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Revising Tiamat (and possibly others?)

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I'm fine listening to both sides of the equation, but if the cosmology has distinct definitions for what constitutes a "World" and a "planet" we'd still need to look outside of strangefake for feats/statements.
 
Also, just to clarify, I have no comment on the discussions on Kiara, as I have neither played JP FGO nor played Extra, so I'm not really in a position to discuss it. I'm only speaking of feats for Ea.
 
My main point is that just because World =/= Planet doesn't mean destroying the world is unquantifiable. See Nirn in Elder Scrolls not being a planet at all but being perfectly quantifiable
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
My main point is that just because World =/= Planet doesn't mean destroying the world is unquantifiable. See Nirn in Elder Scrolls not being a planet at all but being perfectly quantifiable
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I don't think this is a problem with anyone. The problem is do we take Ea's hype over showings, which have never matched up to similar stuff like Loptr Laegjarn, which has permanently destroyed the realm of the Norse gods, which is another World similar to but smaller than the World of Human Awareness in current modern Nasu times (this is due to it covering Scandinavia alone).
 
Ramesses the Sun King said:
Tiamat in terms of raw power is stated to be powerful enough to fight Aliens and easily beat full power Babylonia Quetz. The Lion King also stated that Tiamat is stronger than Goetia.

Kiara stated that Goetia was much stronger than her in raw power as her shtick is mental and soul hax.

"See, didn't I tell you? Everything's been in the palm of my hand from the start.

Err, Demon God King Goetia…-san, was it? Yes, Goetia was certainly a Beast possessing great power.

But that was only in terms of "strength". He was a Beast who could only destroy.

My power is weak and still immature as a Beast, but human consciousness is quite fickle and fragile—

No matter what kind of intelligent lifeform they are, beings with wisdom always possess "desire", and my fingers can grasp their souls.

—Any being that possesses desire cannot match me. Now then—

I shall devour you now, Gudao-san. Ah, how young and juicy—"
Click to expand...
With Ramesses words I think Quetz needs a major downgrade despite Tiamat being powerful than her and Quetz scale is higher than Tiamat.
 
To explain to everyone: Tiamat is the main focus. Ea is brought up as it is from where the scaling chain begins for Tiamat through BB and Kiara (making Kiara relevant as well).
 
I just want to point out that iirc strange fake says the '''world''' was destroyed and remade 7 times not '''The World'''
 
Strange Fake does no such thing and Prisma Illya is per the author's words not applicable to the rest of the Nasuverse. This is not how you show yourself as credible in this regard.
 
Paul Frank said:
I just want to point out that iirc strange fake says the world was destroyed and remade 7 times not The World
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The kanji used is still referring to the World, and it's from the POV of Shamhat, who has no idea on how Nasu metaphysics works.
 
Kiara is not weaker than Goetia my god.... unless you want to bump Goetia up to 4-B. Heaven's Hole scales to Saver, I already posted evidence, but we need to focus on Tiamat and not Kiara. She's not what this discussion is about.
 
Goetia being 4-B isn't actually that far-fetched considering he had a pocket reality with stars in the distance that collapsed on his death.
 
Here's how it goes

Full beast Kiara > Goetia > Immature Beast Kiara > Heaven's Hole.
 
Kiara herself says that she doesn't have the power, as a Beast, equal to Goetia. She can only mindhax you due to you possesing desire.

Kiara as a Beast is weaker than CCC Kiara, as per FGO Kiara's profile. This is importanr to Tiamat as Kiara is being rated as 5-A physically, despite that bever being the case.
 
Kiara never becomes a Beast in CCC, only in FGO after Zepar's experimentation. There is a difference in scale and abilities.
 
Again even in fgo kiara grows big enough to dwarf Jupiter during her np

This is also not the only case of her growing big enough to dwarf planets so I dont think it can be considered just visuals
 
I need to go offline so I can't stay any further, but yes, CCC Kiara needs an upgrade.
 
Every case has involved a gameplay animation. In FGO, in the actual story and Boss Fight, she's just big enough to hold people in her hand. Hardly Planet size.
 
Sera EX said:
@Solacis

She was incomplete, if she was complete she'd be superior to Goetia. Hence why I put "Full Beast Kiara"
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No, the problem is you are conflating Demonic Bodhisattva to Beast, when the two categories are defined as separate types of beings, since Kiara can become one or the other. This is all explained in her GO materials.

Well, goodbye for now.
 
Has this quote been brought up?

"Noble Phantasms

Star of Genesis Separating Heaven and Earth -- Enuma Elish
Rank: EX
Type: Anti-world Noble Phantasm
Range: 1-99
Maximum Targets: 1000 persons

The sword that cuts and divides the World, with output matching or exceeding that of Artoria's Excalibur. Its power will further increase with the support of Noble Phantasms within Gate of Babylon. More correctly, "Sword of Rupture ― Ea" is the Noble Phantasm, while "Enuma Elish" is the state within which the Sword of Rupture unleashes its maximum output. By generating wind pressure strata, the attack crushes the enemies by simulating spatial rends. In addition, the names "Sword of Rupture ― Ea" and "Enuma Elish" are all given by Gilgamesh. They are thought to be references to the Great God Ea (Enki) of the Mesopotamian and Babylonian myths, and the Babylonian creation myth Enuma Elish.

Caption: The ultimate sword that cannot be duplicated by Unlimited Blade Work. Gilgamesh calls it "something that knows the hellish planet before Heaven and Earth were two."

Caption: The three cylindrical blades spin in different directions, generating air pressure strata. Its power will not be neutralized even when colliding with Excalibur."

http://completematerial.pbworks.com...ervants of the Fifth Holy Grail War#Gilgamesh
 
Sera EX said:
Kiara is not weaker than Goetia my god.... unless you want to bump Goetia up to 4-B. Heaven's Hole scales to Saver, I already posted evidence, but we need to focus on Tiamat and not Kiara. She's not what this discussion is about.
Click to expand...
Yes she is. She even says so herself as I quoted above. Beast Kiara isn't 4-B so Goetia wouldn't get upgraded to 4-B just because she scales above her. Kiara is relevant to the discussion because Tiamat is equal or above Goetia who scales above Beast Kiara.

"Here's how it goes

Full beast Kiara > Goetia > Immature Beast Kiara > Heaven's Hole."

As others have already pointed out, Heaven's Hole is above Beast Kiara according to Mats V and the entry you posted which stated that Heaven's Hole is close to Saver's level. Goetia and Full Beast Kiara being above Heaven's Hole and thus Saver doesn't make sense either, as that would mean that Solomon and Gilgamesh would be above Saver and that Kiara is far above someone she needs a special skill to fight evenly with.
 
Kiara being comparable, or stronger in a sense to Goetia, is due to the range and potency of her mind hax related stuff. That's what Kiara's strong point is, what she does, ******* with the mind and the heart. Goetia is the one that uses pure power to overwhelm, and something to that effect is even said in the mats.
 
I would imagine it was because a small comment when everyone was typing a lot just didn't garner much attention.

Plus, that's entirely wrong. It's not said in her profile, it's said in the mats that explain further information on the Servants. Do you think we know Ushi's other potential NPs from her profile?
 
Why do people keep addressing replies that have already been debunked with no counter argument? That's the most counterproductive approach to a discussion ever.
 
Sera EX said:
Why do people keep addressing replies that have already been debunked with no counter argument? That's the most counterproductive approach to a discussion ever.
Click to expand...
Thats how every single crt on this site goes though unless everyone just says they agree with the op
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I would imagine it was because a small comment when everyone was typing a lot just didn't garner much attention.
Click to expand...
I mean it was decently large, but yeah ic what u mean; not everyone's gonna see every single comment that gets posted.

LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Plus, that's entirely wrong. It's not said in her profile, it's said in the mats that explain further information on the Servants. Do you think we know Ushi's other potential NPs from her profile?
Click to expand...
Yeah it was stated in Alter Ego's profile within the mats. That's what the mats are: big books of servant profiles.
 
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