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We don't, only that anything approaching planet destruction is countered by the Counter Force and similar defense mechanisms. Caster Da Vinci even specifies the term Anti-Planet when describing this.
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Revising Tiamat (and possibly others?)
- Thread starter RegisNex1232
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From what I understand, Beast Kiara is weaker than her Buddha self. Worth noting that Beast Kiara's body is described as a pocket universe.Wokistan said:
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Regarding classifications, they only denote what the NP is targetting, like how Gae Bolg Anti-Unit version targets one person while the Anti-Army targets a bunch of people. They only have the vaguest implications on the NP's potency, which can become meaningless when it is hax.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
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That wasn't really my question though. Tiamat seems to be scaling to Kiara due to Kiara's power being tied to some status the two share, at least how I understand it from the files. I am wondering how accurate Kiara's power coming from that status is, or if she's just strong for unrelated reasons that wouldn't let Tiamat scale.
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Offtopic: But what is the wiki's stance on Interludes? I found that Final Acensions are actually a lore made power up. Gilgamesh used his final ascension to fight Tiamat, and Darius the III in solomon used his final ascension too, and Caster waver had a reaction to it of sorts.
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It's difficult to even suggest that they should scale, given that for the moat part they are quite separate from each otger. Tiamat's authority has been used by BB, which isn't really connected to Kiara. Kiara has her own reasons for her AP.
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Well there's one thing I think needs to be the case imo.
FGO Kiara < CCC Kiara
From the profiles, it appears that Tiamat is being scaled to CCC Kiara, but I think the fact of the matter is CCC Kiara should just be treated as being stronger and upgraded accordingly.
Kiara got her NP feat in FGO after absorbing a minuscule Demon Pillar of Goetia. Goetia deserves an upgrade as well along with Tiamat if this line of thinking continues.
This mistake with the scaling I think is also making it difficult to understand the current ratings even more.
FGO Kiara < CCC Kiara
From the profiles, it appears that Tiamat is being scaled to CCC Kiara, but I think the fact of the matter is CCC Kiara should just be treated as being stronger and upgraded accordingly.
Kiara got her NP feat in FGO after absorbing a minuscule Demon Pillar of Goetia. Goetia deserves an upgrade as well along with Tiamat if this line of thinking continues.
This mistake with the scaling I think is also making it difficult to understand the current ratings even more.
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I found a possible link to her and tiamat. Key word is possible. Her being kiara. The bolded is the possible link.
"
The appearance she takes on after her demonic reincarnation is one of the highlights in CCC (and also a bit far out).
Its formal name is The Third Pleasure Heaven of Deeply Grateful Existence (ÚÜÅÕû£Þç¬Õ£¿þ¼¼õ©ëÕñûµ│òÕ┐½µÑ¢Õñ®).
She is a new god descended from the Covetous Mother Goddess."
"
The appearance she takes on after her demonic reincarnation is one of the highlights in CCC (and also a bit far out).
Its formal name is The Third Pleasure Heaven of Deeply Grateful Existence (ÚÜÅÕû£Þç¬Õ£¿þ¼¼õ©ëÕñûµ│òÕ┐½µÑ¢Õñ®).
She is a new god descended from the Covetous Mother Goddess."
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Living Gilgamesh defeated Kiara, meanwhile Tiamat defeated Enkidu who is pretty much equal to Gil.Wokistan said:
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CCC Gil/Nameless/Tamamo/Nero all beat a Kiara restrained by BB hax. This is in no way justification for actual scaling of Gil to Kiara. Gil the other hand was also beaten by Tiamat as well and his last second shonen appearance to help send Tiamat back to the Sea of Imaginary Numbers required the help of the likes pf Ereshkigal, King Hassan, Merlin and so on.
Unless ypu have anything contradicting this then there's no reason for Gil to scale to Kiara.
Unless ypu have anything contradicting this then there's no reason for Gil to scale to Kiara.
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Didn't they send her back to a "Void" world? Also, when did they restrain her??? I got direct statements of the sakura five not being in the CCC game, but the manga i am not that far in yet.
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Right, it was just BB, got confused with Foxtail and Extra.
Either way, scaling Gil to Kiara isn't possible, and scaling Tiamat to Kiara is iffy as there isn't really a connection that justifies scaling.
Either way, scaling Gil to Kiara isn't possible, and scaling Tiamat to Kiara is iffy as there isn't really a connection that justifies scaling.
Apeironaxim
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Not sure if this helps at all, I just found the fact it mentions a Celestial Body interesting, which might mean it's not strictly an illusionApeironaxim said:
Let me tell you the story of a woman.
"Aah, how lovely----"
Said by a woman with a child in her arms. Humanity are nothing but immature beasts. They feed on greed, drowning on greed, and their greed thawing upon the ephemerial reality. What if someone, someone who has a huge love have their immeasurable love gets rejected?
She happily attained enlightenment and emancipation on each of her own fingers. She, Sessyoin have reached ahead of Heaven and Paradise.
『Aah, how lovely---- Dying just longing for me, these 7 billion people』
Such devilish whispers that drowns on carnality. In the hands of her Celestial Body, helds the baby.
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It's obviously not an illusion. Kiara's been described as a being that exists on the scale of a celestial body and of a solar system and also of a pocket universe.
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Scale =/= actual physical size as by that logic your player Servants are also that big when facing Saver/Kiara and not being drastically smaller.
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Thats a limitation of the game engine, Regis, quite obviously so. No game can render something that big to scale next to your character.
Fate Extra is a freaking PSP game. You cannot expect it to handle scale like that and still be visible.
Fate Extra is a freaking PSP game. You cannot expect it to handle scale like that and still be visible.
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Anyway:
The official description of Kiara's Noble Phantasm does not say it is an illusion. They go out of their way to explain why its visuals are so over the top as she is similar in existence to Saver before describing the absurd scale of Buddhism in general. There is clearly a mental component to it, as they also mention that your individual Servants are affected based on their own intelligence, but there is also clearly a physical component considering both the attack animation itself and the description saying targets "melt". The lack of a statement is not a negative statement, the description not outright saying Kiara grows bigger does not say she definitively cannot, and believing they should do that goes against what the material entries try to do: describe the NP's effects as they are in lore. They don't describe animations because you can just watch them yourself. You'll notice this if you look at the official description of any Noble Phantasm, particularly from F/GO original Servants.
Never is it stated that "Lol the entire NP isn't real it's just an illusion", that is an absurdly narrow interpretation of it that ignores both Fate/Extra being a visual medium and an entire paragraph going into detail on the attack's scale and visuals.
That said, there are some possible upgrades to this. Kiara's materials profile says that "the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III", or CCC Kiara > Beast Kiara. Gilgamesh nevertheless defeats CCC Kiara, and even if Kiara being held back is legit Gil still survives her Noble Phantasm so he'd still be 5-A even then. Furthermore, Beast Kiara says that "Goetia was certainly a Beast possessing great power", and that she's only a weak and infantile Beast in comparison. This should pretty easily put both Tiamat and Goetia at 4-B due to being full-fledged Beasts, as well as living Solomon by scaling.
The official description of Kiara's Noble Phantasm does not say it is an illusion. They go out of their way to explain why its visuals are so over the top as she is similar in existence to Saver before describing the absurd scale of Buddhism in general. There is clearly a mental component to it, as they also mention that your individual Servants are affected based on their own intelligence, but there is also clearly a physical component considering both the attack animation itself and the description saying targets "melt". The lack of a statement is not a negative statement, the description not outright saying Kiara grows bigger does not say she definitively cannot, and believing they should do that goes against what the material entries try to do: describe the NP's effects as they are in lore. They don't describe animations because you can just watch them yourself. You'll notice this if you look at the official description of any Noble Phantasm, particularly from F/GO original Servants.
Never is it stated that "Lol the entire NP isn't real it's just an illusion", that is an absurdly narrow interpretation of it that ignores both Fate/Extra being a visual medium and an entire paragraph going into detail on the attack's scale and visuals.
That said, there are some possible upgrades to this. Kiara's materials profile says that "the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III", or CCC Kiara > Beast Kiara. Gilgamesh nevertheless defeats CCC Kiara, and even if Kiara being held back is legit Gil still survives her Noble Phantasm so he'd still be 5-A even then. Furthermore, Beast Kiara says that "Goetia was certainly a Beast possessing great power", and that she's only a weak and infantile Beast in comparison. This should pretty easily put both Tiamat and Goetia at 4-B due to being full-fledged Beasts, as well as living Solomon by scaling.
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"The reason why this attack's power,visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver.
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas."
Ctrl + F type in Kiara then go to the 8th kiara down.
"This is the anti-planetary Noble Phantasm Kiara gains after her reincarnation.
Angra Mainyu is the most self-serving heinous Noble Phantasm of them all where Kiara uses the world to **********.
Kiara offers her body in a sexual manner to all living things on Earth, including humans, animals, an"
same link as above but its the 5th and 6th mention of Kiara.
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas."
Ctrl + F type in Kiara then go to the 8th kiara down.
"This is the anti-planetary Noble Phantasm Kiara gains after her reincarnation.
Angra Mainyu is the most self-serving heinous Noble Phantasm of them all where Kiara uses the world to **********.
Kiara offers her body in a sexual manner to all living things on Earth, including humans, animals, an"
same link as above but its the 5th and 6th mention of Kiara.
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- #60
The game engine has no connection to actual size depictionss, especially when later games don't display such differences either in boss battles. Apart from the size of Kingprotea, Beasts and such, neither Saver nor CCC Kiara have been depicted as planet size.
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I'd like to point out that EoG Gilgamesh in CCC is the same Final Ascension Gilgamesh that fought Tiamat in Babylon. So, definetly not base gilgmaesh lol.
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Yes they do! The game cannot render something that large and so it leads to size discrepancies.RegisNex1232 said:
I dare you find one game that can render a planet to scale, least of all a low-budget portable game from a decade ago.
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in fate/extral material is explicitly/directly stated that the Game CCC was heavyily impacted by a lack of budget. So, they couldn't go all out, but the Material book describes what they wished they could do.
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Which has no indication of her general AP beyond scaling to Saver, and Tiamat/Gil don't scale to her. There's no physical component shown in her attack beyond taking visuals literally. I mean arguing for Gil taking her attacks when he's being protected by BB interfering in the fight is dumb, especially when it could easily be Nameless, or Nero or Tamamo in his place.
So all you have is speculation, which isn't good enough to support such scaling.
So all you have is speculation, which isn't good enough to support such scaling.
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What exactly is so terribly horribly wrong with using visuals in a visual media?
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Again, unless you have more than "lack of budget" to support Saver and Kiara getting that big, this is pointless as otherwise there is no proof beyond taking visuals literally.
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He isn't. Gil summoned by himself as a Servant vs Tiamat =/= CCC Gil. No headcanons here please.TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
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@Regis Unless you have actual proof that they ARENT that big we have no reason to not use the visuals
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I posted this with a link several times lol. "This is the anti-planetary Noble Phantasm Kiara gains after her reincarnation.
Angra Mainyu is the most self-serving heinous Noble Phantasm of them all where Kiara uses the world to **********."
"The reason why this attack's power, visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver."
So her being Large Planet level is feasible. (is that how you spell it lol? feasible? or Feesible?)
Angra Mainyu is the most self-serving heinous Noble Phantasm of them all where Kiara uses the world to **********."
"The reason why this attack's power, visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver."
So her being Large Planet level is feasible. (is that how you spell it lol? feasible? or Feesible?)
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Because Extra, GO and such are also literary media as well, and visuals are generally exaggerated to look cool and not depict realistic attacks.WeeklyBattles said:
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There is no proof either way, only comparisons of the scale of influence to Saver. That, as well as Saver not being the size of a planet supports visuals being exaggerated. He's bigger, but going by Extra and Last Encore, he's not that big.WeeklyBattles said:
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Not using visuals in a visual media is hilarious. Ever heard of the concept of eye-witness in court?
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If its not obvious btw im very much against a downgrade
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Not relevant. Nasu has given us a set level for Saver not restricted by being a Servant and Kiara, both of whom are far above the likes of Gil. Tiamat is difficult to judge as we have no real idea of how she compares to Saver or CCC Kiara.
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I like how you ignored my large post explaining clearly the ratings.
"We have no idea how she compares"
We literally do, you're just in denial. You outright ignore any feat that contradicts your pre-established viewpoint.
"We have no idea how she compares"
We literally do, you're just in denial. You outright ignore any feat that contradicts your pre-established viewpoint.
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Gil straight-up pulls out Ea while fighting her, by the way.
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Kiara is only compared to Saver in terms of scale and influence. Nothing that indicates either of them being that big. Comparing Tiamat to Kiara through Goetia is even more strange when Goetia actually needed extra power and prep to put a massive hole in the Earth and Tiamat vs Goetia without AAS is difficult to figure out.
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Us seeing them that big implies theyre that big and there is nothing that contradicts them being that big
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Which leads into problems with Ea being 5-A and Servant Gil being gimped by being a Servant and such not being strong enough to pull off 5-A stuff.Dargoo Faust said:
Tiamat is far above the likes of Ishtar and Quetz, doesn't make the Earth by herself and in general has no proper reasoning in her profile right now. She is completely reliant on scaling.
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