujutsu through Chakra Control.

So, my stance is based on facts without theory crafting or making assumptions.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.