Revising Tiamat (and possibly others?)

[RegisNex1232]

Gil beating up Kiara.

You mean Hakuno's buffed up servant beating a restrained Kiara who also isn't fully said to be Planet level.

So you want to cherrypick statements and feats while ignoring context and WoG. And then wonder why people like Ram and Qlipoth don't consider your opinions in these threads.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kiara was weakened by BB and her alter egos using a portion of the authority of the Moon Cell and Gil was using energy from the moon cell core

Scales to his full power and Kiara has a 5-A feat in that weakened form.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Kiara has no feats beyond being so far beyond your buffed up Servant that BB and the Alter egos had to continually hold her back in the fight for you to have a chance. This is hardly scaling for Planet Level Ea.

 

[JBennett]

Scales to his full power and Kiara has a 5-A feat in that weakened form.

You mean when she's larger then Eather for a whole 10 seconds and then instantaniously returns to normal size to attack the others? The same attack that any other servant you pick can withstand even with out Mystic Codes?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Other servants withstanding the attack is game mechanics for the sake of a playable boss fight.

And yes, she grows larger than the Earth. Freaking deal with it.

And Ea was literally going to destroy the planet in Strange Fake and is described as a planetary threat multiple times, it will absolutely not get downgraded because you insist.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The World as defined by human perceptions is honestly larger than a normal planet and destroying it would be more impressive, also.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Other servants withstanding the attack is game mechanics for the sake of a playable boss fight.

And yes, she grows larger than the Earth. Freaking deal with it.

And Ea was literally going to destroy the planet in Strange Fake and is described as a planetary threat multiple times, it will absolutely not get downgraded because you insist.

Right, so game mechanics come in now but not for Kiara's attack? Cherrypicking at it's finest.

No, she doesn't. You deal with that.

You have zero proof beyond deliberate misinterpretation of certain terms. This is hardly evidence of anything.

 

[Escanor998]

And destroying the current layer because Ea holds the concept of "Truth" and being able to show the bare face of the planet without layers is hax (as the sword was there before Gaia was even born (and before the layers were created) (Gaia was born after the planet was completely stabilized) ,it knows the truth of the planet and is able to reveal this teaching upon others, or at least Gil says so), not AP, its firepower was directly stated to be slightly superior to excalibur

 

[JBennett]

Alright Mat, any other feats?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Game Mechanics as in health bars and damage points? Yes.

The attack itself as shown in a non-playable animation? That's not game mechanics, I would advise you to check the definition.

She does, as has been tirelessly explained through quotes given to you which you always ignore.

@Escanor998

By feats it is far above. That statement doesn't matter.

 

[RegisNex1232]

No, she doesn't. This has never been mentioned in any quotes and requires deliberate misunderstanding of the verse itself. Aka it is essentially wanking to think of Ea being Planet level or that Kiara actually grows despite not attacking anyone in that size.

Ea at best has matched Excalibur and Enkidu's Enuma Elish. There is nothing else suggesting Planet level for it.

 

[Escanor998]

Mat, First you disregard WoG, in universe statements and material books and now you're saying that even Gil, it's owner and master (and by your definition that you've said way above, that he's one of the ******* masterminds of nasuverse) now just doesn't know how his most trusted weapon(next only to enkidu) works

Great, Just Great

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Regis

Yes, they explain the scale and that she can literally use the planet as a sex toy and attribute the scale of the attack to her power.

Ea would literally have blown up the planet in Strange/Fake and when it crashed with Enkidu in it it caused a planet-sized shockwave. There's no ambiguity there.

 

[Escanor998]

Game Mechanics as in health bars and damage points? Yes.
The attack itself as shown in a non-playable animation? That's not game mechanics, I would advise you to check the definition.

She does, as has been tirelessly explained through quotes given to you which you always ignore.

@Escanor998

By feats it is far above. That statement doesn't matter.

Angra Mainyu is an Authority that enables her to melt all the souls and minds of the living on earth and use all of them for pleasure, her grabbing the planet is just a metaphorical representation of what happens

 

[Escanor998]

Fate Extra material:

Sessyoin Kiara

• Height: 166cm
• Weight: 53kg?
• Blood type: A
• Birthday: 4th June
• Image colour: White (pink)
• Talents: Counseling (In a sexual sense)
• Likes: Bean cake, Fairy tale, Humans
• Dislike: Tsundere men
• Enemy: Saver

Planet sized... Right...

 

[RegisNex1232]

They never said that she literally uses the planet, this is a deliberate misreading of the text.

Ea would've at best destroyed the Human World of Awareness. No planet busting mentioned in the scene.

 

[JBennett]

Even if that was the case Mat Servant Gil withstanding an attack from Kiara should be an outlier then, Servant Gil has shown no feats of durability of Planet Level in previous instalments and it has been shown regulary that AP =/= Dura for Servants. And this is a Servant Version becuase Extra takes place in the near future and not in the distant past so he can't be alive. And "Full power" simply means he's takeing the battle seriously, it doesn't mean he's spontatiously more powerful.

And to start off before you say it, no it doesn't matter if Ea was at Planet level in Strange Fake because he never actually tooken an attack at that Level. I have read that battle many times at at no point does he take an attack at that level, that has nothing to do with Enkidu's Enuma since that simply scales to Ea.

 

[Escanor998]

Actually, it would be an outlier to "Full Power Gil or Prime Gil", because when using the Mythological Formal Wear he gets buffed to BB's level by draining energy from the Moon Cell's core

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Avalon is mentioned to be a texture.

Avalon is an overlapping earth.

Avalon is 6th dimensional

Astolfo's Noble Phantasm description directly states the "Reverse Side Of the World" is an alternate dimension. This dimension is the home of phantasmal species. Which is directly stated to be the "Reverse Side of the World." This is all directly stated in his description here.

This is "The Reverse side of the World " description.

____

As i said earlier there is countless statements of the Gods existing in a higher dimension , and being a higher existence.

Ishtar explains that During the age of Gods. The underworld was literally a layer beneath the earth at one point in time, but at the end of "The age of Gods." it became metaphyiscal.

____

Also, i can't find the talk about layers in Fate/Grand Order NA in camelot arc.

___

In summary, the layers are alternate dimensions and overlapping worlds separated by a defined dimensional boundry.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Escanor, at this point you have to be trolling. That height is for Kiara when she's not grown.

And Jbennet, I'm glad you're conceding to Ea and Enuma Elish being Planet level.

 

[Escanor998]

not really, but is something like that, they are like overlapping realities that exists on different metaphysical planets that uses the different anchors of light around the planet to fasten them and pinch them to the surface of the planet while making near impossible interacting between them

 

[Escanor998]

Escanor, at this point you have to be trolling. That height is for Kiara when she's not grown.
And Jbennet, I'm glad you're conceding to Ea and Enuma Elish being Planet level.

Not really, in all moments, she's somewhat comparable in height to hakuno, the only moments "growing up" are in the NP animation (where she doesn't really grow) and during the Seraph Singularity during Fate/GO (when the **** it will be translated >:v)

 

[JBennett]

Rather I'm nutral about it but I rather want other different feats that support Gil being 5-A but as of now you've yet to proof anything else beyond just repeating the same thing over and over again, so unless you can find another feat the supports gil being 5-A I'm dissagreeing with you.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The layers are higher dimensional in the "Age of man" era. So being able to destroy, or manipulate those boundries is a big feat.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Escanor, at this point you have to be trolling. That height is for Kiara when she's not grown.

And Jbennet, I'm glad you're conceding to Ea and Enuma Elish being Planet level.

Matthew, you've been the one trolling this thread and the biggest reason it's 400+ posts long. You've shown little understanding of the works in question, have been unable to find evidence for your claims and at this point seem to be motivated by pure spite simply because I'm proposing such changes.

 

[JBennett]

If your really serious about this then I suggests you create a new thread to talk about it, your not really contribiting to the topic at hand in either direction rather just taking up room with scans of things we aren't asking for. I personally dissagre with it but I don't haveing anything meaningful to say about it.

 

[Escanor998]

The layers are higher dimensional in the "Age of man" era. So being able to destroy, or manipulate those boundries is a big feat.

Dimensions in nasuverse means that is a metaphisical plane that is outside of normal reality, not like here that a higher dimension is an infinite level of trascendence (that's one of the reasons i'm against Low 1-C Avalon, like for example Tiamat is a 4-dimensional pocket, yet she's not rampaging through the universe destroying everything)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Woah where did that come from. It is very relatable to this thread. I disagree with Multi-continent gilgamesh. Which is that is when people mentioned the layers. I disagree with how the layers are setup. I shown scans supporting that the layers are separated by dimensional boundries. Therefore, they are not sharing the same planet. How does this relate? Becuase Gilgamesh scales to Tiamat. I agree with planet level gilgamesh with EA only.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Matthew, you've been the one trolling this thread and the biggest reason it's 400+ posts long. You've shown little understanding of the works in question, have been unable to find evidence for your claims and at this point seem to be motivated by pure spite simply because I'm proposing such changes.

Do not accuse me of trolling, Regis, please. And do not accuse me of not understanding Fate, as I have presented evidence early on in the thread and it was you who did not accept it seemingly because it came from me.

The reason the revision isn't going anywhere is because frankly you seem to be unable to concede ever.

 

[Escanor998]

Actually, you completely disregard WoG, material books and in-verse statements about how the Earth, Ea, Tiamat, every ******* divine spirit profile you've done, the Moon Cell, Kiara, and authorities works just because you're wanking Gil too much

 

[JBennett]

Even if that was the case Mat Servant Gil withstanding an attack from Kiara should be an outlier then, Servant Gil has shown no feats of durability of Planet Level in previous instalments and it has been shown regulary that AP =/= Dura for Servants. And this is a Servant Version becuase Extra takes place in the near future and not in the distant past so he can't be alive. And "Full power" simply means he's takeing the battle seriously, it doesn't mean he's spontatiously more powerful.

@Mat If that is the case then what's your counter to this then?

 

[RegisNex1232]

You haven't presented anything without first ignoring context and translations to make up your own interpretations. Then you keep repeating it despite not understanding why it isn't applicable, which is pretty close to trolling for no reason.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The layers are higher dimensional in the "Age of man" era. So being able to destroy, or manipulate those boundries is a big feat.

Dimensions in nasuverse means that is a metaphisical plane that is outside of normal reality, not like here that a higher dimension is an infinite level of trascendence (that's one of the reasons i'm against Low 1-C Avalon, like for example Tiamat is a 4-dimensional pocket, yet she's not rampaging through the universe destroying everything)

iirc it was her mud that exist in an infinite 4th dimensional pocket.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I didn't completely disregard any of that Escanor. How can I disregard the games and guides if the reason the characters are on their tiers are from the games and guides (And the mangas and the VNs and the novels etc).

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So Gods, when becoming lessened Divine Spirits and entering said "higher" dimension, not only become straight up weaker but are also entirely unable to interact with the normal world directly.

Higher dimension beings that become higher dimensional when getting weaker and are unable at all to affect a lower dimension... because.

Oh yeah, this doesn't seem spotty.

And Matt, jesus, could you actually pull out something to back up your opinions? You speak of visuals and how it'd be absurd to not take them straight forwardly, while forgetting all the context. Beast Kiara is shown growing enough to pull planets in her gravitational pull... let's entirely forget she considers herself weak compared to Goetia and her strong point is mind hax, she has no skill at all related to growing, and we have her straight up stats, so unless you want to say Heracles is 4-B for sharing the same strength stat, you need to think things a bit. None of her skills even supplement her physical abilities, another telling factor.

Do you know what's also funny? Heaven's Hole Kiara does have a growing up skill from Kingtropea. Another funny thing? Kingtropea's size growing is actually addressed because it actually happens, and she uses the skill. Do you know who also can't use that skill? Kiara, because BB and the others are holding her back. This is the same verse that includes details such as Buddha's NP not being Anti-World but Anti-Mind normally when outside the Moon Cell, and other little clarifications and official WoGs, and you wanna disregard that without a care to favor the visuals? You keep and keep on making me think you are keeping a closed mind for literally no reason and an inablity to change your perspective.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You got it all backwards Lancelot. If you think the ratings come purely from visuals you are sorrely mistaken.

Also this thread is literally 490+ posts long, went absolutely nowhere, and has long derailed into nothing but personal accusations. So I'm closing it.